Fuck sakes guys lol. I totally get the point of this. I do care about the raping of the rewards pool. I used all of my weekly VP downvoting that rapist @haejin and the heat I took from regular users was ridiculous.
I have a hard time understanding how anyone can agree with 10+ $250 posts a day. How can anyone agree that a 1.3 million dollar whale who only has ever upvoted only @haejin's posts not in the least bit fishy.
A lot of users are too much of a pussy to downvote for fear of being counter attacked. I don't agree with this rape either even though it's to prove a point.
This platform needs to be protected by the large stake holders. I don't understand why all witnesses aren't steeping up to the plate or why @ned cannot implement something to put a stop to this.
There is not a single person in this world who's blog's would be worth $60,000 to $80,000 a week. I tried to help downvote @haejin as well as many other scams I've come across on this platform. 15,000 SP only does so much.
I was surprised by the results of the @haejin situation. I definitely can't believe how people are so blind to the issue. What can we do? As I said at the beginning "I Do Care"!
well i followed this quite closely and got a bit of heat also for putting the finger in the wound. nobody wanted to understand that there is something going wrong, everybody was just singing and praying somehow as if this guy would be the archbishop of a strange cult ...
I think @haejin does an excellent job. He also doesn't break the rules (not even the moralistic ones because a lot of whales upvote themselves) and he is doing his followers enough of a favor with his work that he probably wouldn't get much less without the self-upvoting.
Big whales in the pond are part of the game, so don't be jealous and play your own.
I think that @sweetsssj's posts are not worth the $700 + each that they receive however in her defense she's only posts once every 2 days not 10+ times per day.
What would you think if 16 or 17 groups of people mimicked the @haejin/@ranchorelaxo system. Say these groups all did an exact replica of the current situation and all received 6% of the pool each.
Would you still defend the 16-17 accounts receiving nearly the entire reward pool each week?
Well, here's some basic economics: People react to a changing economic environment. As soon as they realize that they can't make the money anymore which they made before because the whales keep the cash to themselves, they will go elsewhere. This reduces the value of being on Steemit in total, which could go down significantly and causes those 16-17 accounts to lose a lot of the value for their self-voting. This again will trigger them to react by for example voting small fish or by creating profitable bots and prepping those up with some of their SP. Some users will notice this and increase their activities again until a new equilibrium has been reached and - Pardon - the next Socialist comes around the corner and tries to save the world again.
If you include all his previous posts in which he built up his reputation as a stellar analyst it actually is worth that much. Only the best can pull 3 sentences out of their sleeves and everyone listens to it. I'm glad I know someone like him who's cutting to the case in this manner. He reminds me of Martin Armstrong and his blog.
lol, this is pretty funny. What is it you would like ned to do?
It is a stake based system. I am just curious about your ideas on a solution. While I am here making a meaningful comment... I might as well reward myself as well.
I don't think we should stop and wait for ned to do anything. The culture of this platform needs to change. There's money grabbing deception via inorganic voting for instance. It's a broken system. I know we have interacted on the self voting and I have chosen to opt out of that practice. I think if others had a "bigger picture" mentality that they should do the same. We have allowed mechanisms onto this platform that serve to reward stake over value of content and it is painfully apparent with even a cursory glance of the trending page.
One of the Marine Corps leadership principles is to set the example. If one is not willing to forego rewards of self voting and perhaps even use their voting power to both incentivize non-self voters as well as the more controversial option of deincentivizing overvalued content of self voters (via flagging), that aspect of the platform will by no means change. It takes more than just a handful but most people are too comfortable or I'd like to say complacent and complacency kills.
Seems to me the flaws are inherent in the system. Money is power, survival of the fittest or cleverest, formation of tribes. It’s like an experiment in Anarchy. Not sure how it will end.
Supporting non-self voting posts is one of the best thing a minnow like me can do. I've developed a rudimentary script to determine self vote status but it's not really for the layperson. It requires the steem piston python libraries. It will return true if self voted and false otherwise.
