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RE: UserAuthority (UA): explanations, applications and implications

in #utopian-io7 years ago (edited)

Great job @scipio, resteemed this one, as I think it is the most easy to understand for most Steem members.

Code is law, something that would be my prefered way to keep most comprimised human behaviour out of a system, also spam-bots are being made by humans. By bubbling up something that could be considered as natural social human behaviour patterns. Where the corrupted ones would sink through the filter maze into the virtual mud.

One challenge I saw was the implementation into the blockchain realm of Steem. It would very possibly need an external database structure, as you mentioned. Too complex to do with the way Steem stores its data, or maybe it can be done, in a simplified way, don't know. Thinking about an ongoing proces. That keeps updating with every new follower for an account and stores it in a block. But I guess that is to much overhead for the Steem blockchain to be able to deal with.

Then it would be best to use it in relation with a User Interface, like SteemIt dot Com, although the use of the API would still allow surpassing it. As it could not be wise to make the Steem blockchain depend on a more or less centralized database system. Implemented in a way images and videos are handled externaly by IPFS and hyperlinked in a post. Then the UA value would be calculated externaly and kept updated just like a links to an external source would be used.

It would be great if it could make Steem get better, in making sure valued content is added. As that is how I see it, not perse as guaranteed good or quality content. It depends, as I see it, on what accounts the majority of Steem members follow. That make it for others interresting to follow too. There is an economical incentive there too. Following popular accounts, will give you a better UA [EDIT-2: Just the other way around makes sense, getting followed by popular account that have a high UA...] And all of this could do good for the Steem market price. As it would attract more members in, it would make Steem more like a popularity magnet.

Wonder how this would work out with the UA system you suggest. As I do think myself that something being considered popular, thus gaining more follower attraction, would not be a guarantee to deliver good quality. Although for a part that could be considered subjective. Besides the several clear benefits, like restricting downvoting and calculating the potential payout in a differente way, I am curious on how that might evolve.

[EDIT: removed a part of the text that on second thought I did consider irrelevant.]

This is me thinking while I type from what it triggered for me after reading both your blogposts. No idea if it makes any sense. But this is what my thoughts were so far.

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Hi @oaldamster

  • we both know a wise man who said "playing simple football is hard". Let's try anyway, because "if you don't shoot, you can't score a goal"
  • in your reasoning, there's an error. You said ...

There is an economical incentive there too. Following popular accounts, will give you a better UA

  • it's the other way around: having a popular account to follow you means you'll be rewarded with a higher UA. If a n00b follows a whale, the whale probably won't follow the n00b. The n00b first needs to gather a low-UA audience to resteem the n00b's articles, in order to get noticed by the whales
  • I'll comment on the decentralized database / blockchain problem in my response to @personz's comments.

Sure, if you do not try, you won't know...

And yes, you are right, the reasoning is the other way around, getting popular accounts to follow you. At first I thought that there could be a risk that Steem would become a legend level controlled popularity game. But it does not have to be build around a few accounts with a high UA defining what will become a standard for what is okay, considered good or even quality content.

But also accounts that are into absurdism, as an absurd example, could still get a high UA. Having lots of followers, that each have lots of followers, having each lots of... And so on and so forth.

There is one thing that I do my best to wrap my head around. In the formula you presented, there was no SP considered at first. The value for any account its UA is in effect an accumulation of all following accounts their UA, that depends on their UA, which is an accumulation of their followers UA etcetera. Do you consider it to be a needed part, using it in combination with SP?

Legend levels will then be redefined with a UA value (also taken into account the SP they vested) and Newbie levels will have the lowest UA value possible. Trying to get as many high UA level accounts to follow them. There is the economic encentive. Higher UA, means higher possible payouts, getting even more followers and so on.

This could act like a bubble up - sink down filter mechanism I guess, so no economic incentive to SPAM, or do the famous "Good post" kind of replies. Or the "Follow me and Upvote me now!" pressure replies. Or the link spam replies. As there is a low chance that will be rewarded with a follow of accounts who really put an effort to post and reply. To build a high UA containing (sub)network, a different behaviour pattern would be needed.

With a higher UA of influence as a kind of reward for posting using that appreciated behaviour pattern. What I do wonder is how this could work out for system critical posting accounts for instance. Would freedom of expression still be able to live at the Steem blockchain? Or could it be that it got silenced through this mechanism? Or that could build its own sub-network too, also with a high UA status.

That would make also sense in combination with SMTs. Like an Art sub-network, with their own SMT called Rembrandt would want the artistic contributors to get a part of the RMB reward pool. Not those abusing the art hashtag. But they'd have a low UA anyway, so at the most the'd get a small fraction of the rewards and a lot of unfollows.

Just me thinking out loud again...

The value for any account its UA is in effect an accumulation of all following accounts their UA, that depends on their UA, which is an accumulation of their followers UA etcetera. Do you consider it to be a needed part, using it in combination with SP?

Nope, high-SP is correlated strongly to high-UA, but only as a side-effect:

  • people follow high-SP accounts (for notifications, and to get rewarded via commenting)
  • people also follow low-SP accounts for good content (I value each of my own followers as gold...)
  • ignoring SP into the UA matrix, allows for jailing accounts in the follower matrix (ignore all from-to follows regarding accounts X and Y)
  • UA allows for Democratization of Steem, because many small accounts can collectively decide to unfollow accounts X and Y, effectively taking away their powers:

ref. Proposal HF 22: vote_reward = UA * SP

Thanks, got it.

Just read the extentension part of UA usage in the Steem realm as in being a combination of different metrics.

That too makes sense.

It does, doesn't it! :-)

Yes, it does indeed. ;-)

I kind-of feel proud for how-to embed inside the blockchain. The rest is just a cool way on how to re-use 1960s math.

Great innovation, old school math put to good modern use.

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