SELF UPVOTING OF COMMENTS IS NO LONGER ALLOWED, what would be the consequences, what would be the benefits.
In the steemit system there seems to be an argument that is getting more and more intense. There are two clear sides to this. And each has a valid points. Let's look into this and see what it's all about. As it just keep going back and forth like this... I'd like to point out the pros, cons, and possible mentalities of both these sides and would love to get your thoughts on this matter.
Here are the teams:
Team PRO SELF UPVOTE
These are people who believe that it is a good and justified practice to dip into the rewards pool and upvote every single one of their own comments. They are often strong with the STEEM. And their votes are powerful.
And in the opposite corner:
Team ANTI SELF UPVOTE
This team believes that paying it forward and everybody giving back is what will make the steemit community sustainable and abundant for all. This large team are often the younger steemians by steemit age. And often work tirelessly for little return in the hope of being the blood and sweat that will evolve steemit into something magnificent and never seen before.
Now now now... Calm down you two and let's hear both sides out...
The PRO SELF UPVOTE representative approaches the steemit stage
Quiet!!!!! Sit down shut up and listen. Now most of the people on this team are the ones that are big and strong and have the most influence. Not all whales and dolphins side on this team and that is their choice... Some of our more outstanding members speak out will in the most perfect way. And you will listen.
It is not against the rules to help other members on this team. There is no rules against voting on every single one of our own comments. We are the ones here that makes things happen when we make any move. So YOU WILL RESPECT OUR AUTHORITAH...
If it was not for many of us on this team. There would be no steemit at all. We deserve it and have very little time to listen to this shit. As our favourite member said in the link above. WE WILL NOT LET ANY SELF RIGHTEOUS PRICKS tell us we cannot vote for our own posts. Now go and crawl back into where ever it is and do whatever it is that you do. Some of us are powering down. And more of us will do that if you lor keep annoying us. So shut up!!! or this place will fall into a heap if we all power down. Now one day you might be able to join us , and your steem power will be doubled every 181 days. Until then, know your place and stay out of the way.
I will not be taking any questions... talk to the hand...
The crowd is silent aside from a few murmurs and angry whispers, but nobody speaks up.
The ANTI SELF UPVOTE ambassador greets the crowd
Thank you for the opportunity today to stand up here today and represent the entire steemit community...
And a warm welcome to the new members of this great community...
And also thank you to the established members that has made this possible for all of us to be here today...
Since HF19 the rewards have been significantly better for our newer members and many have reaped huge benefits and increase the motivation to create some amazing content. However some believe that with larger and fewer voting bullets. Seemed to have changed the behaviour of the wielders of the bigger guns. It seems that many with the higher VP choose to take out fo the daily reward pool and give to themselves. Many of you who are new here may not know what we are talking about. But Master @rada does a good job explaining this here. That the quality of the posts from the ones we look up at and aspire to be will go down. And that the unequal distribution of resources will discourage growth of our community. People will turn away in huge numbers.
That would be a disaster my friends. And I am speaking to whales, dolphins, minnows, and the ones that need our support most.
Master @ethical-ai points out here that it is unfortunate there are big players that use this style of steeming to take up daily and overall resources and them power down adding a downward pressure to steem value during a time of such cut throat scenario against other cryptocurrencies. If the majority of steemians left and the price is crushed because of this practice. That would be a tragedy for all of us. Even the whales that did not ride this first destructive wave will be left for dead like the rest of us.
Master @ethical-ai points out further severities of this problem and offers some possible solutions here.
Masters of the steemit council... I stand before you and plead for sake of all steemians, not just for the underdogs... for everyone. If this is allowed to persist out platform will implode on itself. For the sake of our pioneers, our present bloggers, and for future generations. Please take away the ability to upvote on one's own comments. And also allow posts to climb back up to the top every time someone comments. That will generate thought provoking content. And this does not mean that whales lose out... They too are more than capable of generating the greatest content as they have done. They will still have the abundance they deserve. By going through the right channels they can do this while they contribute to everyone else.
We can all win together, or we can all fall together. Thank you for this opportunity to represent you all.
May the STEEM be with you.
YODA: Now that we have heard the debate from both teams. I invite you all to comment on each team's perspective and give me your objective. Your comments are the most important and they are the game changers before the next Hard Fork. That was a fair debate ;) And I invite you to make a fair comment.
Please please resteem this as comments are vital to gain more materials to work with to make changes for the better. Follow me @yoda1917 if you found value in this and we may cross paths more often :)
Look forward to hearing from you.
I have recommended multiple times to just discontinue self upvote, but some user pointed our then everyone will create two accounts, post from one account and upvote from theother one, so here i see one solution which is developers use their influence and downvote power or some banning mechanism, so we can get rid of this malpractice.
It may not be a complete solution but it is very much a must.
Can you do me a favour and resteem this for me as it has sunken into the darkness. Much appreciated.
I created this today.....
