My first action on "newsteem" was an upvote, since my voting mana (or whatever it's called lately) has been at 100% all day, because I wasn't expecting there to be downtown due to the HF (silly me).
Unfortunately, the upvote I gave only resulted in a $0.02 award. Normally my upvotes are worth at least $0.04. Are all our votes worth half what they used to be worth, or is the problem just with me?
my upvote is still worth $0.00
Yes we were all cut in half. Steemit will die soon
This will be mainly due to the new "CLRC" reward curve.
This ignores other (I think smaller) complications introduced under HF21.
So that basically promotes voting on whales then. If I want my vote to be worth something, I need to vote on posts that I know will reach the 20 Steem barrier.
Why would I vote on newbies if I know they most likely will not get big payouts?
And what about whales votes? They will also not vote on plankton knowing their vote is gonna be worth half the real value.... So who is gonna vote those little ones now?
How is this #newsteem gonna help new users? I thought it was supposed to help with onboarding....
So disappointing!
The CLRC makes it inefficient to vote on posts that will end up with low payouts. The aim being to discourage low value spam posts from extracting rewards without being seen. Unfortunately the level at which it has been set may also dis-incentivise smaller / newer users and also impacts rewarding comments (since each of these cases typically gains small rewards).
Things change and this is where we are at now. Fortunately the Steem environment is very innovative. There is a clear need for methods / behaviours which will allow smaller SP holders to use their votes more efficiently and quality niche / new users to be promoted effectively. It will require some level of aggregation / cooperation but I think that this will happen quite quickly.
This actually also includes my posts and my friends posts. So if my post is inefficient I will get even less votes than I was before. Where will the whales place their votes? On the potentially efficient posts I am guessing. Which is promoting circle jerking even more.
Why would I vote those small fish instead of voting on those big payout posts too?
If things don't get adjusted my daily earning will drop by half (Total Steem earned comparing from before HF and with yesterday's claim). And I am not the only one here....
The potentially increased curation will not cover that loss.
Which brings us back to the idea of punishing bid bots with this fork. I didn't use bid bots before, but why wouldn't I now start using them now to help my posts reach 20 steem payout, so I don't lose any more than I already did?
For smaller users, the systems / communities / user behaviours that were used under HF20 will need to be adapted to be efficient under HF21.
At the simplest level, one post earning $5 will be worth (something-like) twice as much to the author as 5 posts earning $1.
So communities may look to reward users with a larger amount every 5th post rather than a smaller amount on every post. Users would adapt their behaviours / expectations to this uneven payout schedule.
Users may also post less frequently but with a focus on increased quality in each post.
This all requires some cooperation between communities / groups of friends and there will be some need for scale in each community to make it work. So it's a less "pure" system than HF20. But I think that these adaptations will come.
I also think that it will be accepted that people will use bidbots to reach the 20 Steem threshold, at least initially. As long as the quality is good and the purchased votes aren't excessive (and the bidbot is one of the ones that the general community approves of) it shouldn't be a problem.
There may also be a blurring between communities / bidbots with communities purchasing delegations to support their users, with some level of funding coming from users.
But the key is that some adaptation will be necessary.
Ok, so people should post less often. Maybe twice a week... Won't that reduce the overall site traffic?
That still doesn't solve the post earnings. As a example: If I would vote someone with 100% every day, he will get 5 full votes that way in 5 days. Posting once every 5 days he will get one full vote. I cannot vote with 500%.
Which will bring more customers to the bot owners instead the other way round as planned. I read something this HF was supposed to reduce/kill/make it harder for bid bots.
If this was taken care of for the past 2-3 years, who will take care of that now?
Yea, that I agree.
Overall... overcomplicating (and this is what I think of HF21 now) things will make it a lot harder to understand and absorb for average user. And not understanding leads to lack of interest.
On top of that discreet promotion of using bots to reach the 20 Steem and voting on the biggest payed out posts instead supporting small plankton posts.
Sorry... but I don't see how this HF as a positive change. Hope I am wrong.
P.S. Thanks for taking your time answering me.
So, does that mean if payout is something... Let's say 10 STEEM the upvote value would be %75 of its max?
The CLRC continues to increase past 20 Steem, slowly converging on (but never, I suppose, actually reaching) a maximum value.
I did some numbers a while back, so these are broad brush.
