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RE: Weekly Newsletter - 4th edition
I think ultimately vegans are correct about the plants feeling pain not being a valid argument. However, to pretend we understand how their experience is derived neurologically is pretending to know something we do not know.
I personally believe plants are extremely intelligent, and do feel suffering as intensely as us. However, while I can live without animal products, I must consume plants to survive. That is the relevant factor.
If you say that ''vegans are correct about the plants feeling pain not being a valid argument'' and then that ''they feel suffering as intensely as us..'' it sounds like you are contradicting yourself.
Yes, plants are extremely intelligent, but there are various forms of intelligence in nature. In humans there is emotional, intellectual, biological, etc.
What is primitive/unintelligent is the blood shedding and deliberate torture of innocent beings at the hands of ''intellectual''beings, the human'kind'.
I am not contradicting myself, so I suspect it's not clear what I'm saying.
I suspect plants feel pain when harvested and consumed, but if I don't eat them I will die, so I will eat them anyway. Animals definitely feel pain when harvested (and even while being farmed) but I don't need to eat them to survive.
I did not choose to live in a world where I must kill to live, but I will choose to survive anyway while also attempting to minimize the inevitable suffering which results.
It'd be great if it turned out to be true that plants don't suffer, but it feels like we're kidding ourselves to claim to know for certain that they don't. We simply don't know that for sure, and my research leads me to believe they probably do.
I sure hope they don't suffer @cahlen. I'm not a scientist but from what I understand they can have defense systems and chemical reactions without actually being conscious...I don't know if plants are self aware. Maybe science will tell us more in the future.
I hope they don't either. However, science does not understand how biology generates conscious experience, and I suspect it never will.
Consider aliens coming upon a man with "locked in syndrome", where he can feel and sense his environment normally but is completely unable to act, speak, etc. They could burn him and measure his chemical response (which is similar to plants), but they may ultimately conclude he felt no pain because he did not protest, when in fact he felt it very intensely.
very true!!! good example
I understand what you're saying. Though I have no doubt plants have a powerful energy system, if I don't pick an apple to eat it, it will fall to the ground anyway. If I don't pick the grapes from the vine, they will wither anyway, same goes for lettuce, etc. If I don't 'pick' a cow, it most certainly will carry on living.
I don't believe fruits suffer. I'm talking about the plants themselves (i.e. eating leaves, roots, etc.).
I'm mostly fruitarian. I consider it a crime to harm the plants and trees themselves, not the leaves and fruits, but the mothers of all fruits.
For health reasons I can't digest roots so that's not even an issue for me. And we can do just fine without them. As for leaves, I consider them the edible part of a plant.
My diet is very limited thanks to celiac disease, but I am and look very healthy. People don't believe me when I tell them I have a chronic disease....I think knowing how to get all your nutrients is key.
Nice, I hope to move more in that direction, so it's good to hear you're maintaining good health.
What are the foods you eat the most of?
The fruits I rely on daily are bananas, blueberries, dates, pineapples and apples. I wish I could splurge on mangos and papayas, but they are hard to find ripe. It would be a feast, if I lived near the tropics. Montreal is not fruit heaven...
I buy stacks of frozen bluebberies and pineapples as it is hard to find them ripe and they are very instrumental to my daily well-being.
For the fats I eats lots of avaocados, hemp, flax seeds., sesame /tahini.
Grains: buckwheat, teff, millet
Squashes are in season :D
Leafy greens: lettuce, spinach, arugola
The moringa power has been a super healing and nutritional addition in the past 2 years.
I also eat fermented foods, like kimchi and saurkraut and kombucha. It seems like I'm making progress as I have been able to eat miso without side effects. I wish I could eat kelp to get an abundance of good bacteria, but I'm not there yet.
I doubt Japanese people suffer from gastro-intestinal diseases.....!
Celiac disease is a common disease in Italy, pasta land. :) Entire aisles in supermarkets have been dedicated to gluten-free products already in the past 15 years....
Awesome informative, thank you @mirella!
thanks for stopping by @cahlen btw =) Are you vegan or vegetarian?
Thanks @evecab! I was a raw vegan for a year, and a vegetarian several other times. I wasn't able to maintain health back then, but have more knowledge now, so am trying again.
However, I prefer not to use the labels because it's a bit messier than that. I prefer to just focus on minimizing harm, and that happens to align with vegan/vegetarianism most of the time.
That's great!!! I'm the same, I don't really fit in a label either, although vegan is what describes me the best I guess. I usually call myself cruelty free, although now with the plant topic maybe that's not true anymore LOL =) Anyways, who cares about labels, feel free to join our discord for more interesting discussions =)
Thank you, I'd be glad to join the Discord Channel. I use a different account now than when we were don't Sandbox. Are you able to send an invite link to my email address [email protected]?
sure! You can also just click on the discord logo at the bottom of the newsletter, but will send it