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RE: Announcing the Delegation Committee
So, being part of @steemalliance, driving force behind Steem Engine, and part of STINC's delegation committee?
I think we lost the decentralized part somewhere. Not that it was to begin with, but dang this seems like a step backwards.
I am slightly concerned about potential conflicts of interest considering he is part owner of Steem Monsters which has also submitted an application.
Personally, I don't think any user whose is also an applicant should be on the committee so there will not be even so much as a hint of impropriety in the process.
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I agree that no one acting as a representative for this program should be allowed to have ownership in projects receiving benefits from the program. That is just a logical rule.
self-voted to counteract downvotes that might reduce visibility.
interesting conversation with @agroed , pay special attention on 49:00 when @agroed admits lying about his work history
and steemit inc wants to put this guy in charge of delegation !?
what a bunch of disgusting crooks
everybody do some research on @agroed and his 'PHD' , something is fishy here
Agree!
Nothing ingenious about selecting representatives to line their own pockets first. Anybody without a high school diploma can do it.
Not saying they should not be paid, as long as they keep their hands off the delegations they are directed to allocate.
I think it is okay for anyone to be on the committee, and you don't generally want people who are uninvolved and uninformed, but they should step aside on any specific cases when their own application (or a directly competing application) is being considered.
For that reason and others it is probably best to have a slightly larger committee.
whats with all this big upvote comment shit circle jerk stuff going on between you and enforcer? You are starting to annoy me a little bit!
Steemit INC is a centralized business and their stake is theirs. The fact they are gathering people from the community to help delegate it I think is a step in the right direction.
It's called conflict of interest regardless of how you try to sugarcoat it
It’s true what you say, but let’s face it @aggroed has proven to make profitable moves and sting can’t seem to do much without him
it is not a conflict of interest, this is not a congressional hearing.
and water is not wet.
I was thinking the same. The reason why we have a delegation application process in the first place could be because of these good men, of course with Steemit Inc.'s support and approval. The good part is that these folks have not been a part of Steemit core team but the community members who stand out due to their kickass work.
Also, conflict of interest arise when @aggored was chosen as the only committee member. There are other two folks as well, damn good at what they do. From different backgrounds with different projects, they will have a say as well in the delegation process. And then Steemit Inc., will(read "have to") ensure the process to be transparent and corruption free without influencing their decision. [They have mentioned this in the blog].
I think we should give all of them a chance to prove themselves as a team now. The crazy part is that things are moving forward.
#NewSteem Next Stop? Phobos!
I understand that part. I was merely pointing out the slight conflict of interest. @aggroed has contributed a lot to our ecosystem, no doubt about it.
It just seems odd to have him participate in the figurative executive, legislative, and judicial branch all at the same time.
I'm sure we will be fine, though. This place needs strong leaders to lead it out of the bear.
Aggroed is just a beast TBH. He steps up and takes on responsibly like a champion. Hats off to him.
Yes, let's place more conspiracy nuts into power positions. What a great idea.
Oh, Christ...he's a conspiracy nut too? Like a flat-earther, or just a run-of-the-mill conspiracy theorist?
The US orchestrated 9/11 kind of conspiracy theorist. I recall he thinks the earth is flat as well, I think we talked about that on the subway when I met him a few years back. His PhD in chemistry is not an illustration of his capacity for logical thought.
He's not a mean guy, I can give him that. However some of the early conversations I had with him, will forever discredit him to me.
You can certainly find blogs of his where he refers to himself as a "truther" which is just a cutie term for nutbag. There's a good reason why the man's own family doesn't enjoy his presence.
Good grief.
WOW so your attacking the man saying his own family doesnt like him? How the FUCK would you know?
And you THINK hes a flat earther? Now thats a "Micro slander" if I ever read one!
What if someone just said they THINK you were a pedophile?
Should we judge peoples character based on some "talk on the subway" you claim to have had?
Im willing to bet money you have never met the man, and are simply another loser jealous of the success he has had, because your own investment in steem didn't turn out so well.
He said so himself in a recent post.
https://steemit.com/palnet/@aggroed/vacation
You could bet that money, but we've met more than once. So you would lose the bet.
Oh, I've been here since 2016. My investment in steem turned out just fine :) I've been around for the run from $0.07 to $7.
