Moving to hive
Fuck you Justin, we're moving to Hive.
6 years ago in #steemit by practicalthought (65)
$278.09
- Past Payouts $278.09
- - Author $209.01
- - Curators $69.07
Moving to hive
Fuck you Justin, we're moving to Hive.
And the thief seals his theft:
Haejin, I just had a look at his wallet and am going to hold off just yet on making a post. I noticed in the sceenshot that I took for the post I was going to write that he has left 3,144.986 Steem in his wallet. Added with the Steem being powered down and interest earned on that Steem he could still cover his debt with you. Until his next transfer that would make it impossible, I can't say he has taken his next step in his theft.
I notice that his hatred of you compels him to troll you and your wife, which is another testament to his character, and am wondering if he plans to give you the money back but spend the next 3 months taunting you with it as he jabs in his pathetic bitterness. Or at least that is perhaps his plan for now. Being of low character, if he comes across another hard time I am sure he will cross that line and send out some of your share. But for now, he has not sent it out yet.
Not that it will mitigate any of the words being said, but I am sorry that he taunts you and has found some support for it. Water rises to its own level and he is showing us those of like character as they flock to his side with support.
I'm sorry to see he chose to keep it. While it became obvious after the first power down and he still hadn't sent that back to you, I was hopeful that he realized that many here saw through his attempts at justification to be a thief.
I still get people showing up on this thread defending him and attacking you, as though it is ok since they don't like you. Lowlife scumbags with no moral compass.
I am guessing that kaliju decided that he was incapable of building a viable business without you doing the work, and that he would profit most from stealing your money since he isn't cut out for business. I'm sorry that you got betrayed after your kindness to him. Helping him the way you did before the partnership even formed. Mentoring him and financially backing him when in truth he was not needed. He says in his Dstors profile "Haejin stole me" but sadly the truth is he sold himself for your Steem.
deepcrypto is Binance. It may be to late, but maybe you can contact them and give them a link to this post. It has proof he stole it, and they have taken actions showing that if one has proof of stolen crypto they will take it from the thief.
https://www.ccn.com/binance-foils-cryptopia-hacker-by-freezing-stolen-crypto/
I will write up a follow up tomorrow on this, although I doubt he will have a change of heart. I imagine he will either cash it out to pay his bills and disappear from Steemit, or send some of it back to a new account that won't have the shame of his theft attached to it.
@dstors is a failed venture until some credibility restored
Until this is cleared up dstors are not looking good... ( I don't really know enough, to be honest)
Right is right, like you say - irrelevant of the character of the guy who has been ''cheated' (if he has)...
If they 'pulled a fast one', they will be doomed...
Based on statements made in this post here by kaliju
https://steemit.com/dcommerce/@kaliju/haejin
which I grabbed some of my screenshots from, as well as looking at their transactions (which doesn't verify all of it because of Binance transfers partially) and the fact Haejin is so adamant seems to make this pretty cut and dried. He spells out in the one screen shot I shared the conditions he "might" return the Steem. Nothing to return if you didn't take it.
I am shocked this hasn't doomed them already, but they are effectively running a bot service now for those who delegated to them as shows in their comments which I also shared a screenshot of.
HEY! LISTEN. What are you talking about really!? Bot service? ! I SPECIFICALLY said that this is to tie you guys over until we release. Customer service, maybe? Are you delegating? You're starting to piss me off man, I'm nice to a point. This is not cool. like I said, it is NONE of your business how I handle Haejin or what business I have with him. You think just because I'm nice you can ride on my weak spots? I'm also a human being and right now I'm feeling pretty fucking paranoid about who is who, as far as I know, you could be in cahoots with him plotting. How do I know you're not chatting behind my back for whatever reason? Be men all of you and handle it directly, privately, by writing me an email or contacting directly. Fishing for upvotes by stirring drama in public and look it worked! I'm out of here.
@kaliju
Wow, you take the cake. I addressed you two days ago about my primary concern, which was it kills your trust level if you are stealing others money. I don't know Haejin, and if you knew shit about me you would know better than to say something like that. Unlike many here I donate a good portion of my earnings, just check my transactions. You will also notice I have never interacted with Haejin.
Your imagining I am in "cahoots" as you say reminds me of the story of the Tell Tale Heart.
It was just a week ago I was going to bat for you based on credibility I had awarded you based on some who have been vouching for you. I tried very hard to help you salvage whatever could be. I am lost at how you think this is ok. But you won't have to worry about me. After this post, I will be shaking your venture from my feet. As I said in my post, if you can do this with his money out of anger, I know how you could treat mine if you held it from any potential buyers.
