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RE: That's not Science, that's Religion
most people don't question vaccine safety because its been proven many times to be safe. its kinda like i don't question that the earth is round... because its been proven that its round. if you get on google and search "vaccines not safe" and then click the first article that agrees with your preconceived opinion and ignore the other 500000000 that disagree there's a good chance you are wrong. If they were dangerous and scientists knew, don't you think someone would have blown the whistle by now? the study's are out there readily available for you to look at. The issue here is not that people don't question vaccines, its that people wont accept the answers when they don't align with their current beliefs.
If vaccines are so safe why are professional doctors and nurses questioning them? Why aren't high ranking politicians that champion vaccines for the general public getting their own vaccines? You say the studies are out: Please cite these studies. Over what duration of time were they and who funded them? Were they double blind studies?
" If they were dangerous and scientists knew, don't you think someone would have blown the whistle by now?"
No, quite the contrary, in fact data that showed the risks of vaccines were destroyed because it would endanger profit margins. Yes there have been doctors blowing the whistle, they're called anti-vax activists and largely ridiculed and often put their careers on the line just to do so. Yes there are doctors out there that are against vaccines.
"most people don't question vaccine safety because its been proven many times to be safe. " So every time a new vaccine comes out it's "safe", hmmm I wonder if we replaced the word "vaccine" with "drug" and that same sentence would work. "Most people don't question drug safety because it's been proven many times to be safe." Tell that to the fentynal victims that are hopelessly addicted or dead. Yes every new drug is safe alright. See what I mean by faith not science? Aluminum is a known neurotoxin, so is mercury, both can be found in vaccines. Nevermind all the animal and human DNA, fermaldehyde and other noxious chemicals. Have you looked at a vaccine ingredient list lately?
"The issue here is not that people don't question vaccines, its that people wont accept the answers when they don't align with their current beliefs."
Let's assume for the same of argument vaccines could be made 100% safe. All the adjuvents taken out, no foreign DNA, no nothing. That STILL doesn't entitle the state to mandate a medical procedure. Mandated medicine of any kind is a violation of the Nuremburg code pure and simple. It's a violation of your medical freedoms. Even if you were giving out bubble gum, that would not entitle you to lock someone up or forcibly shove a stick of bubble gum down their throat against their will.
This is not a case of cognitive dissonence or confirmation bias. There are many highly rational and logical people opposed to vaccines and real evidence to support vaccines do in fact do harm. Do you think a doctor with a PhD just wakes up and says "I think I'd rather go against the mainstream position that vaccines are safe thus endangering my career and reputation."? Do you think anyone would do that without real valid evidence to support that? I mean come on.
I'm just happy that he didn't simply turn out to be another troll with that mild diatribe, but then again, we shall see if he looks at the evidence that Robert F Kennedy compiled about thimerosal specifically, and I am curious what he has to say about the rest of the proof that vaccines aren't efficacious. I don't know if it was needed, to compile all those sources about his "vaccines work and here's proof" article, when in the very first source of that article there is a study sourced which shows the decline of measles at an extensive rate before vaccination, and tack onto that the fact that many of these viruses have never been isolated, that the mechanism by which they work has never worked as hypothesized and I doubt there will be any logical and critical thinker who will consider vaccinations as anything but a fraud.
Like he said, the information is out there, but blindly accepting scientific fraud and arguing that doctors and scientists and everyday people haven't been alarmed by that fact for over 200 years and have published numerous studies, articles and books, gave testimony before congress and in court and even those who have been on the vaccination payroll or worked to develop them and have switched sides only to dedicate their effort and time to inform and warn people and detail the scientific fraud that vaccines have been is the tale tell sign that he has not taken the time to inform himself and so speaking about something which he has no position or perspective of.
Hi whitezombie.
Vaccine Safety has been questioned and shown lacking in ALL of these 50 Scientific Studies.
That's a LOT of scientists, plus the journals accepted and published these studies.
Maybe you don't question vaccine safety, but LOTS & LOTS of scientists do.