I mean, OK. He's in the legislative branch. True. Now he's in the judicial. Also true. Executive, not really. However, do you have anyone else you think would be a better fit? He or she must possess the following attributes:
Is there politics here? Meh. Sure. There ALWAYS IS! But I'm telling you, I'd rather have him deciding who gets what for the mere fact that he knows what looks like it will work and what won't. We're not here to waste resources. I don't think this is a bad decision. But I guess we'll find out, won't we?
How about you try and give me other names. And we'll debate it.
I guess by your criteria, not even the people who were in the Working Groups of the Foundation would qualify.
But, that's besides the point. Like you said, we wait and see.
I don't know who was in the working groups, and I'm sure they qualify more than anyone else. But I do think the criteria above can't hurt. I think if you're going to be going around delegating buttloads of SP, you oughta have at least some business acumen, and something to show for your dedication and personal investment.
In this case, sunk cost is a motivator....bias or not.
I totally agree with you. And maybe it's just difficult to find people who are eligible for the position and not being involved in major Steem projects.
I think so too, also i think the guys will make a great job, because there stay in puplic and nobody want drama :)
I agree. In fact, I've been WAITING for them to take the leap. Is it going to be perfect? No. Will the priority be to increase the value and usership of steem?
Yep.
Will it primarily be designed to benefit steemit inc?
Yep.
Is that a bad thing?
Nope. Not as long as the people who get the delegation are legitimately bringing in the bacon, making it a stronger place, and working toward making this platform a household name. I couldn't care LESS who gets the delegation, as long as their goal is to positively affect our growth with DAPPS and projects that bless and help others besides just us!
Yeah i have actually interacted with and gotten organic upvotes from all 3 of these users and recognized all 3 of these names as TRUE steemians who I recognize as being active in the trenches, more so than myself. I feel like @aggroed deserves to get delegation for his project because it will employ so many people, and if he has to be on the committee to get that passed, its not a freakin conflict oif interests, what is this the government? This is steem and its about time community leaders are recognized, so lets applaud steemit inc's new Executive @elipowell for creating the space to allow for a delegation committee to give aggroed some credit in an official steemit inc position..... because he represents the interests of many steemians, and is a sort of Elon Musk character with his hands in many successful projects. If we just had 10 more @aggroed 's each withtheir own unique steem dapp or game as big as steem monsters, steem engine, palnet.io SCOT communities, each one a separate innovation and accomplishment...
I appreciate all of the concerns but Steemit inc cant afford to NOT have aggroed AND why shouldn't steem monsters get delegation?!
Seriously now.. think about this ... what conflict of interest is there really but your own conflict with the interests of steem and steemit inc being able to bless a successful dapp like steemmonsters with delegation otherwise going toi some other project... but with steemmonsters we could onboard and reward and Afford SO MUCH more...
conflicts of interest happen if aggroed could reward himself here, and he wont be able to. So yeah sorry, it would be a conflict of interest if he was able to fund his own projects but he wont be able to do this is all just a bunch of nitpicking from jelous people
Yeah i have actually interacted with and gotten organic upvotes from all 3 of these users and recognized all 3 of these names as TRUE steemians who I recognize as being active in the trenches, more so than myself. I feel like @aggroed deserves to get delegation for his project because it will employ so many people, and if he has to be on the comittee to get that passed, its not a freakin conflict oif interests, what is this the government? This is steem and its about time community leaders are recognized, so lets applaud steemit inc's new Executive @elipowell for creating the space to allow for a delegation committee to give aggroed some credit in an official steemit inc position..... because he represents the interests of many steemians, and is a sort of Elon Musk character with his hands in many successful projects. If we just had 10 more @aggroed 's each withtheir own unique steem dapp or game as big as steem monsters, steem engine, palnet.io SCOT communities, each one a separate innovation and accomplishment...
I apreciate all of the concerns but Steemit inc cant afford to NOT have aggroed AND why shoudlnt steem monsters get delegation?!
SERIOUSLy now.. think about this ... what conflict of interst is there really but your own conflict with the interests of steem and steemit inc being able to bless a succesful dapp like steemmonsters with delegation otherwised going toi some otehr project... but with steemmonsters we could onbaord and reward and Afford SO MUCH more...
Let's look it up in the dictionary:
You may well be right that @aggroed's delegation proposal deserves to be approved. If so then people on the committee without a direct personal interest should see that too.