I think you will like it :)
I am about to resteem it and i assure you i am joining voice with you on this issue. One more point is this upvote scenario is, one will only upvote his/her own post, only for monetary benefits. Otherwise there is no reason as one's sharing or posting of something is the prove that he/she likes it.
Thank you.... did you check my other post. I think I am offending a lot of people. I am about to write another one
Keep writing and posting for the good of steemit community. Issues of steemit must be highlighted so they can be discussed and solved on community level. I have read your other post there you are some how agree about self voting, i still stuck at one point, posting of something by some user is assurance that he like that content then why he upvote other than monetary benefits?
Upvotes are important. But when people take time to comment and resteem it means even more to me.
Thanks :)
Ummmm. You seem to have missed the main problem. If you push self-votes away then people will just build smurf accounts and vote themselves that way. Others will argue that it's against freedom and liberty to do as they will with their own steem power.
Thank you for pointing that out Master :)
Any chance of a resteem from you so your mates get into this discussion? ;)
Hmmm. Then you'll see a whale with lots of pet minnows... is there a way around this
Yes, big accounts either delegate power to others to deal with such behavior through flagging, or they do it themselves, but short of that there is no solution. I think it's a very simple solution and it doesn't require any HF, just community initiative.
Correct, but where are the good whales to step up and put an end to this activity that will kill the whole steemit platform in the end.
Debatable. Right now there are only a few people that can be considered abusive, and there's plenty of discussion about among the veterans about this I think.
I know this has been repeated a lot, but we're in beta, and although the system has changed considerably in specific ways, overall, the platform has remained the same: police yourselves. come to consensus.
There may be only a few you consider abusive but as a very new person to steem I noticed right away the comment and upvote situation. Not just from whales, but others are doing it, learning from the big boys ya know. I have been here for less than 3 weeks and this has been a discussion in my household because my boyfriend and I (who joined the same day as me) thought this might be something we were supposed to be doing since it seemed to work. Since people were doing this to our account were we supposed to be doing that on others? I looked into it and found all this.
I am glad to know that the veterans are aware of this and discussing this
If everyone adapted their MO, this place would go to hell in a hand basket.
That's why I think a good solution would be to report all such activities of reward pool rape to a community or group who will have a post up every week that gets edited regularly to reflect who should be flagged and have their collusive behavior negated and send the rewards back to the community, and that's not against freedom or liberty, people have the right to do as they will with their own steem power, like flagging behavior that is counter to community.
What is the key to getting ideas like this implemented though
Time/effort and perseverance.
You are right, there is nothing else, and there is a hope that others with more power behind them will step in and assist.
I think all the "self voting lists" and the entire issues is completely over-shadowing all kinds of other work we should be doing on the Steemit platform.
To quote @smooth:
"Someone who buys SP and then selfvotes is not 'draining' anything and at best can get back a portion of what was put in. It causes no harm at all."
Investors are the ones who underwrite all of the rewards on this platform. If you are not an investor, or are only a smaller investor, you need to focus your efforts on creating inspiring content that makes investors want to give their money to you. Whatever else they do or don't do with their money (including self-voting) is not your concern and does not harm you in any way. Nevertheless, you do have a downvote that you can use to disagree with what you think are underserved rewards. I suggest using it."
"The idea of creating 'lists of shame' and demonizing people is divisive, creates a hostile and toxic environment attractive to no one, and serves no useful purpose. There is no way to tell from these lists whether the content is deserving of the rewards or not. The only way to tell is by actually looking at the content, and if you think it is undeserving, downvote it."
"Your own statistics show that self-voting is awarding about 8.5% of the reward pool. I don't find that suggestive of any problem whatsoever. It is probably a very reasonable number given that the current parameters give people 10 full power votes to make per day. Thus one is being applied to the voters' own content and nine to others' (on average, of course). Seems fine."
This is a very good post that try to address the issue of self voting in a more balanced way. I am of the opinion that everything needs to be balanced. Self voting is not good but you have to also look at some problems that fuel self voting.
Please elaborate on these problems that may fuel self voting...
And any chance of resteeming this for me bro. I really need more people to join in here :)
Use chainBB for this feature.
People should start to see Steemit also like an investment. A real financial investment. The more shares you have in a company the more you can earn back and have a more powerful voice in the company.
I'm on team self upvote. I gave my opinion about this 'issue' a few days ago.
https://steemit.com/steemit/@anonimnotoriu/my-5-cents-on-the-self-voting-issue
Yeah I know about ChainBB. But unless I am wrong 99% of people come here and not there. I am not sure why.
And thank you for your opinion, you are one of the nicest people that play on that team. Many of them are very abusive in their posts and comments :)
What are your thoughts on this issue
Hope to hear from you again, I value your opinion.
May I ask for a resteem to keep this dialogue alive? Much appreciated
I did notice that it seems like you support Team Anti-Self-vote, since you wrote a lot more from their perspective. I'm on that team. I consider myself the Ron Paul of the Witness Congress. A lot of people accuse anarchocapitalists (or perhaps @the-ego-is-you's label Cooperative Agorists )of being selfish egoists, but in fact, we are trying to take these central banksters out of the equation, no matter what form they mutate into.