I am considering doing a series of posts that goes through each of these scientific studies, one by one.
http://vaccinesafetycommission.org/studies.html
soooo you want your kids 50 vaccines because they are safe, I might be overboard, but 50 per year is a bit, much don't you think? There are even vaccines for the flu, because it's worthless to do that with 50000 strands? So logic again, where is it. are we born with needles in our asses? Are you saying you can build a body without taking anabolic "medications" , cheesus are you saying people have proven fifteen hundred million times that vaccines are good for you, why aren't we eating them anyways? I'm missing out on my vaccine shot since the air is filed with aluminum. Ever wonder about that ? :D why is there aluminum in the ground, did it grow out of it, are there metal trees around, since when, who proved what? where is your case,.
The issue here is you are being forced to do something! like you have been with your disbelief :D I was going to say science is religion at this point with people going around and repeating the same stuff. But it's true ok mate, still just a opinion.
@j3dy ...yeaaaah -slowly backs away-
sure -plays dungeons and dragons- next time I will hold you with the same disregard :) -rolls the dice-
ouch.. right in the feels. in regard to the aluminum you were talking about... its probably coming from your hat.
yeah those microwaves have fried your brains, would you like a hat? at least I'm recycling :D
Cheers mate you win I'm going to get back in my pod so I can vaccinate some more people later in time :D they need to be immune to stupidity and learn to smell it from far away
I'd like to hear your thoughts on another topic, one that I do actually care about and that is the leftist disconnect from reality.
give me an example of "the leftist disconnect from reality"
https://steemit.com/millenials/@schattenjaeger/my-rant-on-the-millenial-left-language-warning
here I was 20 days ago it seems then a wild pink eyeglasses appears and what do you know he wasn't even there, to say anything, wanted a talk, but couldn't speak, played the philosopher and the victim and acted like nothing was out of the ordinary.
I did scare him I agree :D
https://steemit.com/millenials/@j3dy/re-bacchist-re-stevescoins-re-schattenjaeger-re-stevescoins-re-schattenjaeger-my-rant-on-the-millenial-left-language-warning-20170219t174041018z
I guess people speaking out on topics gets to me. Especially if they have a predisposition to defend their "beliefs" and sadly we all do that. We are always right. Most of the time people can't stop and rarely do they think for themselves.
btw about hummmerica and health "care" :D:D:D:D
https://steemit.com/life/@brianphobos/personal-obamacare-experience-revisited-prepare-to-be-triggered-into-a-rage
About charity and "service"
https://steemit.com/life/@gardenofeden/feeding-people-is-unlawful-in-the-us-we-don-t-comply
so as you can see what we think is going on and what really is are different.
Btw I hear Canadian health care is shit too so people go to get their treatments in the us because of better professionals and the ability to not be stalled for months.
i dont really want to go through all those posts dood. i can assure you im aware of the flaws of the left though as well as the flaws of the right. im in a weird place right now it terms of where i stand on a political level. i used to like anarcho communism but have since moved away from that. im kind of in political no mans land lol. if you want to actually ask a question or something go for it but im not going to read through all those posts... i already told the guy below id read through the metric fuck ton of his lol. Health care here is pretty good i find... its all i know though so im prob a bit bias. the wait times can suck sometimes but i think its a fair trade for knowing that ill be able to get medical attention no matter what.
Voicing motions and mannerisms when you cannot argue, another one bites the dust.
Care to source ONE vaccine study that proves they work.
I have made this challenge in the past and it still stands:
Prove that vaccines are efficacious, any vaccine and I will donate all my meager steam to you after I power down, not acquired by voting or curating but by commenting and being rewarded by people from my comments, if that means anything.
There was one instance where someone decided to post an article from Wikipedia and I have thoroughly proven those claims as false, unfounded or ridiculous beyond even my imagination, so please show us the science, because as it stands your comment is clearly unfounded and not sourced, dogmatic and dismissive to the whole article. Borderline trollish behavior, and there is a good chance that you will not take up the challenge and instead resort to regurgitate ad nauseam vaccines work because the earth is round.
@baah no i dont care to source one. you can find them on your own. i don't care to argue with you about it buddy lol. I love the whole I spent an hour watching youtube videos and now im a doctor thing you got going though. never change lol.
Actually you don't have any sources, and apathy is what you ascribe to. Assuming you know anything about me is just the most epic of fallacious minds.
I'll tell you what, if you don't care why come in here and comment, obviously you do care, just not enough to have the semblance of informed perspective, a perspective where you examine both the pro and cons of what you're preaching, so your whole rigamarole is your time and effort gone to waste, nobody will take you seriously simply because of that, but again you probably don't care.
easy now champ.... jesus christ lol
CHAMP, you posted the article after what it looks like a cursory internet search, and did you not in fact post 3 "studies", which as you know I didn't even scrutinize but simply dismissed with newer knowledge.