I went to bat for you man.
Hey thanks for the post, I didn't even know this all was still boiling. Good to know.
It seems, will boil for a long time
I was in support of him too, a week ago...
Thanks for pointing this post out to me.
This applies to me also if I was to say the exact same sentence to YOU.
Let's not worry about buyers as it's all going to be p2p and with no middle man, thankfully. As for the batting, I will be fine on my own and deal with things as I always have. I NEVER run and take things that are not mine. But I also can't sit quite in the face of all the allegations and lecturing - it is personally stressful to read (it just comes up when someone mentions dstors) and this is not helping Haejin either as all stems from his impatience and running it publically. He's going to try to smear me here AND take legal action? When I fight back I'm like wild fire - nothing survives and he will earn that to his surprise pretty soon. Keep it up.
Non of that is answering the allegations leveled by @haejin though, is it?
...they seem pretty simple questions, from what I see...
I thought you were supposed to be structuring a business model?
This sounds unhinged.
You are doing yourself no favors matey ( i was on your side a week ago)
Allegations can be left at that. Here's his chance to turn me into a bad guy and undo himself. He needs this drama as can be seen from his desperation. Cheap tactics If you ask me, but can be effective when manipulating crowd's opinion. And manipulation is what he's good at, trust me I would know first.
If you have taken / withheld his money without him committing any fraud , then you become the bad guy.
Not the kind of thing you can get a business of the ground, not with that hanging around your neck.
Transparency is the key.
No he isn't good at that at all. He's been on the blockchain for a long time and almost no one likes him.
We grudgingly accept he can do what he wants with his stake.
His very presence has kept others from investing.
You keep blaming everyone else for your behavior and emotions. I don't think you are cut out to run a business yet. Once you get your emotions under control you might have skills, it's unclear at this point.
You do realize you are talking to @practicalthought?
You do realize the standing he has standing on steemit, in terms of integrity?
Obviously not.
You do realize what you are doing by replying to him like this....?
wow....just...wow...
You do realize that I'm also person with my own story, right? This is the first ever conflict I had on steem but I'm not about to be used and say "oh I'm sorry lords of steemit, who am I compared to you, please forgive me". I am the one being poked here and I don't appreciate it.
The thief cries "I'm a human too". Who didn't realize you're a person too, with your own story? Clealy, you think someone is to blame for dehumanizing you otherwise why make it a point repeatedly you fucking thief? You stole, return the fucking money and die in obscurity, nobody that I see is queening up for your patronizing appologies.
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just asking for clarification on the claims made by @hejin - it's not an emotive argument, just facts..
Dear @dstors
I don't know you very well guys and I really don't like @H.
But I must admit that your comments and the way you talk to @practicalthought is going to damage @dstors heavily. Your PR is going to be crushed if you won't change your attitude.
You're 100% wrong here. What you said is your Xmas wish. We can all wish that other people would not get involved and ruin our businesses. But that's what is happening now and you better address the problem in right manners or your reputation will be crashed.
That would be only good for you. That's the thing about blockchain. Privacy is less. Transparency is more. And people will use it to their advantage.
Yours
Piotr
When I saw this, I just thought...wow...just ...wow...
I've had nothing to do with either of them until this, but he has more than shot himself in the foot with this kind of attitude.
Very true @lucylin
One doesn't need to know other person well to be able to recognize wrong attitude and trouble coming.
Yours
Piotr
sorry- this was in reply to something else matey! oops! lolol
To discuss logic and critical thinking?
Dissecting arguments is something that you perceive as 'trouble coming'? Wow.
The aversion to doing this very things will be the number one downfall of this platform (imo).
The age of postmodernism is dying and those that cling onto it - and also any platforms that support such 'logic'.
'Leftist' platforms (I use the term 'leftist' to embrace any authoritarian condoning position, irrelevant of where on the political spectrum someone lies) .... have a very big chance of being ignored in the future - in favor of platforms where logical conversation is embraced and not seen 'as trouble' but as an opportunity to learn and expand ones mind.....which is best done through philosophical discourse (imo).
you're welcome!
ohm @lucylin
I believe there is some misunderstanding happening. If you feel like Im challenging you then please accept my apology.
Which court would that be? The court of public opinion? To me the theft is less interesting than the legal grey area of crypto. We are entering a realm where people can't be prosecuted.
What is @dstors? Who is @dstors? If someone is found to be in possession of the private key does that make them legally responsible for the actions of the account? What if it's just the posting key?
We are entering an age of opt-in governance, and stuff like this is only going to make less sense as time goes on. This is just the tip of the iceberg.
