You are viewing a single comment's thread from:

RE: Why I’m quitting teaching part 11/11: Five ways in which mainstream education doesn't 'fit' society

in #steemiteducation7 years ago (edited)

I can agree with most of what you have said here but without a greater knowledge of the differences between the UK and here (Australia), I can't be certain if I agree about the bit about the early years framework. We have a framework that by the looks of those statements sounds very similar (it covers all early learning / childcare though, not just 3+ but obviously the way these skills present in a baby is different to a 3 year old) and we mostly look at it in a positive way by seeing how the children are developing in line with these important developmental areas and also as a whole group working on helping the children to develop important skills, but to really help a child, sometimes we not only have to look at strengths and the leaps and bounds they are making with development, but also at the areas where they appear to be struggling, so we can implement activities to help them develop in those areas and likely be more happy and handle social situations etc easier both now and in the future. It is great to encourage kids to use their strengths, but we would be doing them a disservice if they were struggling in an area and we ignored it rather than helping them. It's not really about "labelling" children though, as it is to help them develop. Also when it does come to labelling (like when you go beyond this to talking about disabilities etc), that can be positive or negative depending on how it affects the person and in the case of the child, the parent. Some people finally understand and can get help and getting "labelled" is the best thing that ever happened to them and some people take labels and go down a downwards spiral because of it instead. Labels on the level you are talking like "needs help communicating with others" shouldn't be presented as a label and if they are doing that, they are doing it wrong as it should just be an area to work on, not a label, but the intention is likely good, like how I stated how we help children with both further enhancing their strengths AND improving upon the areas they are struggling with. I've worked in inclusive support before, and in that area, you really need to focus on both and you do need to identify the areas that need help so there's no way around that really. The Early Years Learning Framework doesn't require us to go academic in childcare, even preschools in childcare, which is good as academics shouldn't be forced on children early (but play based activities that happen to teach language and early maths skills are great and often get used), though some do focus on "school readiness" and push academics a bit, but it isn't required and we shouldn't be pushing it, because the Early Years of actual school should be more hands on or play based, rather than overly academic too, but unfortunately that often (not always but often) isn't the case and our curriculum from the year before year one onwards makes it hard to do so unfortunately. I love the Early Years Curriculum here and I've worked with it quite a bit (and the curriculum for OSHC too which is similar but more age appropriate for school aged children), but our actual schooling system isn't the worst but is far from the best too. We should be looking towards places like Finland.

There are alternatives though. I wouldn't touch Steiner / Waldorf with a ten foot pole, but when done properly (as the name isn't trademarked so anyone can claim they are Montessori but not really be following it correctly) Montessori aligns well with what we know about child development and is based on scientific observation of children, rather than nonsense, and some of the time even aligns better with child development than traditional schooling systems and is way more individualised, so I think Montessori, when done correctly, is a suitable alternative if people can afford it, and I'd consider sending my future children to one that is nearby us. It actually kind of sucks that both Steiner and Montessori are alternative as it means they get lumped in together, but Montessori aligns with child development and came about through observation of children and is a legitimate option but Steiner is just nonsense about stuff like spirits and it is full of racism.

Montessori works on 3 years in one classroom, rather than everyone in the classroom being the same age, and is more individualised and tends to have bigger classes than what you are describing but has a teacher and an assistant so the ratio is actually lower and having two people allows for a different teaching style. Montessori schools typically don't have homework either. The kids are expected to get stuff done though, just through an individualised plan (it's not like some say "the kids do whatever they want" - I studied part of a "Learning Management" degree at one point and they tried to crap on Montessori by saying that but not really understanding or explaining how it really worked and at that point I didn't know much about it either - the children have a lot more choice and the education is more individualised but they still meet the curriculum but in a different more flexible way and they must meet their end of the plan they and the teacher make together).

That said, people must also check these things out first. I worked a day in a Montessori childcare centre (which only really makes sense above 3 anyway as the Montessori system starts at 3 years old but centres apply it to babies anyway) and it was terrible and I didn't even agree morally with how they did some things, but that isn't a reflection on Montessori but just a reflection on that centre. As I said, it isn't regulated or trademarked. No matter what school or childcare people are sending their kids to they really need to do their research. Don't assume because a system is good, it means individual schools and childcare centres are good.

Sort:  

Thanks for the comment - I basically agree with what you say about soft labels and hard labels... but what makes me cynical is that, well, my parents generation generally grew up into capable adults, my generation generally grew up to be capable adults, which suggests we just don't need these frameworks!

I do accept what you say about there being very general guidelines and possibly useful though, and I guess they can be applied sensitively and have a use.

Good distinction between S and M, I was aware that the latter was 'sounder' but TBH I don't know much about the difference between the two.

You should make a whole post of this!