It would be nice if I can figure out how I can integrate something like this into a Steem front end that would filter but I haven't really gotten that far in my experience with python. It may be easier just to ctrl-f from steemd but sometimes the node is unavailable so I would use this alternatively.
import sys
import time
import datetime
from piston import Steem
steem= Steem()
def check_selfvote(identifier):
steempost=steem.get_post(identifier)
votes=steempost.active_votes
author=steempost.author
votearr=[]
for vote in votes:
votearr.append(vote['voter'])
if author not in votearr:
selfvote="False"
else:
selfvote="True"
return selfvote
identifier = input('Please, enter identifier of post to determine self vote status: ')
check_selfvote(identifier)
Agreed on the former. It is true that people can use alts to self vote which appears to be the case with pilgrimtraveler / explorertraveler / karengentry (I've inquired w no response). I digress. From my perspective, removing the self vote would hinder the problem albeit not fully remove it.
It may not be feasible to fully address. Scammers gonna scam.
Right, yes flagging those posts does help; however, in the current state there isn't really a compelling incentive for people to use their voting power for that purpose.
That may be the shortfall and I think we can both agree, with the rise of controversy in regard to reward pool rape, that the flagging capability seems ill equipped to fully address the problem because it is costly for those that take it upon themselves to do it. I wonder how much this recent campaign has cost Bernie for instance. Probably a pretty penny.
I've been considering more creative solutions and I think I have one heck of an idea but it needs to be refined. I know that you likely fall on the other side of the self voting issue so I hope I am not boring or annoying you too much. :) Merry Christmas by the way!
I have no problem with self-voting, and I have no problem with 'excessive' rewards on posts. At this stage, I think we need to focus on clear abuse, like content free spam and kickback collusion to get people to upvote spam and share the rewards. If the only point of the post is to harvest the rewards, I'm likely to downvote. If someone's getting $10,000 because a bunch of whales decided to upvote their thoughts on some issue I don't really care.
I think it's called Steemitfever, it's starts with looking at the price of SBD on Coinmarketcap everyday. Then you start to hallucinate from all the cryptos you could be buying right now, so you start to upvote anything and everything including your own posts and comments.
WTF IS THIS? About 2450 USD down the drain ...
This is a good example to scare off new People. Just let subscribe my son in here. One of the first things he reads is this post ...
he's calling attention to how the reward pool isn't always used well because people don't flag. it's ironic because one of the reasons people don't flag is because of revenge flagging in part by none other than the author of this post. He is lamenting against the very culture he has helped create.
At least he's exposing weaknesses in the system by demonstrating how one high-SP account can make Steemit worse for others.
But yeah, it does seem idiotic to create something and then complain about it. Maybe it's just high-level trolling and attention seeking.
The paradox/irony is how much Bernie does support useful things like cheetahbot. I really want to believe he genuinely cares about this platform even when his words and actions demonstrate otherwise.
Cheetah is another way to centralize authority and make people feel like keeping the site "clean" isn't their job. If everyone used their flags it wouldn't be so scary, but instead, they can upvote cheetah and think they are done.
Many people have earned a lot of money playing the clean up game. Maybe they should use that stake to help with abuse. Who knows.
By the way, I think cheetah is a classy organization with good people, but the concept that someone else will keep the site clean is part of the reason we came this far with very little flagging.
That's a good point, and I agree on some level. If people don't take individual, personal responsibility to protect what they value, then it creates more centralization and single points of failure.
I also think human involvement isn't always required. I love cheetahbot because it does things better than humans can. It's just the first step. The next step is steamcleaners and individuals using their downvotes as needed, using cheetahbot as a way to find things which need their attention. We don't all have to run our own cheetahbot software. That would be inefficient and the comments would start to look like spam and be worse than the problem. Economies of scale are a real thing we should appreciate as we seek decentralization.
I agree though, we each have to take personal responsibility if we have an expectation for some particular outcome.