The Ethereum Classic community makes the argument that the DAO hack wasn't theft, or if it was then it wasn't worth prosecuting. Code-is-law governance will be an option for everyone.
The court depends on the Jurisdiction and where the plaintiff choses the venue. The defendant could get his straw man attacked in his native/current KR jurisdiction OR in the plaintiffs native/current jurisdiction, either way, Fraud is Fraud, theft is theft. The DOA hack not being theft isn't an argument. An argument is simply if a is b and b is c then a is always c, a proposition followed by other supportive propositions leading to a conclusion, not just a proposition, not only an assertion. In terms of ownership it doesn't matter that the keys were in the car, it doesn't matter how the founds were compromised, because theft is INTENTION and PRODUCTS/ACTS.
ETC does not have an argument, they have a marginal and dare I say fringe opinion at most on why a HF should or shouldn't happen, or as you put it "if it was theft it wasn't worth prosecuting", which is embarrassingly only support of the theft, nothing more, no reasoning or explanation could ever manifest for "not worth prosecuting".
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I think the argument for ETC is pretty simple. The hacker followed the rules. You don't reverse immutability on the main chain because someone fucked up a custom smart contract.
The same logic applies to privacy. You don't take away privacy because a small minority of people are going to use that privacy to break the law. The problems created by taking away privacy are far bigger than the ones that exist. Sometimes doing nothing is the smartest course of action.
That being said I think I would have been on team Ethereum over ETC if I had been around when it happened. Community consensus is the new law. We're forging the ability to bend or break the law for relevant exceptions. A middle ground needs to be forged because both sides of the spectrum have serious consequences.
Immutability is worthless if theres a gaping hole in the underlying or overlying infrastructure built on the chain that allows people to basically cheat and steal funds out of others, that's why ETC have no argument, no logic and only a fringe opinion/baseless assertion that Code Is Law because there's no relevant explanation why and how immutability is above all else and that's why it's only assertion. That's why there's a maxim of law that says For every Rule or Law, there is an exception, because rules and laws aren't devoid of logic, ethics, or sensibility. It doesn't make sense to say that "Reality allows it" when it's a matter of ethics or morality and in the same way it's utter nonsense to affirm that Immutability is above all else, especially when the question is "when should the blockchain be edited, reverted or modified" to which the only acceptable and sensible answer should be Whenever a consensus forms (observe how, not why).
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Edit
Sorry about the double comments and wanted to add that the only exception I see to Whenever consensus forms is exactly what ETC is: when a fringe few would rather die in obscurity instead of considering it an ethical problem as opposed to what's allowed by reality so to speak (observe why, not how).
The idea of democracy is beautiful, in nature one doe stands up, signaling that it is thirsty and wants to head to the watering hole, then another joins, and another, and as soon as a majority forms they all get up and go, but then when democracy is used to empower certain groups and violate others it creates the exploitable positions that make democracy redundant at best but usually destructive to freedom and life. The reason democracy exists is to chose a specific course of action in regards to generally how but also why a group of people decide they ought to combine their efforts to fulfill a communal objective. That's why democracy works and is legitimate for ETH and why by code is law as when/how a hardfork happens ETC is illegitimate, a fraud, and functionally it's a haven for thieves.
From the evidence here, it's clear that demands were made to return money that haejin "left" in the @dstors account. If that is so, that the funds are haejin's, it's black and white everywhere else except maybe the ETC camp, that it is theft. Does it mean that because it's international that he's escaped or evaded the consequences of Criminal and or Civil prosecution? No, that's why it's really funny that he's claiming to have talked to lawyers and can provide timestamps and source code and "designs", as if it takes a lawyer to recognize the act of taking what isn't yours or any big genius to spot the difference between talk of leaking info versus actual evidence relevant to exonerating the theft, he's clearly getting nowhere fast but even with the obvious admission of holding haejins funds hostage some people doubt the theft, which would be ok if haejin and others haven't also verified or confirmed it, a bit of twilight zone episode.
You point out a fear of mine that is secondary to me to the fact that such a theft is not only taking place in front of all of us, but with seeming support from a segment of the community. I am guessing that the international barriers as well as desire for anonymity is emboldening such a move. This is exactly the type of shit that gives a door for oversight, and regardless of some saying it isn't theft, it is. If this line of thought becomes law, there will never be any mass adoption, and I predict there will be lots of violence. There are people who would do horrible things for far less value being taken.