And aggroed is not allowed to gift his own projects, obviously, so just no, sorry , not a conflict of interest and @steemit @andrarchy and @aggroed will agree
if you start calling conflict of interest on everyone with a successful steem project then you will have no one left to fill the positions
this is nit picking
Free delegation to one's own project is certainly a personal benefit. Denying said delegation to a directly competing project would also be a personal benefit. Read the definition again, it doesn't say anything about gifting.
Nowhere did I say people should be excluded from the positions, only that they should decline to take part in specific decision where there is a direct conflict. This is easy to do and not disruptive as long as there is a slightly larger committee or alternates.
Practically every decision making body in the world uses this procedure.
Gifting delegation, giving delegation, your just arguing semantics now...
When i said gift you knew what I meant, delegating... gifting a delegation, giving a delegation, great what have we done here? argue semantics, cool
no one is giving free delegation to ones own project and no one is going to deny others LOL
Its a catch 22! under your scenarios @aggroed can't help but do something wrong!
And please, tell us about how we should just start using the rules and regulations put forth by all the existing governments on earth, yeah great idea. Should we start using Roberts Rules of order while were at it? Why not just start electing representatives for each region, to spend delegation based on geographic population densities... why not just turn steemit inc into the government where we can't ever get anything done because of all the red tape!
Read this: your nitpicking and arguing semantics.
Nope, just step aside in specific case if a direct conflict exists. Not catch 22 at all. Easy.
I said nearly every decision making body. That's more than governments, it is also company boards, clubs, charities, etc.
Really this concept is basic and I don't know why you are getting yourself so worked up or confused over it.
I do know that your comments aren't adding value so I'm going to go ahead and make a little downvote to offset your undeserved self-upvote.
All of your comments actually REMOVED value from steem so they deserve to be downvoted as well. Oh look at that your childish attitude as just accomplished nothing! congratulations
You are 100% jealous of @aggroed or you wouldn't be here complaining :D
I think you are corrupt
!dramatoken
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lol they never really cared about decentralization, boy!
dont believe what people tell ya. next step would be voluntarily paying compulsory levy..
wait.
I thought we already do? lol
Yeah. That's the joke.
Thats why I wrote wait
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There was never the ,,decentralized part'' in this story.
It's just a buzz word.
And you are correct.
It's not a bad thing really. I think most of us care more about this place being successful than
decentralized.For me decentralization would be success.
Money is not everything.
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einfach zurrück lehnen. Es wird bald richtig dumme Gesichter geben :)
PS. people here dont get the point of what they call "decentralization". Centralization brings efficiency but introduces fragility to a system: a brain is highly efficient but a small aneurysm can destroy the integrity of the system and kill the organism within a few seconds. Centralization only works when its generated by an evolutionary algorithm. When you force an entity into a centralized role (like in a "Putsch") the system dies shortly after. This is why dictatorships fail.
A dPOS System or a DAO can only exist in a decentralized fashion ... by definition. You either can have a heavy centralized and efficient but fragile system or you have a maximum redundant DAO which is by design platform grade censorship-resistant and tamper-resistant but really resilient and inefficient OR you have BULLSHIT
Crypto-illiteracy and stupidity. PPS. we should shut the fuck up we are not business-minded and dumb kids :3
:3
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Keep dreaming.
I will. One of the last few..
All you others just do what u're told?
offtopic: do you have an oldtimer, or is it just ur name?
Just a steem name.
Hmm ok :/
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Well, you can have your decentralized among the few thousand of you (who really care and would stay JUST for the decentralized aspect, itself). I'd rather have slightly less centralized than what's out there (Facebook, Twitter, YouTube, etc) with many millions of active users.
Decentralization for decentralization's sake simply isn't an attractive enough proposition to bring longevity (success) to this, or any, platform, IF by "success" we aim to include anything beyond one percent of one percent of once percent of potential users (at the order of merely thousands of active users).
I'm not in the "more the merrier" camp by any means, but there's a line where you're simply irrelevant as a "get the word out there" platform, and it's WELL ABOVE the 4~8 thousand active user level. It's probably more around the million to 10 million active users, on the low end, 100 million just to be safe.
Maybe, maybe not. But, at least this way, business-minded people like me and you can actually throw something together that has a fighting chance in this god-forsaken world of upvotes.
Maybe it's nothing more than a symbiotic relationship. But I'll tell you what. Why don't you go find another place anywhere else in the world where you can get this kind of delegated support to charge up your own business, without having to do a credit check, offer a collateral, and give over your first born child just to get ahead?