The funny thing is, this whole post is now hidden by default which hides the scammy comments even further. Many of them are still paying out. The problem being highlighted here is how easy it is for people to abuse the system and how difficult it is to get enough people to care.
Like I said, it's a fascinating experiment. Your performance art performance on Steem is always entertaining. Maybe not always good for the platform, but it is entertaining. That said, at other times your vigilante flagging is amazing for this place. We're all just people doing some combination of the best for ourselves and this platform.
I said that exact thing very respectfully on the screaming Bernie post and got seriously downvoted. I actually decided to stay waaaayy out of all of this drama but wanted you to know that other people see that, they just end up scared to say anything because “minnow”. I hope it gets worked out before this just becomes a negative place to be. (Please don’t downvote me for sharing a feeling)
I feel like an asshole...
you really should
You first fuckface.
all good justinashby I thought you were upvoting I see youre flaggin :)
but as a side note dont treat me like that, you had no right to swear at me, its abusive.
No need, but you did waste a LOT of voting power for nothing...
I know but it is my duty to try with what little I have. I didn't want to but I did.
Hopefully a few votes make up for it. Thanks for playing along.
I am grateful but I am going to flag myself.
Because I think there’s a lot of crimes unsolved, what the heck, i’ll join
No problem. I was afraid to cause you could crush me.
Well sure. Now, if you would have flagged me then commented with "@haejin is the master chart bullshitter!" then I may have gone after you.
Fuck sakes guys lol. I totally get the point of this. I do care about the raping of the rewards pool. I used all of my weekly VP downvoting that rapist @haejin and the heat I took from regular users was ridiculous.
I have a hard time understanding how anyone can agree with 10+ $250 posts a day. How can anyone agree that a 1.3 million dollar whale who only has ever upvoted only @haejin's posts not in the least bit fishy.
A lot of users are too much of a pussy to downvote for fear of being counter attacked. I don't agree with this rape either even though it's to prove a point.
This platform needs to be protected by the large stake holders. I don't understand why all witnesses aren't steeping up to the plate or why @ned cannot implement something to put a stop to this.
There is not a single person in this world who's blog's would be worth $60,000 to $80,000 a week. I tried to help downvote @haejin as well as many other scams I've come across on this platform. 15,000 SP only does so much.
I was surprised by the results of the @haejin situation. I definitely can't believe how people are so blind to the issue. What can we do? As I said at the beginning "I Do Care"!
well i followed this quite closely and got a bit of heat also for putting the finger in the wound. nobody wanted to understand that there is something going wrong, everybody was just singing and praying somehow as if this guy would be the archbishop of a strange cult ...
I dig your passion!
Welcome to flagit.com you helped so much.
I think @haejin does an excellent job. He also doesn't break the rules (not even the moralistic ones because a lot of whales upvote themselves) and he is doing his followers enough of a favor with his work that he probably wouldn't get much less without the self-upvoting.
Big whales in the pond are part of the game, so don't be jealous and play your own.
You clearly didn't read what I wrote but thank you for your opinion.
I did read your comment and I strongly disagree.
That's wrong I think. I'm sure there are blogs out there that are much more worth than that.
A question: What do you think about @sweetsssj regularly rewarding herself with bigtime upvotes beyond 100$?
I think that @sweetsssj's posts are not worth the $700 + each that they receive however in her defense she's only posts once every 2 days not 10+ times per day.
What would you think if 16 or 17 groups of people mimicked the @haejin/@ranchorelaxo system. Say these groups all did an exact replica of the current situation and all received 6% of the pool each.
Would you still defend the 16-17 accounts receiving nearly the entire reward pool each week?
Well, here's some basic economics: People react to a changing economic environment. As soon as they realize that they can't make the money anymore which they made before because the whales keep the cash to themselves, they will go elsewhere. This reduces the value of being on Steemit in total, which could go down significantly and causes those 16-17 accounts to lose a lot of the value for their self-voting. This again will trigger them to react by for example voting small fish or by creating profitable bots and prepping those up with some of their SP. Some users will notice this and increase their activities again until a new equilibrium has been reached and - Pardon - the next Socialist comes around the corner and tries to save the world again.
so this 3 sentence TA from haejin really is worth that ?
come on you should know better.