Did you look at the blog from that very questionable mom: all full of pro vaccine bias posts from a "concerned" mom?
Did you know there is a history of vaccinations being scientific fraud that goes back 200+ years, with statistics being under reported for over 150 years?
If you are a real individual and not another shill/troll paid by the vaccine industry I can excuse your bullshit, ok you didn't research, you didn't inform yourself, you didn't question, this article that you decided to comment with your rigamarole is imploring you to do just that, it's understandable that it triggered you into some kind of defense for your beliefs, akin to your argument about why people don't research vaccines being safe, but regardless of what you researched at this point or what you didn't because you chose to not look at anything counter to your beliefs or investigate further, no matter how well read you might be, no matter that you said you didn't care, that then right off the bat without examining the first link I posted, you say that A LOT of my sources look very sketchy, well then we can take it there, obviously you don't want that, obviously, so don't call me champ/patronize me because it's demeaning, ok.
If you care about any of this than great, I'm all for helping my fellow man to understand what scientific fraud is but right now Lots of Lunacy from you is not going to get you anything but my scorn, it's not funny, you walk a fine line between troll and uninformed, your choice in words, lack of candor and respect for my time and effort is showing.
If you care about logic and critical thinking you should look at the following fallacies you fell prey to:
Half Truth Fallacy/Default Bias : posting only information about thimerosal not being dangerous.
False Analogy: the earth is round so that means vaccines are proven efficacious.
Bandwagon Fallacy: There's 500000000000000 studies out there.
Argument from Silence: Don't you think someone would have blown the whistle by now.
A priori Argument: Doing a google search "on vaccines not safe".
fuck it why not...
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12880876
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20837594
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19171612
https://medium.com/@visualvaccines/graphic-proof-that-vaccines-work-with-sources-61c199429c8c#.3t3o1ircx
im sure i could find many many more. have it it.
also i don't think apartheid means what you think it means.
A lot of those sites you linked seem prettttty sketchy. ill look through a few anyway. ill get back to you.
Are we arguing the information provided or the sources themselves? Because we can take it there right now: you posted a link to a blog first of all, to argue that vaccines are efficacious, AFTER trying to strawman/non sequitur that thimerosal doesn't cause autism to which I posted an article compiling numerous NUMEROUS citation to verifiable sources which have no question of credibility or collusion, which show a clear link between autism and thimerosal, and then I used the first source in that BLOG show that vaccination didn't account for the massive decline in morbidity or mortality from your own articles (dubious) source's citation, but now that you brought up the validity of my sources, that blog relied heavily on numerous dubious claims by the CDC and other vaccine collusion actors, which have a thorough history of under-reporting and misreporting incidences of vaccine induced infections and mortality, let alone the numerous other fraudulent activities which over the last 4 years I have become aware of with those "sources" your very sketchy blog article by A MOM, non professional who parroted those statistics as fact (fallacy of lying with statistics) and now you want to hint that my sources look sketchy, GET THE FUCK OUT, I will happily source all my claims (cdc under-reporting, collusion with vaccine manufactures/developers, fraud and lying with statistics) and determine exactly what?
Or do I just need to point you to the study that says and I repeat:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4160575/
its like this... i dont think there is a big conspiracy by the CDC ect ect. I still trust scientists. one if your links was a wordpress blog so yeah man im sorry but that's a red flag in my book. to be deadly honest yes i am kind of trolling you not because im a shill (LMFAO) but because i find anti vaxxers funny for the same reason i find flat earthers funny. i will honestly read through some of that stuff you posted though i give you my word.. hell maybe you will even change my mind... doubt it but maybe. so just take a few breaths now and relax.
You just basically stated you don't respect me by telling me I am just like flat earthers by stereotyping me, which is another logical fail by grouping/pigeonholing me as anti-vaxxer, after you admitted you blindly trust authority, which is the fallacious appeal to authority and then you used a double standard for your "red flag", sourcing a blog to begin your proof and so you base your concern/red flag on a hypocritical standard, and now you want me to take your word after that and then tell me to "relax"? Tone policing is also another fallacy, do the numerous statements I have made become invalid now that you perceive my tone as aggravated? You can larf all you want at me bro, you can larf at my insinuations about trolls/shills and that's ok, you have no leg to stand on as an individual or someone that cares about what they speak, what they believe, you have no concern and the proof is in the pudding.
