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RE: STEEM is still not Steemit, even if Tron buys Steemit.
They're not slaves. I mean maybe they're being paid well to work on Tron, who knows. But if they really want to work on Steem they can always quit that job. The Steem blockchain has its own funding system via SPS which as of today is running about $800K/year, probably enough to pay devs.
We both know a Steem classic token will not retain that value and that will impact the resources flowing to the SPS.
It depends. A well-managed transition wouldn't necessarily change much.
There isn't anything particularly remarkable about the current value. Yes the price has gone up recently and some might attribute that to this announced Tron deal but I'm not so sure. Steem's market cap ranking is about where it was for most of the past year when frankly nothing visible was going on. It seems to be mostly going with the flow of a mild 'alt season'. Actual development supported by SPS would be an improvement.
But of course, we'll have to wait and see how it plays out.
While you're clearly right about all else herein, it's just unreasonable to fail to anticipate a price decrease with a fork under such conditions IMHO. It's not like history hasn't provided examples.
If 'Steem Classic', or Gold, or Cash, or whatever name the new chain settles on, rises in price rather than declines, it would be the first fork to do so.
None of the other blockchain 'fork' examples you allude to are really analogous. Most of them (e.g. Bitcoin gold) are third party forks created by opportunists. Ethereum Classic is very much a special case and also very different as it didn't involve the founder selling out to a competing chain/foundation, but instead actively supporting the non-Classic chain.
Anyway, after the live streem, the lastest is that the token swap is off for now and the existing Steem blockchain will continue as before. I would imagine most fork proposals will accordingly off the table, but who can say going forward. I expect many in the Steem community to remain skeptical of the new corporate overlords (which a blockchain doesn't really have), as well they should.
Not that much stuff gets funded. The SPS is just another way for Witnesses to feed themselves more. Yes the SPS could do a lot but if the exchanges do the swap it is unlikely that the SPS would be able to support getting listed on other exchanges for Old STEEM unless some key bag holders here really rallied the troops and they did it as a power play. Then they would have a heap of other issues like hosting.....etc. It is unlikely that Old STEEM would retain as much value as the Token on the TRON chain and one by one the STEEM Saviors would sneak out the back door and do the conversion in fear of losing more funds. It would likely make more sense for them to head for high ground and continue the circle jerk on TRON instead of risking ending up like Scorum, WEKU, BearShares, WhaleShares....etc
This is utter bullshit. Other than having a SP vote like anyone else, witnesses have no say over what gets funded on SPS. I have little doubt that competent Steem developers, if they wanted to work on Steem, would be funded.
As for the rest, we will have to see. Hosting isn't really an issue. @anyx has already said that his node infrastructure can probably handle the load and could also be expanded (it currently only costs $15/day via SPS).
I think there are a fair number of people involved with Steem who want nothing to do with Tron, but I could be wrong.
Exchanges will follow the user base. If there is a user base on the existing chain, they will support it. If the user base goes away (which was already happening to an extent, and this new development doesn't fix that at all), then they won't.
Well with POLO announcing they are bring back STEEM as the TRON token and with CZ and Justin being boyz Binance will likely do the conversion. Bittrex already has a lot of us locked out because suddenly it wanted our SSNs so we said screw it and abandoned it. Bittrex would likely do the swap if the other exchanges were and especially if Steemit INC (Controlled By Tron) helped facilitate the transition with some money and support.
I don't see how the amount of images being uploaded here would only cost $15/day for hosting.
The market had spoken. STEEM was slipping overtime. People have always seen this place as weird and unfair. This has gone on for 4 years and the only times when people have forgot about the issues is when there were irrational hockey stick parabolic moves and the money got relatively insane. Even when that happened most people couldn't really get out fast enough because of the power down cycle. You almost had to be liquid to really benefit.
About the SPS. Most of it is just dog piling up on each others proposals and a lot of it is getting paid for stuff they already were doing previously. Now is some of it important? Sure but for the most part others outside that close circle aren't going to get funded.
I got burned here for the most part and I'm glad that I focused more on stacking other coins. Even stuff I'm not really into like Ethereum and Bitcoin Cash.