Delegation will go to those who have a plan to grow the blockchain from outside in. Tell me how that is NOT decentralized.
Delegations will go to the chosen ones.
When you'll find one from outside the USA, please let me know.
100% agree. It's bullshit.
To have proper governance we need to have a conversation about who controls the repos. That's why btc chainsplit and Steem is not immune . It has lost some "steem" obviously , users left for other chains because they felt their voice wasn't heard.(many dpos forks exist now) Let people debate and have a voice and this chain can/will change the world . It's the best data chain I know of, we only need more nodes and liquidity. Without decentralization and liquiditiy, the best technology in our field means nothing to the future investors .
You've got DRAMA. You are going to be a Whale!
To view or trade
DRAMAgo to steem-engine.com.Since @aggroed is one of the few top20 witnesses without a vote from @freedom, I would say he is the people’s candidate. Sure he has conflicts of interest, but anyone who would be an acceptable candidate will as well. If the platform succeeds, he is a very wealthy man and that will make us all very happy. A rising tide lifts all boats.
Not even close to accurate
Yeah, here's the problem with these conflicts...
With the Steem Alliance, he's sitting on the board (if I'm not mistaken) and will presumably have rather large influence over foundation proceedings, procedures, and any kind of committee selections they make there (if any). Of course this is assuming that this foundation actually goes anywhere. As more time passes, it looks like this will probably be defunct soon, or rendered pretty much irrelevant.
As a committee member for this STINC delegation, he will be charged with approving or disapproving support for businesses and/or development and marketing projects that may very well compete with his own - or he will be charged with approving or disapproving support for those businesses and projects that directly and positively impact his own projects/community.
As the owner of Steem Engine, he has many different token owners, communities, and developers that will likely be submitting delegation and funding requests from both the foundation (if it becomes a thing) and STINC's delegation program. Any funding or delegation for these tokens/communities/developers will very likely directly and indirectly benefit him financially.
Sure, aggroed (actually, his developers) get some stuff done (whether it has made a difference in adoption or value is certainly debatable), but there's absolutely no reason why he ought to be on this delegation committee. Can STINC really not find a third person to take that spot instead? Were there only three potential candidates? If so, we're worse off than I had originally thought.
Who, excluding yourself, would you have liked to see in this position then?
It seems rather unlikely to me that there'll be many with a proven record on Steem that has not already built or run something which could have a conflict of interest.
You seem to think that every user on Steem is somehow involved in businesses or projects that would conflict with vetting people and making decisions about delegations. I can tell you that most users have no such roles in businesses and projects. And as @jamesbrown said - there is a much larger ocean outside of this tiny Steem puddle.
But more to the point...
Why must we have Aggroed and somebody who does work for Aggroed (Eonwarped) on this committee, given the many conflicts that Aggroed himself has in all of this? Why must we have Starkerz on this committee, given his role in at least four projects on Steem (Oracle-D, Promo-Steem, 3Speak, and the SBA through his role with Oracle-D) - which I assume would be seeking delegations, as at least one of them I know has received delegation from STINC already?
Two of the three committee members have major conflicts of interest and one has a conflict through his work with one of them. And all three, as far as I can tell, have pretty much zero relevant business/social media experience when it comes to vetting viable projects for this blockchain. That's the underlying issue. The conflicts of interest just make this much, much worse.
There's a big world outside of the Steem blockchain of potential "recruits" (with their own track-records in related fields) for a governance position. It doesn't have to come from within this small pond.
Then you would have to set aside a budget to pay those people a wage. They wouldn't do it voluntarily.
Even at current prices this is an asset worth many millions of dollars that is being managed. A budget is not unreasonable.
Of course. If public image is of any importance to Steemit, side stepping situations such as we find here with @aggroed (conflict of interest) should be a high priority, IMO.
It all boils down to a very simple question: is more money gained/ lost in the long-run (all things considered) by hiring on someone from the inside with a blatantly obvious conflict of interest or from the outside, in someone who requires an additional wage (but is also likely more qualified for the position, as he/she is chosen from a pool that consists of billions of people compared to the few thousand that exist on chain, and doesn't come along with the COI label)?
My guess is that investor confidence in Steem is not high at the moment (feel free to guess why I've come to that assessment). I also guess that it'll not grow from Steemit's decision here, but I could be wrong. Time (money) will tell.