Also you are backpedaling on what you said before: a lot of the sites
Which is it? A lot of the sites or one of my links?
Also, you want to argue you aren't a shill but a troll, you really want to stand on that hill now, after I pointed out that you're walking the line?
I don't find flat earth theorist funny, I find them confused, and confused people will confuse reality and real world scenarios, they are my fellow man, they seek to understand but have been given a false narrative. I expressed that there is a conspiracy with vaccinations for a LONG TIME, documented under reporting, documented collusion, and you don't want to look at that, why? Because you DON'T THINK!
If vaccines are so bad if and the evidence is so undeniable why don't the majority of doctors and scientists agree with you already? I would change my opinion in a heart beat if more then a handful of scientists came out and said yes vaccines are bad and do not work. If vaccines don't do what they are intended to do what is the purpose? why do they make them? how do you account for the elimination of things like polio, measles, small pox ECT ECT if it wasn't vaccines? they didn't just go away on their own. i want these answers in your words pref. i don't have time to go through 1000 diff web sites. Im aware that vaccines are not perfect but nothing is perfect. there are rare cases of bad side effects in just about any drug you can think of. when it comes to vaccines the good far out weighs the bad. sorry for being rude and what not i just don't get how you could think the things you do. also sorry to reply on diff posts... this is getting a bit messy.
If more than a handful? You haven't looked at the evidence for vaccines being dangerous, not just bad, so you don't have any ground to stand on when you make such statements, its not a handful, its thousands of scientists doctors, all kinds of professionals, people that worked to develop vaccines themselves. Why are you asking me what is their purpose if they don't work, you can come to your own conclusions but what evidence do you want me to bring for "what is their purpose if they don't work like intended?" Same for why do they make them? Any number of reasons.
I provided evidence that none of those diseases were eliminated, polio was reclassified, people still suffer from all these diseases, the evidence is there but you would rather dismiss it again and again instead of looking at it because it conflicts with your beliefs, a hypocrite if I ever saw one.
In your own "proof" for vaccines working there is the first source which that mom used to prove that measles was eradicated because of vaccine. In that source the very first citation is from a study which shows in it's very first diagram the massive decline of measles for 50 years before the vaccine. Did you understand that, or are you simply attempting to troll again? Did you not read that? Did you not form your own conclusion from that evidence? Did you even bother to read through the article you posted and verify the material you posted? You posted the evidence that vaccines don't work and you don't even know it.
I provided a pertinent study that says that antibodies don't work anything like it was theorized, meaning that vaccines don't have any mechanism to induce immunity if the antibodies that should be produced because of the viral material don't get produced or can stop the virus.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4160575/
Sure you do, you want me to spoon feed you the information in my own words because you don't have the time to do it yourself, you promised you would read but it turned out that you're a liar and a fake because you put down your convictions and said "you win", you ceded your position when pressure was put on your flimsy pillars of sand, you admitted to being a troll and you would rather laugh at some confused flat earth theorist instead of challenging them to explain things like lunar eclipse or any other number of inconsistencies probably because like you said in your very first remarks repeatedly, you don't care, but you want me to care, you want me to answer your questions after you disrespected me, patronized me, and refused to answer for the numerous fallacies that you formed. After all that you want to argue that vaccines aren't "perfect" because you still cling onto your beliefs that "the good far out weighs the bad", no off the cuff sorry will do, that was a pathetic general sorry and you hope it will gain my respect? you have made your choices and have only yourself to answer to, I don't want your answers to anything, all my questions are hypothetical and they will remain as such.
Again!
