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RE: Payouts Over $50 vs. Flags Applied (Feb. 18-24)
You know my opinion @krnel which makes me a weak character in your mindset "I want positivity here and whatever concerns anyone should be discussed behind curtains and is in my opinion nothing for public profiles."
And to remind you I loved most of your posts before this discussion started!
I have only one question - no hang on two questions.
- On the maths (I am surely not as skilled as others) - could you please explain the values of the columns so I can understand them perfectly?
- What is your inner aim by doing these posts? Improving steemit? Make the platform more fair for everyone? Ok - in the end that have been 4 questions. I just want to state again - no matter if you are right with flagging fair or not! Public posting is damaging the entire infrastructure - newbies will leave when they read the entire war scenarios - others will not join when they hear about a war of a relatively small but promising network / community. So what do you want to achieve by your posts? Say it in 3 sentences - it might be what e ALL want :-).
Even it is Social Media - can we not try to create an open table discussion via zoom video conference or similar tools and agree something that benefits everyone and redirects negative vibes away from the platform?
I agree but this has been going on since the inception of the platform, at least for half a year since that is how long I was here. I'm hoping for a resolution so even if I agree with your point and I do, it's already past the gates, it was in the hands of the whales to take responsibility for their votes and they disregarded that. They seem to think that the system is at fault and it's not their problem, so the system takes the blame for everyone.
A resolution will be tough to get and nobody will back out. I do think that they won't care for this post tho. Just a guess. back to your points, open discussions have been going on for quite a while, this topic re-surges every month or so, the problem is that it's all up to the "people" and smooth and bernie don't mind being questioned since their power makes them immune to what others think. They are sorry to flag you, but they do, so not really. I agree we all have different standards, but having such a disregard for other people is damaging to see.
Would it be better to be kept hush hush and resolved, probably so, but it hasn't to this point, so I can't judge krnel any longer for trying to hold people accountable for their actions. Insert spiderman quote :D
I agree that it is getting very negative here lately. It is draining emotionally.
I have been flagged unfairly too (by transisto), so I understand the hurt. I had never made it to trending before (been here since August) and the first time I did he flagged me with his million steem account. And then flagged the very next post too.
But the approach that I have taken is to shrug it off as best as I can,
and to realize that for right now at least Steem is the Wild West with no Sheriff and no Court house.
Any bandit can rob you at any time they want and you have to accept it.
I don't like it, but I have decided to accept it and stay involved in Steemit.
Either the developers change it or they don't. Like you said, it is good to push the developers for a change but not constantly in such a public manner. The constant complaining isn't going to change jerks into compassionate people. And they aren't breaking any rules. The developers set the rules and that's the way that it is right now. Steemit is NOT FAIR and expecting it to be fair creates more drama than I care for.
I'll be thrilled if the developers change this in the future. But everyone must decide for themselves if they want to be here on Steemit or not.
@transisto has flagged me too on multiple occasions. No big deal.
You do realize that he invested HUGE (seriously huge) sums of cash into the platform. In my opinion this gives him the right to up/down vote however he sees fit to push steemit in the direction he chooses. Again, not a big deal but if it is to you, BUY your stake in the platform.
I suppose that's true, mynameisbrian. I could have made a case for why I did not consider it fair, but since he transisto does not leave comments when he flags there is no way to do that. Which is a big part of the frustration. He may not have considered that I had never been in trending before, after consistently putting out articles that take lots of effort since August and that many people have said they appreciate and like. If if needed to be chastised by a flag, you would think that an explanation would be in order so that I might know what the poor behaviour is supposed to be or why my posts are never on a rare occasion entitled to be in the trending category.
But like I've said, I've decided to shrug it off and hope that the system changes. I talked about it only because others are talking about it, but the sting has past.
If Steemit developers truly think that this type of flagging on whims if you have invested big bucks is what is good for Steemit, than so be it. It's their company and I can decide to stay or not.
It would be nice though if each flag was accompanied by a reason, maybe a list of reasons, and maybe a spot to respond with info that the flagger may not have considered or known.
Also, I've toughened up I suppose because some people consider my posts to be controversial and have flagged me before over simple disagreement with what I'm writing about. They were usually minnows and a couple of times dolphins, so the money wasn't the issue but just the feeling of being slapped in the face for respectfully asking people to consider something that they would rather completely censor.
I respect the flaggers who at least explain themselves.
I usually answer anyone asking why they got flagged, I don't need too and often they reason is not well received. I've read you message by pure luck, Next time reply to one of my comment or writte at anytime my name as @Transisto and I should receive a notification.
Good suggestion that you've had to provide a field to explain the downvote, I'm currently writing a post with listing my guidelines for up/downvotes. For me a flag is just a downvote, nothing personal.
