Steem Gamblers Association SGA: Fairbet
There's no regulation and a lack of fairness in cryptocurrency gambling so @fullcoverbetting and I have decided to start a players association to monitor Steem based casinos. Fairness means more than just not rigging bets and stealing players money. Fairness means impartial treatment to all parties which including both the users and the stakeholders. We have seen @magicdice pull an exit scam after faking volume and not paying their stakeholders. When dividends are promised, it means you no longer own 100% of the revenues and are now accountable to every single token holder. Not paying dividends on time and in full to every account is inexcusable @Steem-bet this is directed at you!
The Steem Gamblers Association will rank and monitor betting sites
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If you design a better image/logo for Fairbet and the Steem Gamblers Association I will reward you with 1 Steem or and SBI share
Propose Rating Criteria
- Communication with users: Strong or Weak @magicdice barely communicated with their users the past couple of months before exiting.
- Quality of Communication: Good or Bad @steem-bet maintains frequent albeit poor quality communication.
- Community Involvement: Positive or Neutral. Do they utilize their SP and RC to benefit the Steem Community or are they leeches siphoning value?
- Maintenance Issues: Yes or No. @epicdice went down a few times last month and didn't have a significant update, they were fixing something. It raises suspicions if it's recent and frequent.
- Automatic Refund Issues: Yes or No. @kryptogames frequently has bets not registering. They blame it on the blockchain but they take your money and only give it back if you ask them. I am certain many people didn't notice and Kryptogames kept their money. It's unacceptable that players have to ask for a refund, I have personally had to do this dozens of times.
- Volume: High or Low. @cupz has low volume it can be a blessing or a curse but when a site is not making money there is a higher risk that it will shut down.
- Anonymity: Yes or No. Many of the owners choose to remain anonymous, they have their reasons which definitely don't instill trust.
- Fake Volume: Yes or No. Even worse than having no volume is faking volume.
- Roadmap/Fake Promises: Yes or No. When a DApp has a roadmap is it following it? Are they behind on their promises?
- Investment issues: Yes/No. @klye doesn't deal with tokens or dividend on https://www.steem-roller.com/# instead you can directly invest in the house. Other sites promise dividends to token holders and don't pay them @steem-bet
- Referral Program: Good or Bad. Some sites allow you to change your referral, others don't. Some have good referral programs, others don't.
- Tokens: Good/Bad/NA. Some sites have tokens that are tradeable on @aggroed's website https://steem-engine.com if you can't trade a token it isn't really yours.
What are some other Criteria to Add before I write an intro post for @fairbet
@fairbet will be an account for the Steem Gamblers Association so players can go there to research, complain, compliment and discuss gambling DApps. We will update it regularly I invite @xyashu, @hitmeasap, @diehard2k9, @emrebeyler, @dicetime, @backjungmin, @balticbadger, @jplabs, @mcenoramle, @oldtimer, @donald.porter, @glastar, @thomasgutierrez, @abrockman, @thegoliath and anyone else who plays or plans on gambling to follow @fairbet and provide suggestions as to how I can operate this below. We'd like to make an Intro post soon.
Thank You for Your TIme and Opinion please follow @fairbet for future updates
I think the logo should read "STEEM" gamblers association, given the other networks cropping up lately (ie weedcash, pal etc)... STEEMit has no connection with these games but the blockchain does. Aside from that it sounds like a great initiative, I've been burnt too often and rarely play anything other than DrugWars anymore.
The only way to be successful is to demand KYD (know your developer) or AMA's from the founders/developers. Problem is, most of these dApps cannot attain licences for numerous reasons from jurisdiction to cost. If they release identity data, they risk going to jail and/or worse: creating a chain that may end up with popular players getting subpoenas (a la SEC).
It's a dilemma, but ranting at them will (never) help if they can just pack up and leave without a trace. The best we can do is provide warnings to fellow Steemies and down-vote the scam accounts to hell...
Now that I think about it, LETS DO THIS! 🤣😂
Update: You will need a developer who can check/validate smart contracts and dApp code/s. Having a 'quantstamp' like service on STEEM is a good look, without that we can never be 100% sure about a casino project. Probably Fair also means open source and most forget this.
Thanks, I updated it and will add it as the picture to the new account soon.
It's not important that we get their DNA and fingerprints, the SEC can find out who these people are if they care to. I would just like to know a little bit about them, like what country they are operating from, languages the teams speak, the related Steemit accounts, etc. It builds trust. I don't share my name either but I would be happy to if it were anonymous to prove my age and country of residence to play in accordance with the law.
It's a great idea to have someone look at the coding but if enough of us talk about these sites we will be able to share our experiences and should notice if anything odd is happening. If I've seen a few 1/100000 events in a row I would want to audit their codes. If it happens once or twice I can understand but it's good to see how often it is happening and to how many people. At least we can share our experiences to see if there is a pattern in the 'randomness'
We need a forum that is not controlled by any one particular gambling site but they are all welcomed and encouraged to join our discussion. The plan is to make a discord with general chatting, post sharing that's topical and announcements. If a site has a positive review in most of the categories it can be extremely beneficial and they will want to be on our good side. We can also share posts comparing the odds and expected return from dividends on these sites now that the tokens are starting to settle at a particular value. There is a lot of confusion.
Welp, not much we can do then. It's impossible to hold people accountable without their ID info (not sure where dna came from but ok). The minute you go snooping, they leave, creeate a new account and scam at us again... ie. if Magic Dice or SteemBet rebrands they will just scam everyone (again).