The thiefs responses thus far have amounted to "If he doesn't have a witnessed signature of me admitting to stealing the funds in the account then it's not theft". If all the generosity that he's seen is true, and why wouldn't it be, then he is amid the most despicable kinds of people there are. I never liked how haejin abused his stake but that doesn't mean he's deserving of this duplicitous douchebag hijacking the funds he put into the account.
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I've seen people die over digital items in a video game. Certainly this is a much bigger deal. It just points to the fact that blockchain will create just as many problems as it destroys. Welcome to the future.
hi @edicted
Agree with you. Indeed this may be very interesting stage.
Nor do I get get the theft or court argument..
Youre all talking about theft and the right thing to do..
But didnt @haejin rape and steal from the Reward Pool? Was that the right thing to do?
“Thieves cant be successful. "
I looked through the 39 pages of steemd on the account @dstors, I saw no excessively large transfer, some transfers to promotion bots for post, but nothing that looked like any sort of theft. When a person Delegates SP they can undo that transaction when ever they want to.
I did not look at @kaliju's page. It seems to me in the two pieces you posted above in images that @kaliju has done the correct thing and sought out legal help, (good for him), and has asked as part of the "discovery" process facts and documents to the claims being made against him.
I see no evidence being put forth by you, nor Mr. Haejin about how this supposed theft from @dstors took place? Serious accusation in my book require proof. Post a document showing the loan and then the request for re-payment and then the denial of the request, then yes you can call it theft. Until I see proof of theft, I will not treat an individual as a thief. Call me foolish, but I still believe a person is innocent until proven guilty. Show the proof of the theft.
I have seen a number of post about this issue and accusations, what I have not seen in any of them is any proof of theft.
That and so much more, like a document that shows that we incrorporated and that it was leagally signed by me. I will leak the actual (lawdepot.com templates that he used) "partnership" papers that I did sign with him that stated our roles for the non existing company that was "soon to be incorporated". Glad it never happened as he completely took control of everything (by threatening to pull his support if i didn't agree with his ways) which caused a lot of questioning from @whatsup and others.
I talked to the law firm that we were supposed to work with and they know that I backed out before it was too late, in writing. He's good at throwing three paragraph essays together and lying. That's how most, just like I have, fall under his influence. He manipulates people, that's what he does. I played a fool and went along as much as I could, boiling on the inside, when he went from 20% ownership to wanting full ownership using pressure tactings and my reliance on his promised backing.
He couldn't offer the devs that came forward to help us any actual money and tried to play everyone on the team by offering them token stake as compensation that doesn't even exist.
He claims he has multiple companies and that he was charting for over 20 years but he's only registered his analytics business in September. I don't know how he got his @ranchorelaxo account but what I do know is that steemit is his main source of income that he probably doesn't even pay tax on.
He doesn't own anything about dStors and never will. I have timestamps all over the place, source code, logo design, all social networks, domain names, witnesses etc.
He wants to take any of it, let him, that'll be a rope my lawers will hang him by the ballsack with.
His wife has influnce in #kr community and the reason being is because most of them can't read English and so are clueless as to what is really going on. That's how delegators left - they were told a story and none bothered to reach out to me and ask what was going on. I'm not about to start chasing people, explaining my side. It's useless.
He shitted all over the dstors account by using it to reply to people with agression, got pissed off at me for correcting him and started dcommerce. One must be a fool thinking that something that has a name like dcommerce can even be trademarked/inc'd or succeed as a platform. But that's besides the point. Point is, he must show proof, on paper, with my consent in signature and an official statement of him leaving the partnership before starting dcommerce and violating all dev agreements and NDA's in the process that were signed by everyone on the team.
Haejin: A lying ass amateur who claims to be a pro can continue with dcommerce fooling people. I can go on and on, but the proof of all that I speak of is in the pudding. And I might just share it for fun if this silly time wasting continues. Why are you so desperate to destroy a guy with an empty wallet, if you're so sure Mr. Millionaire? Save your breath and keyboard banging and talk to my lawyer who was laughing his ass off the other day while going over our "papers". Pfft!
I'm now in the middle of all this shit and it's all your negative energy that draws it. You're not God as you told me you believe to be. Deal with it.
You recovered the account that he funded and outlined "how" you would return it back. You stole his money.
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I agree - but people seem unwilling to be transparent about events...then speculation takes place over facts...
speculation, one of my favorite words of all time. You see a body in a parking space prone on the ground, is it dead, is it a woman, (you can't tell from your angle), is it a homeless person sleeping? A drunk passed out? We can all stand around and speculate till the cows come home, then the fun starts, poking it with a stick. A nice word speculation.