If you include all his previous posts in which he built up his reputation as a stellar analyst it actually is worth that much. Only the best can pull 3 sentences out of their sleeves and everyone listens to it. I'm glad I know someone like him who's cutting to the case in this manner. He reminds me of Martin Armstrong and his blog.
Steemit is still relatively young. Fluid, dynamic and aggravating - yes. I feel it will all sort itself out.
His posts are mainly pump and dump enabling plus post spam sometimes.
I don't follow him too closely and don't read every post, but when I see one, he usually got it right.
would you like some rape with that rape?
Lol what does that even mean?
its a canola joke
Oh like the rapeseed plant? Lol
What's the @haejin situation I keep hearing about everywhere around here?
@originalworks
someone had to do it
lol, this is pretty funny. What is it you would like ned to do?
It is a stake based system. I am just curious about your ideas on a solution. While I am here making a meaningful comment... I might as well reward myself as well.
I don't think we should stop and wait for ned to do anything. The culture of this platform needs to change. There's money grabbing deception via inorganic voting for instance. It's a broken system. I know we have interacted on the self voting and I have chosen to opt out of that practice. I think if others had a "bigger picture" mentality that they should do the same. We have allowed mechanisms onto this platform that serve to reward stake over value of content and it is painfully apparent with even a cursory glance of the trending page.
One of the Marine Corps leadership principles is to set the example. If one is not willing to forego rewards of self voting and perhaps even use their voting power to both incentivize non-self voters as well as the more controversial option of deincentivizing overvalued content of self voters (via flagging), that aspect of the platform will by no means change. It takes more than just a handful but most people are too comfortable or I'd like to say complacent and complacency kills.
Seems to me the flaws are inherent in the system. Money is power, survival of the fittest or cleverest, formation of tribes. It’s like an experiment in Anarchy. Not sure how it will end.
Am I missing the call to action. What are we doing about it?
Supporting non-self voting posts is one of the best thing a minnow like me can do. I've developed a rudimentary script to determine self vote status but it's not really for the layperson. It requires the steem piston python libraries. It will return true if self voted and false otherwise.
It would be nice if I can figure out how I can integrate something like this into a Steem front end that would filter but I haven't really gotten that far in my experience with python. It may be easier just to ctrl-f from steemd but sometimes the node is unavailable so I would use this alternatively.
The likely hood of getting community consensus seems low to me. It also doesn't work because most Steemians have more than one account. :)
Agreed on the former. It is true that people can use alts to self vote which appears to be the case with pilgrimtraveler / explorertraveler / karengentry (I've inquired w no response). I digress. From my perspective, removing the self vote would hinder the problem albeit not fully remove it.
It may not be feasible to fully address. Scammers gonna scam.
Exactly, which is addressed in the Whitepaper along with the idea if people are abusing the system the community can flag the rewards.
We have come full circle. Nice discussion.
Right, yes flagging those posts does help; however, in the current state there isn't really a compelling incentive for people to use their voting power for that purpose.
That may be the shortfall and I think we can both agree, with the rise of controversy in regard to reward pool rape, that the flagging capability seems ill equipped to fully address the problem because it is costly for those that take it upon themselves to do it. I wonder how much this recent campaign has cost Bernie for instance. Probably a pretty penny.
I've been considering more creative solutions and I think I have one heck of an idea but it needs to be refined. I know that you likely fall on the other side of the self voting issue so I hope I am not boring or annoying you too much. :) Merry Christmas by the way!
"While I am here making a meaningful comment... I might as well reward myself as well." :D :D :D
I have no problem with self-voting, and I have no problem with 'excessive' rewards on posts. At this stage, I think we need to focus on clear abuse, like content free spam and kickback collusion to get people to upvote spam and share the rewards. If the only point of the post is to harvest the rewards, I'm likely to downvote. If someone's getting $10,000 because a bunch of whales decided to upvote their thoughts on some issue I don't really care.
i replied to you on the other post, I think we could build something together, but then you need to talk to me! So please answer!