Personally I'm really glad I stacked EOS hard and I'm getting the Proxy Voting Rewards and REX rewards. That was a lot safer bet than buying STEEM which was a lot more likely to lose value overtime and be circle jerked to hell. Yes EOS has had their issues but they are on Kraken and Coinbase so people get on and just buy stuff they don't understand that looks "cheap."
I heard @ned wrote a song for us and will play it tomorrow so we will have to tune in for that.
Personally I don't really think many people are going to care too much about the switch to TRON if there is more marketing, Improved UI/UX and they make more money blogging. It will only be that core group of Witnesses who will be cut off from the cash cow that has went on for 4 years.
Polo is owned by Tron. It's also a nearly-abandoned exchange that was once relevant, but has not had much importance in the industry for a long time. This means very little if anything.
That's not really the point. Obviously anything sensible that gives people money for work with little to no recourse if the work isn't done (other than cutting off future funding) is going to involve recipients with some sort of reputation. The whole platform would be a whole lot better off if we stopped giving large amounts of money to people who, at least as often as not, turn out to be scammers. It is not SPS that is dysfunctional here, it is the rest of the rewarding system.
To be specific, @howo is not even a witness and is funded to do testing of the SMT code (something the Steemit devs should have done, but only did minimally, if at all). @netuoso is funded to work on the desktop wallet and while he is a witness, he dropped out of the top 20 long ago and currently sits at #52, earning essentially nothing. (And, contrary to your claims, neither was doing this work previously.)
Any competent Steem devs who want to be funded by SPS would be in the same category. The test of SPS is not whether if funds randos, it is whether it funds reputable, competent people when there is work to be done and someone qualified to do it, and also that it does not fund milkers and scammers. So far the answer seems to be yes on both.
Anyway, we will see what happens. One thing we agree on is that Steem has not exactly taken the world by storm. There are ample opportunities for Tron, 'Steem Classic', or other solutions altogether to do better in the future.
I know that POLO is owned by Tron. That is why I'm saying that they will do the conversion and Binance would be another likely Exchange to do the conversion. HitBTC is a scam so I don't recommend it. It mainly leaves the Korean Exchanges. The point I'm trying to make is that if that is the direction things go and even if some well financed investors and a solid chunk of Witnesses want to continue the original chain it will be tough to get exchange support. I mean look at these projects like Telos. It is tough to get on Exchanges. There is a gate keeper and they want money. You know with AEON. It is tough to keep exchange support and enough liquidity.
Of course we don't want to fund scammers and people with no reputation here but tons of people jumped on the SPS right away and submitted proposals including myself. I'm not as technical as you but I'm not a slouch. But like everything here it is just a very small group of people who are going to to support each other and despite being on here since 2016 there was no modest support.
https://steemit.com/sps/@brianphobos/multi-player-2d-arcade-game-to-win-more-steem-steemgalaxy-com
Even if someone says that wasn't going to drive enough demand or wasn't complex enough...etc but it is a proof of concept that can be expanded on for a lot of arcade type games. But Nah.....
People just leave when there is no support. I mean Partiko couldn't even get support and their app is really solid. Share2Steem was cool but they couldn't get support so they peaced out.
About the desktop wallet. I think it is a good project but to be honest probably less than 1% of people are using that. I use Greymass and Sqrl but I never once used Vessel. Not that it wasn't a good project. I just didn't feel a need for it even when my account was worth $20,000+. Maybe that was lazy of me but we all go used to utilizing the browser interface and figured if there was an issue that we would notice something pretty quick and I never let a ton of liquid funds sit around.
Justin has money and is able to build the hype and in my opinion the premise that the trending page wasn't anything about engagement and completely based on stake weight left me scratching my head for 4 years. It wouldn't have been that hard to sit there and display posts that were stake weight based, amount of votes from accounts with at least 500 SP (to fight low powered bot voting), amount of votes by accounts with rep over 60, amount of comments by accounts with 55 rep or higher with 500 SP, .......etc Some combination that would be representative of stuff that was high engagement on trending. Not some bid bot orgy on trending. 4 years and it is like Steemit Inc never thought to change that ........ SAD
Most people weren't interested in investing into this system and I feel bad for people still waiting and talking about SMTs. They have been parroting the stuff for 3 years.