But practically if we say that a post with 250 Steem payout is pretty close to producing maximum values for each vote then:
If 20 Steem payout gives votes value that are equivalent to HF20 linear then:
It's a broad indication only; there are lots of assumptions involved.
Thanks, that was easy to understand!
If you are a whale your vote is worth just as much... only normal people got shattered...
I expirenced this as well.
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Okay, thanks for letting me know it isn't just me.
Anyone else's upvotes not producing the same payout they did yesterday? I used to upvote for between 4 and 5 cents (at 100% power). I was at 100%, voted at full power, and only resulted in a 2 cent payout!
YUP... my up-vote shrunk as well. And here I was all happy about being a dolphin at last so that I can dole out decent votes and then they pull this on us when Steem is at rock bottom in value already! How many more Minnows need to abandon hope before they realize that they are killing Steem with these 'new' ideas? Instead of making changes so that more minnows can grow into dolphins (and promote the Steem ecosystem), they make it impossible for a minnow to get ahead.
Well said, that's how I feel too.
We clawed our way to a tiny upvote, now that's halved, and then halved again. Not just tiny decreases, but a total change in one move, like a transfer of wealth away from the masses toward the insiders.
I guess we can forget about Steem and focus on Battle and PAL tokens, plus a few more of the coins based off of Steem. If it wasn't for them, there isn't much left to be working for, especially if you hold less than 1,000 SP.
Yea.. it's like putting another tax on those that have the smallest earnings already.
I suspect that the team running the HFs doesn't understand how psychology affects users. I know they consider game theoretical aspects, but prior to HF21 my incentive to post was low, since even for posts where I spent hours and got a decent amount of votes, the payout was extremely low in contrast to those who are gaming the system. Now under HF21 my incentive is even lower. I had already stopped trying to convince others to join the platform, and HF21 lowers that incentive even more. This seems to all be the result of having an oligarchy run steem. Steem needs many more users, but its complexity and lack of features are unlikely to result in more users. HF21 makes things more complex. You can argue that you don't get anything on the mainstream social networks, but that again goes back to psychology. Folks see the huge payouts on meaningless posts, put time into their posts, then wonder why they get near nothing. Overall, my 1+ year on Steem has largely been a huge loss in terms of time and money invested. In contrast, my time on Twitter has been very valuable, because there are communities there with which I can have meaningful scientific discussions.
I agree with you 100%. I've seen the argument several times that some pay-out is better than none, but that comparison can only be used if all things are equal. The Steem system is far behind something like Facebook for a social media platform in so many ways that it would be like comparing grapes to watermelon. The price for a grape and the price for a watermelon will be hugely different and they are not even the same as far as taste or anything else, except that they are both juicy. So now if someone were to offer to give me a few grapes for free, but I don't care for the taste/texture/or whatever of grapes, would I be incentivised to eat grapes just because they are free? I think most people wouldn't be.
If I loved watermelon and someone offered me free watermelon, of course I would take it. Steem needs to become the watermelon FIRST, then they can use the "but you earn dust here and there you don't" argument.
Your comparison between your time on STEEM and on Twitter made me really think. I used to think in terms of money (1 cent on STEEM is better than 0 on Facebook) but I'm not sure after reading this.
True, I had more meaningful conversations on Facebook than I had on STEEM.
This is why many of us were railing against HF21. This is the plan, and, in my opinion, disadvantages minnows and dolphins in order to reward whales more greatly. I continue to believe this is a problem. I hope that there will be an outcry against the changes and they will change it back.
I wish they'd change it back if there's an outcry. I don't think they would (I'll be happy if I'm wrong.)
I think they'll change it back if they decide it's not working, but an outcry would be a very small part of that. And, unfortunately, what Steem is like for them, and what Steem is like for us will be very different experiences.
From before, only a small minority earned 20Steem or more, but many earned at least 1Steem to 5. Now? I guess it will be at close to zero for the majority of us.
I have 2 accounts. On the smaller one I have set it at Decline Payout. With an SP of less than 200, no point in wasting everyones voting power. The other will carry on a usual for a while, so that I can compare.
I had been disappointed by the loss of value in Steem, but had continued trying to earn some, in the hope that someday it comes back to life. The way it is rigged now, no point in trying for the smaller posters and the promise of a future high value for Steem is just an empty (fake) promise. They/we are no longer allowed to try and benefit ... someday.
Thank god so many other Steem platforms have been created.