You are hypocrite who says there is evidence of vaccines being safe but won't look at the evidence of them being completely dangerous, without any redeeming value at all might I add, but will argue that the evidence is out there for their safety, you just won't provide evidence, especially evidence that can stand up to even cursory scrutiny! You didn't even bother to read the sources that your double standard red flag proof from a blog cites or the citations of those sources! You have pigeonholed me, patronized me, admitted to being a troll! To pile on to the cacophony that this has turned out to be you won't even bother to consider/read/understand that the basic mechanism by which vaccines theoretically work, or antibodies, is completely and utterly flawed and unreliable, impossible to predict any kind of immunity with! You then seek still to argue that vaccines are safe while relying heavily on the numerous fallacies that I have pointed out, the number one being the argument from silence, which now looks just a tiny little less fallacious as you're willing to consider a handful of scientists/doctors/professionals might have evidence of their danger, but that would be some kind of fallacy that doesn't exist: a fallacy is not a degree of false, it's either true or false, so it's a huge leap of logic to even extend that to your argument that why aren't there more people, because a handful is not enough, even though it's clearly fallacious to say that even, lets beg the question "why didn't you hear about this from the mass media and science community at large?" which remains a moot point as numerous theories have been taken as fact and just like the theory for antibodies and antigens working has been proven false, it still doesn't stop vaccines from being pushed as safe by hypocrites that won't bother to look at the evidence or even read ONE study ,but instead are happy to apply their double standard on the credibility of sources to flee from the overwhelming evidence of the dangers vaccines. O I could go on but you don't have the time.
The other awesome point that needs to be express is that in the blockchain your choices are forever remembered, so don't lament over my "I spent an hour watching youtube videos now im a doctor thing" because you will be left like the dinosaurs, a fossil in the record of the internet, the internet where admins don't scrub posts and comments and where ad revenue isn't the driving factor behind the hardware that keeps the record of what happened and who said what.
not terribly concerned about it.
Why not?
ok man you got me. im here to make $hill bux. its all a huge conspiracy to inject mind control drugs into the population. we paid off the majority of doctors and scientists to keep this under wraps. the few that have spoken out against us are currently on our hit list and will soon be eliminated. lol. you win.
Why not actually inform yourself and then engage in discussion like a sensible person instead of trolling?
I never accused you of being a shill, I commented on your behavior as borderline trollish and I said that you're the victim of fallacious reasoning instead of outright calling you stupid and ignorant for your arguments and before that I told you that you were walking a fine line between troll and uninformed individual.
I never called you a troll, you did that, you admitted that you troll, so those were your words, your choices. Did I impress onto you anything?
I didn't label you, I didn't demean you by patronizing you, I didn't resort to feigning concern like you have and I didn't cede from my convictions, but you did.
It was you that came in here saying that people don't look at the mountains of evidence, making disingenuous claims about research on vaccine safety, and didn't even bother to digest the post itself because you ignored the very first link and it's valid concerns, and if you laughed at that or dismissed that then shame on you.
You excused yourself from the discussion by lying and saying you're a shill, because you thought I called you a shill and said you're not a shill, I know you're not a shill because a shill will not say anything about that themselves or say they are trolling, their credibility is paramount to their paycheck, so you cannot be both a self proclaimed troll and a shill, a shill is never interested in discussion or in remarking anything but their opinionated emotional reactionary remarks. It's quite evident to me as I have seen this happen on facebook where I was following over 1200 pages and hundreds of people. I don't even waiver on speculation on a shill's mondus opernadi, I understand the business of vaccinations is all propaganda, ALL OF IT, look at the science bro, it's telling you that they don't know how antibodies work, do you understand that? Shills are one dimensional where as you are akin to many bored individuals looking to laugh at antivaxers or anything they consider stupid/ignorant.
What you did is nothing short of wasting your effort and time on a dialogue that is fallacious to the core, where a shill is always seeking to place people into an emotional response to bypass logic and reasoning. Even if I uttered the word shill, look at the context I used it in, I gave you the benefit of doubt numerous times and you chose to admit that you're a troll.
You might regret ever taking up the challenge of proving vaccines as efficacious but all you really have to do is admit to yourself not me, not the blockchain, that you are uninformed, that like the flat earthers you have been duped and misled and it's not that difficult, there are numerous vaccine researchers that have rallied against vaccines for a long time, people that gave up their careers and even their life to speak the truth because they too were misled, they too fell victim to blindly accepting theory as truth, they believed they were doing good but when they started questioning and came the conclusion they had to admit only one thing: I was duped, I was wrong, I should have been more inquisitive, I should have taken the time to investigate my doubts and not cede to my belief structure, and so in closing don't be the victim of your arrogance and ignorance, there is redemption in taking up the love of truth and putting down the lulsec reactionary response, investigate, inquire, and this is also paramount: physicians heal yourselves first.
Whose job is it to calculate the risks to the patient? Informed choice is part of being a free individual.