In the end I think some changes, marketing, and buzz will be good. That being said I don't have a big investment in this platform anymore because of the continued disappointments despite being the most well developed blockchain project.
It will be interesting what happens but almost always money talks and the majority of people will go along with the majority. I can see 'STEEM Classic' being like WhaleShares, Bearshares, or WEKU or something. Already people aren't really making anything significant spending time here. We can figure that the minority chain will likely be worth 10% of the majority chain or less. So if STEEM Classic ends up being $0.03 with little to no exchange support it will be like a handful of little mini whales trying to get over on each other and get out before they get burned like Golos.
We will see what happens over the next few weeks. It will be interesting for sure.
Funny you mention that. My experience is pretty much the opposite. We get new exchanges adding it all the time (not all listed on coinmarketcap) and the older exchanges want little other than reasonable support when needed, the wallet not using too many resources (Steem largely fails on this), etc.
I personally don't think it will be that hard for the existing Steem chain to keep sufficient exchange support (you don't need dozens of exchanges or millions/billion of dollars of fake volume unless you are trying to hype something) if people want to continue to use it.
I get it, you're a Tron fan and you're happy to see Steemit go that route. Fair enough. The way I see it, there are a good number of community members, stakeholders, app developers, and ecosystem participants who are not, at least not without more clarification about how it will work. Whether they are motivated to do anything about it, we will have to see.
I guess that explains some sour grapes then. Nothing personal but I've never heard of you and I never heard of your proposal. If you or 'tons of people' expected SPS to be like the posting rewards where any idiot can almost frictionlessly milk rewards without a broad consensus of a significant part of the stakeholding base, then you misunderstood what SPS was supposed to do. It was and is supposed to support major projects of direct relevance broadly to the platform and its owners (stakeholders). Paying Steem core developers would certainly fall within that, even if lots of obscure proposals from lots of unknown people would not.
I wouldn't say I'm a huge fan of Tron. I'm a bigger fan of Monero and Litecoin. Tron is like Ethereum to me. I hold a decent chunk because there is a lot of buzz about it and there are a lot of fan boys. I do have a larger stake in Tron than STEEM at this point because the writing was on the wall in my mind and I headed to higher ground.
As far as not knowing me or anything about the proposal I'm not upset or anything but in general people would have seen the proposal because the SPS was only out for like 4 or 5 days when I posted. I was one of the first and also had https://www.steemgalaxy.com/ which wasn't completely finished but showed people I had put in some level of work and also having the pictures of me as a mentor at the EOS Hackathons. People should have seen that I had some level of technical competency and that this might be something to explore.
At the end of the day whether there ends up being two versions of STEEM I hope everyone well and I will continue to promote crypto / blockchain tech through my professional baseball team which is going coast to coast this spring.
Thanks for the discussion. In case you didn't catch the livestream, the token swap is off for now. The Steem blockchain will continue as-is and integration/bridges will be worked on at some unspecified time in the future. Wish you the best with your baseball team.
"To be specific, @howo is not even a witness" I am behind the @steempress witness currently ranked 25 though
Oh okay, I wasn't aware!
I'm locked out of bittrex and polo, so not sure?? lol
I abandoned both of them.
In the above comment thread, we've been referring to Steemit Inc employees. Point taken, they can quit Steemit Inc/Tron and continue work on the legacy Steem chain, but until they do, they are still Steemit Inc employees under Tron's management, currently tasked with moving all of Steem's infrastructure and dApps (with Steemit.com confirmed) to Tron.
It was a hypothetical, in the event that the Steem blockchain and whatever Tron wants to do go forward in parallel. I have reason to believe that at least some of the Steem devs would rather work on the Steem code than work on Tron, if an economically-viable pathway exists to do that. Whether that will ever happen I have no idea.
Sure, it's prudent to consider all options. Not a hypothetical, as the announcement clearly states their plans for moving to Tron wholesale. It's obvious the announcement was rushed to gate crash Voice beta, so one can hope calmer minds prevail and they modify their plans to be more gradual and thoughtful.