This is what I like to see. When I first arrived to steemit even though there were "no rules" had a good understanding and respect for the reasoning behind flags by whales and therefore learned to avoid them (without having to censor myself). But over time things changed and I wrote a post many months ago suggesting that people write a post like the one you're writing. Rather than have to repeatedly explain yourself for how you vote, it would be great if everyone (or at least the large stake holders) set their own rules and made them clear to everybody so that we can react more civilly to the down vote.
https://steemit.com/myrules/@beanz/my-vote-my-rules-whales-set-the-rules-before-penalising-abuse
Thanks. I will read your new post when you finish it.
I think that more communication is key to helping people understand what has happened to them when they have been flagged, especially people new to Steemit.
It's not the best idea to let one's imagine run wild with scenarios, which it may sometimes do when first flagged, especially if new to Steemit. Some people have even screamed censorship over a single flag, even a minnow flag, because they didn't have any information on why it is happening.
Hi @mynameisbrian - It is very difficult to consider putting money into Steem when you can see these huge stakeholders and how they are treating people, the system flaws and the lack of respect for the end-users.
If the only reason right now to buy is to negate the whales... a person is going to have to purchase a whole lot of steem, I've done the math and the amount of stake one would have to buy to gain influence, would still not have much payoff in ROI.
Of course there is speculation - but without the platform, Steem is just another (I am going to grow up some day and be Bitcoin)
It's draining to see someone post for months and some whales decide to reward a content creator to their choosing at whatever voting percentage they choose, and 1 or 2 people have an opinion that a post is "overrewarded." Those individuals do not speak for the community.
It's like I donated to charity and some assholes come and say, "I think the charity has too much donations, let me take an amount from the donations so I can distribute how I want."
Neither are the content creators who post 4 times a day. People need to stop coming up with some bs justification.
Stop driving on the wrong side of the road!
yes bitcoinparadise. It drained me too when I was unfairly flagged and lost rewards.
But I find it much less draining now that I've changed my expectations to be that Steemit is NOT FAIR! I know it's not fair and now I don't sweat the small stuff.
I have said before that if the developers aren't going to change it to make it more fair (which I really hope that they do) than they should put a big post on the front page and communicate very clearly that Steemit is not fair -- you will be flagged and your money/Steem will be stolen -- so get used to it if you want to be here.
When you don't have expectations, the stress goes down greatly.
Oh I stress because I actually care about it when wrongdoings happen. It happens without a lot of us knowing it. Doing nothing and hoping the developers will solve it only had it continue to this point. I expect a place for content creators not to get ripped off. We expect money because that's how it's advertise, earn from blogging.
Where is the logic in that. Get too much popularity and support and you are punished. You guys really need to ask, Are content creators that are getting flagged doing anything wrong? Nope.
I agree bitcoinparadise! I'm on your side. I have felt the way that you feel, but decided that it's not worth my stress level going up so high.
The developers have to decide if they will fix their project or let it all slip away by not changing the system.
Peace!
p.s. I have enough stress already trying to change the world so that children will stop being poisoned and damaged.
Thanks @canadian-coconut (cool name btw!) - i understand you got hurt by the early flags so i get @krnel too - no one likes to be down voted. The Wild West comparison might be valid - it is new, it is beta - so we all learn I think, which is also the cool part of this. I saw similar situations by public complaining on other platforms which formed enemies - that was a reason I said this. I am not talking from the blue, i have experience two platform that were running as THE FIRSTS from the edge, everyone loved each other, great community that started but after a while people had issues (which is normal) - and the killer was that everyone was discussing everything what they hated on their public walls. That is the reasons I am pushing for positive vibes - there are things to be discussed and improved for sure! But that should be handled in direct contact with the Marshalls :-) - if they are available, and they should be. Thanks for the reply! And forgive my crap English and some typos.
You've framed it quite nicely, I see it as a medieval feudal system so far, but it's the same in a way :D
Check out the new post where I address the concentration of power, both in whales who upvote, and whales who downvote. We need decentralization of power to resolve both.
https://steemit.com/steemit/@krnel/community-decisions-to-establish-rules-vs-it-s-in-the-code-law-and-the-battle-for-decentralization
The negative must be faced. I'm in the thick of it, I feel it hard, and its draining every day. I will keep at this until change is going to happen. It sucks that transisto does it too, this reward-policing seems to be growing more... The concentration of power needs to be addressed finally, or Steemit will die as I see it...
The community needs to set the rules for how the community functions, and the code can be changed. Otherwise, Steemit will likely die from a lack of recognizing the issue of concentration of power.
