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RE: Is "Tribalism" Good, Bad or Indifferent? Is "Us vs. Them Our Strength or Our Downfall?
Sometimes the effects of "tribalism" (especially religious and political) end up becoming hypocrisy. Immigrants seek shelter in other countries-- in search of "a better life." That's fair enough. But then after they have been in their new homeland for a while, they start protesting and insisting on "changes" to make things more like the home they were used to... wanting an underlying structure that WAS THE CAUSE of the situation that made them want to leave, in the first place.
Maybe THEY don't see it that way... but it's the way it inevitably works.
If that were the case: "immigrants start protesting and insisting on changes to make things more like their homeland" can it justify "our" tribalistic response in chasing "them" back to where they came from?
I am not sure what the answer is but you brought up a really good question: How do we handle a situation where we feel that some people (who are now part of our community) want something that we do not think is going to serve us?
Personally, I've not seen "immigrants protesting" as they usually don't have the legal right to protest in the host country. Is this something you're seeing happening around the world?
No. I don't think "chasing them back in the water" is the answer. On the other hand, I don't think it's unreasonable to say "When in our house, we play by our rules; when in your house, we play by your rules."
I'll give you an example that recently came up in my native Denmark, which has taken in a number of refugees and many immigrants in recent years. There was a movement Muslim immigrants took to the Danish government to have pork removed from the menus of Danish schools because it "offended their religion."
Just a minute... you came to Denmark to (among other things) get away from a religious totalitarianism form of government... but now you're asking for a form of religious totalitarianism to be implemented?
Ok I understand what you meant about making the new home country the same as their homeland. Thanks for sharing the pork example in school menu. I am not aware of the details of the case but here are my initial thoughts.
The schools should offer non-pork options for those who don't want to eat pork. It is not just Islam that forbids pork but also Judaism and I am sure there are Jewish kids in schools who are not immigrants. I am a vegetarian and if I go to another country I still would like to be able to retain my dietary preference. However, just as I would like to retain my own dietary preference I need to respect your choice too! So, if there was a non-pork option available and a group still tried to enforce its own preference (no pork in schools) on others, then that's just unacceptable.
Tolerance has to be both ways. I don't think if I come to Denmark I should have to eat pork ("When in our house, we play by our rules; when in your house, we play by your rules") and when you come to Malta (where I live) you should have to be vegetarian.
I hope that pork wasn't removed from the menu (it's a strange thing for a vegetarian to say :) ) simply because one group didn't want to eat it but I do hope that schools are catering for those who didn't want to eat pork as well. So it is more about adding instead of subtracting and restricting anyone's personal choice.
Ah, I understand what you're saying @lucygarrod, so I didn't complete the picture entirely.
In our example of the schools, there WERE multiple other options on the menus. The point was that pork should be removed because "it was offensive" to even HAVE it in a place where people eat. In other words, here the immigrant movement (representing 7% of the students) wanted NOBODY to have pork (meaning 100% of the students).
As much as anything, it's about respect and tolerance of those who are not like us. Unfortunately, there seems to be an "energy" in the world these days that we can't each have "our own" way, we can only have MY way, to the exclusion of YOU way. And I think that's just WRONG.
I am with you completely :)
I absolutely dislike those who try to impose their own ideas of what is right on others. One group can never make such a request without assuming that "they" are somehow superior to the other group and know what is good for others. If muslims in Denmark would like everyone to stop eating pork because it offends the muslim community, I think vegetarians of Denmark should ask them to stop eating meat all together because it offends vegetarians to see people eating meat ;)
I do agree with you that there is an energy around the world where "our way" is better than others and this is a truly worrying situation. Our world seems to be going backwards and we are fast losing all the liberal ideas that we fought so hard to spread. I think it is very important to have an open discussion about these topics (like they used to have in ancient Greece) and find rational answers to these challenging situations.
Thank you so much for keeping an open mind whilst sharing a different perspective with me :)