I've got the bug too.
I think it's called Steemitfever, it's starts with looking at the price of SBD on Coinmarketcap everyday. Then you start to hallucinate from all the cryptos you could be buying right now, so you start to upvote anything and everything including your own posts and comments.
That is what I am seeing and also I felt it. I felt it.
A fascinating experiment. Looking forward to seeing what happens here.
WTF IS THIS? About 2450 USD down the drain ...
This is a good example to scare off new People. Just let subscribe my son in here. One of the first things he reads is this post ...
he's calling attention to how the reward pool isn't always used well because people don't flag. it's ironic because one of the reasons people don't flag is because of revenge flagging in part by none other than the author of this post. He is lamenting against the very culture he has helped create.
At least he's exposing weaknesses in the system by demonstrating how one high-SP account can make Steemit worse for others.
But yeah, it does seem idiotic to create something and then complain about it. Maybe it's just high-level trolling and attention seeking.
The paradox/irony is how much Bernie does support useful things like cheetahbot. I really want to believe he genuinely cares about this platform even when his words and actions demonstrate otherwise.
Cheetah is another way to centralize authority and make people feel like keeping the site "clean" isn't their job. If everyone used their flags it wouldn't be so scary, but instead, they can upvote cheetah and think they are done.
Many people have earned a lot of money playing the clean up game. Maybe they should use that stake to help with abuse. Who knows.
By the way, I think cheetah is a classy organization with good people, but the concept that someone else will keep the site clean is part of the reason we came this far with very little flagging.
That's a good point, and I agree on some level. If people don't take individual, personal responsibility to protect what they value, then it creates more centralization and single points of failure.
I also think human involvement isn't always required. I love cheetahbot because it does things better than humans can. It's just the first step. The next step is steamcleaners and individuals using their downvotes as needed, using cheetahbot as a way to find things which need their attention. We don't all have to run our own cheetahbot software. That would be inefficient and the comments would start to look like spam and be worse than the problem. Economies of scale are a real thing we should appreciate as we seek decentralization.
I agree though, we each have to take personal responsibility if we have an expectation for some particular outcome.
The funny thing is, this whole post is now hidden by default which hides the scammy comments even further. Many of them are still paying out. The problem being highlighted here is how easy it is for people to abuse the system and how difficult it is to get enough people to care.
You are right, I was lumping Cheetah and the rest of those services together.
I do agree they helped with some issues and created others. You got my point about personal responsibility which is where i was headed.
This whole thing is between sad and funny.
Ironic, isn't it?
People don't flag because they're pussies. It's not my fault they can't buy more Steem and power up...
Like I said, it's a fascinating experiment. Your performance art performance on Steem is always entertaining. Maybe not always good for the platform, but it is entertaining. That said, at other times your vigilante flagging is amazing for this place. We're all just people doing some combination of the best for ourselves and this platform.
Well said. :)
"We're all just people doing some combination of the best for ourselves..."
Wow, I just sent you a message about exactly that!
Doing good for ourselves isn't a bad thing. Doing good for ourselves at the expense of everyone else is.
I said that exact thing very respectfully on the screaming Bernie post and got seriously downvoted. I actually decided to stay waaaayy out of all of this drama but wanted you to know that other people see that, they just end up scared to say anything because “minnow”. I hope it gets worked out before this just becomes a negative place to be. (Please don’t downvote me for sharing a feeling)
More to come. Much, much more.
Source
Source
Source
Source
What is this post meaning?
Yahooey!!!
But, but, you're a terrible Steemian for rewarding yourself!
I'm rewarding myself because that's what we do here on Steemit!
But, but, you're a terrible Steemian for rewarding yourself!
I'm rewarding myself because that's what we do here on Steemit!
But, but, you're a terrible Steemian for rewarding yourself!