Not everyone in those generations turned out capable, happy and healthy. People just don't hear much about the people who didn't. You're right though, that we don't need these frameworks. They do help though (or at least the one I have dealt with does, when used well). I don't think it just comes down to if we need something. If we can improve something and that makes life better in some way, even if maybe it isn't at the point of being needed, we should do it. Sometimes we might stuff up and make stuff worse, but the worst thing we can do is not try to move forward. If a child is struggling socially for example, if intervening helps them with that issue earlier than they would solve it themselves and saves them years of struggling to make friends and maybe even being bullied, I think it is worth trying to help and prevent that harm even if they would have solved it themselves by one point, but later than if we helped. If we could successfully help them with those skills earlier (or alternatively find out there's a deeper reason for the struggle they are having), the journey would be a lot nicer for them and the journey wouldn't have hurt them along the way as much. They might still reach the same endpoint themselves where they work the social stuff out (they might not too) so you could say it isn't needed, but maybe they took a longer time to get there and they suffered socially and emotionally during the time it took to develop those skills. In that case, helping would still be the right thing to do, even with the same end result (for those skills - the end result mentally will still be different if they copped a lot of bullying etc along the way).

Also worth noting is that a lot of adults have struggled with things and then their kid get diagnosed with an actual disability or disorder and they discover they have it too, and for some finding out about themselves is the best thing that ever happened to them as they understand where their struggles come from now and they know it's not just a personality trait flaw etc and a lot of help and support (therapy, medications, psychology etc) can come to child and parent in this situation, so that shows that labels definitely can help at the disability level and also that not all adults are finding life easy and feeling capable, happy and healthy. It also doesn't help when people think certain disabilities don't even exist or only affect certain groups of people too.

I think we definitely need labels as a label can be what turns a life around for the better. As for the frameworks, we don't need them but they are a useful tool. We should be aiming to improve on things, either way, regardless of what tools we use.

I think things worked okay in the generations that are now adults, but I also think there is a lot of room for improvement. Things can work, but they can also work really well.

Maybe if labels are used sensitively they have a place!

A one sentence reply with an exclamation mark. That's concerning. I hope this hasn't turned out like Facebook conversations sometimes do, where people mistake discussion for argument. Normally people are happy to discuss on Steemit and Reddit, unlike Facebook. Either way, the response seems to be one to shut down the conversation rather than discuss.

I hope you know that I wasn't arguing with you and I'm sorry if it came across that way. I was addressing what you said in your earlier reply and discussing what I thought was an interesting topic with you. You said about whether we need or it or not, so I was agreeing with you that it wasn't needed, but simply pointing out that it can help, and also pointing out that "we all turned out alright" isn't actually true - that's actually survivor bias and some people have struggled within the groups that turned out alright. I have had absolutely awesome discussions about topics of interest, even when disagreeing to a degree with a person, on places like this and reddit where no-one is arguing or unhappy but there is a back and forth that goes like "Fair enough, I agree about .... but I think x" or "yeah but what about these factors" but unfortunately sometimes those conversations don't eventuate or people think you are arguing and either a) try and shut the conversation down or b) think you are arguing with them and attack you instead (as evidence by instead of disagreement and discussion, insults and nastiness etc). B rarely happens anywhere but facebook, but it still can happen on other platforms. Speaking of schooling, I don't know why they teach you in school how to discuss and debate (not argue) in school if not many people in the real world are interested in real discussion and even take discussion to be arguing.

I'm sorry if it came across as arguing and you felt the need to shut the conversation down. On my end we were having a discussion, so I addressed the points you said and basically said "I agree about the need thing, but we can do better and we should do better with each generation". I just wanted to discuss a point of interest and I thought that's what we doing.
Sorry if it seemed like an argument, that really wasn't the aim. It's sad to see this conversation cut off either way. Sorry if it came across wrong.

If you weren't thinking I was arguing with you, or trying to shut down the conversation, and simply didn't have much to say, then yes, I agree that used sensitively labels may have their place and I'm sorry to have misunderstood your reply.

To be honest I was just feeling a bit brain dead after a week at work and on my phone at the time as I still am which is a barrier to typ8ng. I WILL reply with a more deserving reply later this afternoon!

Have faith!

And I do tend to overuse exlamation marks!

Glad to hear it wasn't my conversation coming across the wrong way. That was what concerned me the most. I completely understand feeling brain dead and not being able to type much, I was just hoping it wasn't due to some misunderstanding of my previous comment. Glad to hear you didn't see my discussion as argument.

No no, not at all, just a bad time of the week/ term.

Bad time of the term set to continue and probably worsen for the rest of May!

Thankfully today's looking good.

Loading...

Coin Marketplace

STEEM 0.21
TRX 0.26
JST 0.040
BTC 101164.87
ETH 3696.45
USDT 1.00
SBD 3.19