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RE: Vegan Anarchy: Do animals have the right to life, liberty & the pursuit of happiness?
Animals don't have reason, which is crucial for understanding rights, and in consequence to be a moral being. Wolf doesn't act wrong when it kills sheep. It cannot do right or wrong because it cannot act in accordance with any moral principle, it doesn't know any concepts (self-ownership, privite property and so on), only feelings, sensations, instincts. If you don't understand Rothbard explaining natural law, read Kant instead, he was true moral philosopher and true libertarian.
Animals not having reason is not a justification to torture and murder them. We do not kill and eat retards for that very reason. There are many human beings who are actually lower in intelligence than animals, but we do not eat them because a lack of reason and intellect is not a justification for murder.
We are supposed to protect the most vulnerable members of society, not abuse them.
So how do you propose dealing with all of these "rights" violations being committed by other creatures on the planet, most of which are killing and eating one another? Must humans intervene to stop this? From an animal's perspective, it's irrational to think they would only object to being killed and eaten by a human and not some other animal.
Comparing a wolf killing a sheep and what is outlined in this Post is ridiculous to say the least.
The sheep had the free will to be there and there was a chance of it escaping. But for the slaughtered animals they have no choice. Everything in their life is predetermined by us. If they live or die, if they get to walk or stand in one place for the whole duration of their life, if they get to keep their offspring next to them, any and all aspects of their existence is in our hands.
We must not also forget here that a century ago there were a group of people just like you and me called "slaves" who also did not have RIGHTS. Looking back we can see the evolution of that scenario.
Sheep don't have anything like free will, because free will needs abstract thinking, thinking about the future, possibilities. Animal is always now and here, and reacts to the envirement according to instincts and previously learned reflexes. Animals in slaughterhouse can escape as well, we are just better predators then wolfs so it happens rarely. It's not a point anyway. And slaves were people and possessed reason, therefore slavery always was and will be violation of natural rights of the people. Nothing comparable to animal breeding.
Well we can go on and on about this can't we?
Anyway whatever you say will not alter my Respect for animals and my disgust for how they are treated.
My point about the slaves was that there were people who thought about slaves just like you are thinking about animals. But we all know that they were proven wrong.
Also simply without much elaboration on anything about animals having "rights" or not or if they are "conscious" or not or even if they have "free will" or not, how about if we all just start by SIMPLY RESPECTING ALL LIVING BEINGS. Adjusting our thoughts slightly towards respect will change a huge lot and go a long way.
I can respect my animals very much, but do not confuse it with animal having rights, because it's nonsense. I can respect my chickens, treat them well and then eat them, nothing wrong with that.
They aren't "rights" violations because it's part of nature for some animals to use other animals as food.
Animals have a level of reasoning or intelligence. Some more than others. I absolutely know for a fact my dog Jack (deceased) who knew over 50 words and most definitely could reason had an advanced, for a dog, personality. Same can be said for whales, corvids (crows etc.) certain other birds, elephants, etc. Elephants for instance have strong powers of memory and display a sense of morality and even an advanced, for animals, sense of community and duty. Consciousness is not a singular point but is rather a sliding scale. Humans for instance can be downright animals with little or no moral compass or compassion but they can also reach states of higher consciousness. Anyway, off subject a bit there. It seems to me as one moves up the scale in consciousness one feels more compassion, courage, love, wholeness, etc., and one frequently views life in all its forms as sacred. In the lower frequencies of pure survival, without moral boundaries inhibiting behavior, survival is the Law and the way of nature. The question in my mind is this: as we humans rise up beyond base survival instincts, which would include killing and eating whatever one can, do we find a valid, moral, imperative to NOT kill? Science has now proven that plants "communicate" and indeed show some functions of consciousness. We instinctively show very little remorse in killing and eating a plant because we don't recognize any consciousness in them. I suspect too many humans feel ok eating a dumb chicken but would not consider eating a dog (exempting many asians who partake). In Holland you may see horses out to pasture. They are being raised for human consumption. Amazing. So perhaps as we rise in awareness and consciousness so too will our compassion and sense of sacredness for all things.
Intelligence has nothing to do with reason. Animal can know the meaning of some symbols because it has good memory, but cannot grasp any logical relations between the symbols, therefore it cannot learn any language. It can't understand the meaning of sentences, and ethical principles or laws always are sentences, imperatives. Some people, children for example, can't do that as well but they still have rights (shouldn't be killed) because of their potential of reason, just as every person when it is asleep or drunk. And animals can be killed by it's human owner and it is nothing morally worse then sheep killed by a wolf.