Look at SteemBet, we tried diplomacy, that didn't work. In fact it allowed them to scam more Steemians down the line after appeasing us with the 5X. Personally, from now on, I'll only invest my time in games where I can:
Anything else may help, but honesly the'll just play us again without those two factors. That goes for most dApps and blockchains outside of STEEM.
The fact that we can actually flag down the accounts is a huge plus, but it doesn't stop them from evolving each time and scamming us again.
As for the forum, we try StateOfTheDapps, dAppRadar, Twitter, can even create a forum on STEEM using #Tokenbb... but it's all in vein if we cannot stop them from the rinse and repeat nature of these dApps.
Hire a dev to work with SGA and I'll delegate SP for sure.
I made a Discord https://discord.gg/REEd2m which should be fine for now along with comments in a weekly post. This can evolve if there is more of a need, I am not asking for SP, Steem or $ at this point, I am only asking for information and opinions. If someone finds this information useful, tips are always welcome. I just hope to save people's time and money from future scammers.
I agree with you completely about not investing in sites where the owners are anonymous and you know I brought this up a few times when asked about my interest in buying SPT. Everyone should be able to go to a centralized account, @fairbet to see all the information regarding Steem gambling sites in one place side by side. It can make weekly posts with an updated chart showing the info we need to know. Anonymous = Yes or No, I definitely don't recommend giving your money or Steem to anonymous internet accounts. If owners of an account want SGA to remove the anonymous flag, they have to identify themselves. There are NO EXCEPTIONS. There can be levels too, such as associated accounts with real-life photos (facebook/linked-in,) actual government id with a person holding it and the date handwritten like sites do, etc. I am even willing to keep this info confidential if they are afraid to publically broadcast it. Let's just say if they can't trust the Steem Gamblers Association to confidentially verify their identity then we shouldn't trust them.
Again, I am not asking for a delegation, between Fullcoverbetting and my delegation's, it should be more than enough to make a post a week. The threat of having a Gamblers Association flag your DApp should be enough to entice one to act fairly. Put it this way, @steem-bet is flagged right now, I do not recommend playing there. The rest of the sites are neutral at this time.
I think the delegation will help deter bad actors, the more the better as the down-vote will be significantly harsher. Accepting delegation from everyone can also help when upvoting posts from approved games, whistle blowers etc
SteemBet is small fries, @fairbet needs to be able to knock down a $500 promo post to be efficient. We never know what they may come with in the future 🤔
As an association, can we vote on these issues/features?
I did delegate 100SP to the fairbet account!
Thanks, I will too and I'll set it to upvote all your posts.
Awesome write up, mate. I am keen to contribute whenever I can with monitoring and giving advice to people on the gambling dapps.
So far, @kryptogames and @cupz are my favourite, with @epicdice being a pretty good site so far too.
But if a site starts withdrawing large amounts of excess steem to deepcrypto8, like @steem-bet did over time, when people lost heaps, then they seem a little dodgy.
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I like all those sites and have no serious issues with any of them but none of these sites can be trusted yet as they are all very new.
Transferring Steem anywhere except maybe to a 2nd wallet for safety before a DApp makes significant profit is dodgy.
I'm not a huge gambler, but I like the idea of an association, some of you guys and the people you tagged do play a lot. It leaves me to wonder if the others are bots or just accounts that gamble. I did notice that you left out a few other big names. I guess if you build it they will come.
For your discord, I suggest if people don't want to KYD, at least offer them an official account and a chat room focused on their platform, it's up to them if they want to join there at all, offer support there or elsewhere
I don't want to tag everyone and am leaving that for @fairbet to do in the first post. This is just for ideas. I don't expect every site to KYD, it's just one point out of many. They will be flagged for not identifying themselves at all and identfying themselves a little.
Gambling sites can have their own discord. They are welcome to drop by the general chat and we can identify them as an official account behind the site. I highly recommend they do.
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Greap post @crypticat! Let's try to protect some others.
@broncnutz we would be happy if you could support/join us!
Cheers,
Peter
yes, please let everyone know, I will tag even more people when I write a post for fairbet and set up the discord
There should be something simpler as well like a trust rating based on the above qualifications. A top tier rating would mean the site is fully licensed and accredited and the lowest tier rating meaning there has been a proven scam.
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Ratings are subjective because certain things are worse than others. The plan is to just present the situation and let players know the risks associated with these sites. I don't recommend mining tokens period, they are worth much less than the cost of losing a bet most trade for a thousandth of a steem or worse. Play for fun not to collect tokens.
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Overall I agree. My thought was just to simplify the rating for people unwilling to go through an in-depth overview.
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I will probably include a score but it won't mean much since all the categories will be valued the same. But yeah, we will have a warning and a neutral rating. If a site has a warning be extra careful. I'd stay away from Steem-Bet right now.
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Fair enough. Best of luck with the endeavour!
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Great initiative, I new something good would come out of all this scamming. I just hope we can build some volume and prove our worth. As I have always said, we are very open to improvement suggestions and tend to get things done quickly. Here's to the future of STEEM gambling.
Sp far so good. Keep it up Cupz!
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!tip 1.7 Steem
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Thank you for your generosity!
Thank you for always making sure i get little dividends but get too hooked to stop gambling A.K.A (stealing my money) glad you set up a "Union" for us hooked Steem gamblers xD
This is a great idea. At least there will be no repeat of the magic dice scam
I'm sure there will be a repeat of such a scam, our focus should be on minimizing the impact. We need a place for people to post. If we had known accounts were not getting dividends regularly, they stopped communicating months ago and there is fake volume to make it look good hopefully more people would have stopped playing sooner. SGA will be a hub for info.
Good idea, followed the account!
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Thanks and I hope you let us know if there is anything suspicious going on