@krnel
I wish you would just discuss it in the witness chat channel as smooth is there too isn't he?
how is this helping the community?
perhaps this post would help you calm down. I don't think writing about it in series would help you convince them and I don't think it is helping you either. These post series are making you look bad - it's like .. this flagging overrewarded content has been going on for weeks and its not just smooth nor transisto that are doing it there's more .. but when it happened to you that's when you complained about it.
Yes, when it affects someone personally, that's when they are more motivated to do something about it.
This started with me, in January. And then grew to other people, and I kept getting "overrewarded" and flagged, and then after 6-7 time I had enough as the payout "overrewarding" "limits" kept shrinking, it was obvious something wasn't right. So I spoke up about it.
People have tried to get this balance of power and concentration of power issue resolve in the past, but to no avail. I decided to do this because I have HIGH REP and have more visibility for people to see something is going wrong, even though most ppl know about it nothing seems to be done... hehe. I knew I would put a target on my back. This needs to be done now before thinking of "growing" and getting more people.
I read that months ago, and I don't agree with some of the points listed. I get your point though ;)
@krnel I respect that it's your right to do this but I don't agree with your approach and I hope you don't take it against me. I don't see it would help the community - it's creating havoc and a ripple of ranting posts related to it. You're not really trying to create a revolution against one person are you? If more posts about it come out and they all go on trending I and the many would surely have a hard time convincing our friends to join and those who already did may also stop cause mud throwing is never healthy - if we treat Steemit as a family perhaps it would be better to keep our family's skeleton in its closet. Perhaps we could create a chat channel dedicated for only this and all those who are concerned must answer any questions thrown in them. I have thought of writing you in the chat earlier on, too but I guess this is also okay. I hope you calm down. For the love of you I hope you can forgive me if I have been straightforward about my comment.
This is a community wide issue. We here a lot of second hand reports about what someone says in chat. They are often conflicting accounts. At least here it is on the blockchain and people cannot deny what they did or did not say.
But the community can only make suggestions, right? And it's up to the developers to listen to us or not and change the code or not.
I think that it is great to make suggestions.
I'm just saying that unless the changes are made, we have to accept that we have decided to join the Wild West where nothing is fair. Keep pushing for changes but take the emotion out of it if we can. If emotions gets to an unhealthy level, I think that it is best to leave "the Wild West" as there is nothing holding us here.
But perhaps you are good with the high emotional levels involved in fighting this fight. It may be worth it to you, especially if you don't have other more important fights going on in your life right now.
Many people are already emotionally on the edge just from dealing with their lives outside of Steemit. And it is not healthy to expect things to be fair here in a place that they chose to join, but they don't need to be here ... if the expectations of forcing things to be fair on Steemit pushes them over the edge.
Honestly, just seeing all of this constant talk about the situation here on Steemit lately has drained me a fair bit even though I decided that it should not. I probably should not even read posts like this or respond to them.
In reality I DO CARE a lot about what happens to Steemit ... however, I should not allow myself to care so much if it interferes with living a healthy life.
What does "The negative must be faced" mean ?
Positivity and no more negative issues happens when the issues and negatives are faced and resolved, not ignored.
I don't know why the payouts are separated at times, the first is the payout amount, and the second is the pending payout. It might be because someone upvoted it after the initial payout, but I checked some and it's not the case. I don't know why it's like that even when the payout is done and there is no additional pending payout for 30 days. I don't get it. SO I have to show both columns.
The community needs the information to be aware, so that the community can come to a consensus to agree to change things. I'm all fro the community getting actively involved in understanding issue and resolving them, not leaving it up to the stakeholders or witnesses that might be out of touch with whats going on. Many of them don't post and aren't "active" on the site.
Public posting is required for the issue to be addressed. Then the "image" of Steemit can be healed. The more people get involved to change the problems, the quicker things can get back to normal. I understand the issues you bring forth, but information needs to be made public for everyone to see whats going on.Awareness if the key to change and creating a real positive environment. Hiding from the negative in hopes that things magically fix themselves while thinking you don't have to be involved, isn't going to create a more responsible community of people who care to resolve issues that are happening. It just keep people separate from the decision making process to affect change.
You can read more of the issue to understand here: https://steemit.com/steemit/@krnel/community-decisions-to-establish-rules-vs-it-s-in-the-code-law-and-the-battle-for-decentralization
The power imbalance needs to be addressed. Thanks for the feedback.
Thanks @krnel - agree wth you in some points but to raise in public includes danger as not the majority of users can deal with the facts as you can (based on your intelligence (- act!). The normal user is just frightened and confused when people have a war, they feel insecure - one might say ok they might not be ready for this platform then. I am checking your other post now - before reading it I just wanted to say, we need a balance not only between steemit power holders and minnows / dolphins but also between people like you that are highly educated versus the normal user like me and coming from a not so developed area in the world that might post a nice photo or story from his home (maybe not in perfect English) and then gets bashed.