So why would he make demands before returning the funds in the account? facepalm of the year
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Why would there be no public memo about what the funds were for, why would he mention in his response (haejin's) that kali was being paid in steem not USD, why not show what the funds were to be used for, were they promised payments to kali, were they funds to be used to pay developers? There are a lot of reason why one person gives another person funds when they are a "Supposed" Investor. Investors lose money in a lot of investments. They also add money to help pay for work when they see a chance of reward. So far I haven't seen any evidence from either side what the funds were supposed to be for. Just because it looks like money was given, what were the terms of the money transfer? Why not show the document of what the funds were for? 90% of all wallet transfers have a memo attached to them especially when they are transfers of more than 5 steem, so why no memo on these transfers? I am not saying it does not belong to haejin, but it could just as well be kali's money also as payment as haejin went to great lengths to point out that kali was supposedly the only one being paid. All I am certain of is that I will never know the truth of it.
heajin posted some more details yesterday..not sure if makes things clearer...
it makes it clear that nothing was shown as to what the payments were for, nothing as to why he did not use a memo in the transfer of funds, a re-mention of his payment to kali ju in steem. and some respectable people being flagged for comments on his post, so yeah he made it about as clear as muddy water can get when someone has diarrhea in said muddy water.
Still the drama while different than last years with bernie is still drama, and something for some of the same players to make post make GIANT ASSED REWARDS from those post and claim once again woe is me.
Still I did have fun watching the bernie/hajien melt down last year at about this time. Do you think it will be a new New Years event, who will be the brunt of haejins rage next year.
haejin, bernie, and a few others - I wonder just how may are just the nucleus of steem, playing around....
They wouldn't be acting like they do - if they took steemit seriously....
Why would he make demands before returning funds? Za mostvepic facepalm.
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I prefer 'wobble'...
but I see what you mean...
Great, balanced and very mature reply @bashadow
Nice investigation dude, we Steemians have to
hold blockchain businesses accountable, and
putting the truth out is the best way to do that!
Thanks. This is jacked, and it is worrisome to me just how many are still backing the theft with excuses, sending in delegations as they rake in using the theft as a bid bot. I haven't responded yet but someone earlier actually put forth the idea it is ok to steal from Haejin because he deserves it for profiting from his investment (I cleaned up the verbiage).
Shake my damn head at the snakes willing to be blind or defend, to earn a few extra Steem or because they do mental somersaults comparing someone profiting from their investment via the reward pool to rape. Of course, to get upset with those who created the math for said pool are never blamed, only those who bring their investment in to use it.
Sorry for rambling, and thanks for the kind words. I appreciate those of you who see this for what it Clearly is and will speak up that this is wrong.
He needs to get his money back. End of story.
I totally agree that the money should be returned, but I also say, when you partner with shady people you are now fiscally tied to shady people
On a personal level I will avoid both groups. On a steem level, I hope everyone is paying attention to who you are funding.
A good idea does not equal a team that can pull it off.
I feel a parody coming on.....lol
YES!
Youre all talking about theft and the right thing to do..
But didnt @haejin rape and steal from the Reward Pool? Was that the right thing to do?
“Thieves cant be successful. "
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No, Haejin didn't rape a mathematical formula that was invented and created to bring investments such as his to the chain in the hopes of creating scarcity so all of our holdings would be more valuable. Which in turn would allow for easier funding by stakeholders for projects.
In fact, I am pretty sure that anyone who has had the misfortune of actually being raped would find the comparison to be more distasteful than I do. I do not understand why the anger for this scenario is directed at those investors who are pulled here with this math formula as an incentive, and not directed instead to the creators/voters of the math formula. While I personally do not self vote a lot, and give (tithe) to a worthy project here does not mean I am angry because an investor wants a return on their investment. I stay out of that battle and worry about my interest as I have no power to affect what the top stakeholders decide the math will be, and as I said, I believe that the value of Steem is directly tied to those willing to invest in the chain.
Having said that, I find it incredible that on top your ability to equate the seeking of top return on ones investment with the physical violation of rape, you then move forward using this absurd comparison as justification that he now "deserves" to be stolen from.
You just can't make this shit up.
Wow, this is pretty interesting. I had delegated some SP to them a couple of weeks ago, but then the things started happening and the way that they were answering legitimate questions from users really turned me off. I also noticed that they were using the delegations that had been given to them to upvote their own posts at 100%. I can probably understand the idea behind that, but I still found it a little disturbing. Needless to say, I ended up quickly pulling my delegation and now seeing this I am pretty glad I did. Thanks for speaking up about this. I don't have much interaction with @haejin given how small I am, but it only seems right that they return the funds if the project is not moving forward the way it was originally intended or planned.