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RE: But self upvotes are the problem right?

I personally disagree with this. The whole purpose of gaining steem power is for more influence. Self voting makes your comments more visible and is a way to get a return on your investment over the long haul. I self upvote because it is so tough to get the community to upvote articles. I think this is more ethical than paying for a bot to vote you.

Understand both sides. If steemit didn't allow you to upvote and there was a back door trick then I would agree with you. However, it is an incentive of putting in an actual investment.

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I can agree with this statement. Thank you for being so thorough and honest

Thanks for reading and commenting on my point. I am fine with those that agree and those that disagree with me as long as their thoughts and intentions are to make the community the best they can make it.

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