My life's purpose in and outside of steemit is to search for ways to freedom from the prison without bars generated by the reserve banks. And then lead people out. So we are on the same page :)
Hey may I ask you to resteem this for me so more people get to see it. I would love for a whale to join this conversation. Thanks
It was remiss of me not to already do that, once I read back and remembered what this post was about. It deserves it, for sure.
Thank you :) that is much appreciated. Come and have a look at what else I got. I am sure I can at least provide you with some entertainment @yoda1917
I think you may like this one as well https://steemit.com/steemit/@yoda1917/steemians-with-a-humble-following-level-playing-field-to-members-with-a-huge-following
Why not use clear information instead of attempting to additionally control user behavior?
Just advertise abusive self-voters in a similar way as 100% SP posts ... perhaps with a badge on post titles and on the wallet page that only appears when a ridiculous percentage (maybe 75% or more) of the week's author rewards came from the author's own self-votes.
That would be a clear cut way that will enforce self regulation. I think that is a good idea. Good thinking, upvoted your comment.
Any chance I can you you to resteem this so more people may see it on its last days? That would be awesome :)
Thanks. Rather than resteem this post, I will mention/link to it during the next few days as a great example of the conversation now taking place around this issue.
Thank you, this is much appreciated.
Being new here and not much knowledge about its nuances, my first thought was hey this is cool that you get an upvote each time you post, which in theory is correct in my opinion, you liked it so you shared it with others..it helped me earn up a small amount of forward progress which was gratifying and offered more incentive to post more. ;) Like everything else it changes and now you have to start thinking about stuff..argh..thinking is such a pain. Probably the wrong way to think about how things work here but I will ride on my baby-like newb status in my own defense haha.
I guess it is what it is. I believe progress is progress but not everything that appears to be working needs to be changed. As with anything, no matter what you do someone will try to beat the system only for their own spoils. I just don't happen to be one of those people and will probably never change.
Comment upvoted and what an awesome comment. Yes change is inevitable, we go up or we go down. Doing nothing takes us down, effort is required by all to go up.
May I ask for a resteemto get this message out there before it dies. And come to @yoda1917 and help everyone and yourself by supporting the cause I am so passionate about.
Thank you again :)
Resteemed and thanks. I have a running joke with my parents on how many change nowadays " new and improved" which hardly are. I am probably still to new here to notice differences. I have noticed a slight lack of upvotes though, but I will keep trying. Good luck with the cause!
HF 19 and the self voting issue is what is getting a lot of new people down as you can see I am fighting it hard :)
Hey have you seen my new article today? It made a bit of impact :)
https://steemit.com/steemit/@yoda1917/and-the-steem-comes-tumbling-down-time-to-sit-tight
Ah, good stuff and resteemed. Guess I need to figure out bow to buy now. :) Tha ks for the interesting posts. Can't wait until I get one to go over a few cents...lol
Yeah I was very excited when I got one $190. And sometimes $40 or $20
I had to learn a few things before that happened
A good debate. I do not upvote all the time but do it occasionally.
Thank you you are a legend.
Come and see if my cause is worth supporting at @yoda1917
See you again :)
hi
Hi there, whats up
This is a non-issue if you understand how the voting system works. The amount of time that passes directly effects the power of your votes. So people with high power should not instantly upvote or they will lose much of their rewards. By waiting and using their steem power to keep their post rolling they will make much more and there is nothing wrong with using your own power to say that you yourself have written something great, its your reputation on the line and if you constantly upvote your own shit posts you will suffer in the end.
I think all the "self voting lists" and the entire issues is completely over-shadowing all kinds of other work we should be doing on the Steemit platform.
To quote @smooth:
"Someone who buys SP and then selfvotes is not 'draining' anything and at best can get back a portion of what was put in. It causes no harm at all."
Investors are the ones who underwrite all of the rewards on this platform. If you are not an investor, or are only a smaller investor, you need to focus your efforts on creating inspiring content that makes investors want to give their money to you. Whatever else they do or don't do with their money (including self-voting) is not your concern and does not harm you in any way. Nevertheless, you do have a downvote that you can use to disagree with what you think are underserved rewards. I suggest using it."
"The idea of creating 'lists of shame' and demonizing people is divisive, creates a hostile and toxic environment attractive to no one, and serves no useful purpose. There is no way to tell from these lists whether the content is deserving of the rewards or not. The only way to tell is by actually looking at the content, and if you think it is undeserving, downvote it."
"Your own statistics show that self-voting is awarding about 8.5% of the reward pool. I don't find that suggestive of any problem whatsoever. It is probably a very reasonable number given that the current parameters give people 10 full power votes to make per day. Thus one is being applied to the voters' own content and nine to others' (on average, of course). Seems fine."