less votes than normal: it is because more priority is given to higher steem power now. I don't mean to be rude but if you didn't cash out 90% to bittrex it might be better for the pool, so I would say this is not actually a problem in terms of how the system is operating. Trust me that I understand the tactics of moving SBD into BTC right now and buying steem later to multiply it, so if that is what you are doing then great, but an algorithm has no way to differentiate between intentions of behaviors from individual people and must be structured in a way that benefits the most people on average and in many cases where critical abuse scenarios are possible a system must assume the worst of people by default to protect the others involved, and if someone can drain the pool into bittrex using a bunch of tiny accounts and never power up we are in a very bad position for long term growth (I am not saying that is what you are doing, but that the system itself should assume that you are by way of factoring in SP and the rate of your SP increasing over time).
If anyone is able to collect a large chunk of the rewards but never increases their SP we are not accelerating properly. You have powered up about 16SP in all of available history outside of post amounts, but have sent ~115SBD to bittrex, and I don't judge you for that but from a system standpoint it can and should look like someone draining the pool because there is no way for the system to assess you as a person or determine if what you are doing is legitimate or not, it just has a bunch of numbers to work with unless things start to get really advanced. So just imagine if all the high-rank 15SP accounts wake up and replicate the pattern, they could farm our pool and send it to bittrex and we will all be voting into dumping the price of SBD at their profit for people that have their rank simply from old idle accounts that have no voting power to offer anything in return, and instead of increasing their 15SP they just cash out, so the system must learn to understand SP and the value it holds. Again, I don't mean it personally but it just so happens you are in a position that facilitates my expression of this serious concern and one of the primary reasons I push for SP-weight (among so many reasons, being one of the primary is significant) People attempting to drain the pool in one way or another will always be the frontmost issue we find ourselves dealing with, but from a system standpoint one of the best ways to prevent this kind of abuse is to place more value onto accounts having higher SP, because those are the kind of people most likely to keep powering up and are already offering the most in return.
I think something your issue highlights is the gradient decline of number of votes doesn't extend beyond the FVL voters range, but rather singular votes are concentrated and have some cutoff range, so you get a black and white difference between a small range of rank at that specific threshold going from 500 votes immediately down to 50, but those 50 do come from the highest SP holders so you are still getting quite a lot in return compared to most people in the pool, just looking at your caster page here your posts get about half of their total value from the shadow pool, somewhere in the range of 2.5 added to payout, and using this tool to calculate you are giving about 0.07 to the pool from a vote. One problem here is that posting frequency is not yet factored into the equation other than limitations for anti-spam, so the opposite is not part of the weight you are given and an infrequent posting time will not earn any extra to make up for time idle. I am not sure it should considering the dead accounts that have high rank just from their age, but assuming you posted once per day you would currently be in the range of gaining 350% what upvoting yourself would gain and that is assuming you allow shadowbot 100% voting, so at your current status it is actually something in the range of 700%, which is far beyond any other offering on steemit, so despite being less than the peak from a month ago it is still quite extreme, especially considering you still have the option to move up even more. At one point your return was much higher than this already extreme ratio, and the change to factoring in SP has reduced it, but at another point you had way less than you do now so from that perspective you are still way ahead. I think the next step is POWER UP! Everyone in the pool should be encouraged to power up really, no matter what rank they have. All it will take is a couple people from those old micro accounts to start draining the pool to show the current weighting of SP is actually very lenient and still in favor of smaller accounts and account age.
Anyway, as a game designer your kind of problem is the kind I prefer to solve even if I don't agree it actually is one. I contemplate the issue and it seems to mostly derive from the cliff of queue depths where non FVL voters never reach down beyond a certain range except when those higher rank than that range are inactive. This means you could be getting less votes simply from others jumping ahead of you in rank, or you could be getting less votes from inactive accounts waking up and posting, but in either case the number of votes decreases by a large margin as soon as you fall outside the range of non-FVL voting.
I think to resolve this problem shadowbot will need some gradient decline of the smaller votes so that people can notice their votes increasing over time rather than in big chunks when they hit a specific range. To do this there could be some kind of overflow mechanic where a post reaches a certain number of votes and then starts diverting some of them to the rank below, and the overflow amount could be based on rank as well. Supposing the threshold is a static amount it would automatically scale alongside the total size of the pool. Ex: 1000vote overflow threshold would behave differently now than it would once there are 2000 voters. This might be tricky to avoid problems and open the door to some abuse, but mitigated by priority being isolated away from rank according to SP. I am sure there are other solutions, but that is my random idea for it.
I'm new here so excuse me if I got something wrong but I think of Shadowbot as an enhancement from what i have read. The better you do the more you earn and it takes time to build a base of people who like what you do. If you do poorly you will have few followers if you do content that everyone wants to read you will do well. As for pulling out your sbd when you don't have but a few 100 is a bad idea you should be putting that into upvote bots or turn it into steem power but to draw it out and then come here and complain...yea they will tell you not to pull out your sbd and to invest into your self. If you don't see your self good enough to invest into why would anyone else.
" i strongly believe BTC growth will be more than steem this year, so converting to BTC at the right time" Holding SBD and using it to powerup your account is two different things. Powering up from 50/50 to 100% builds your account and it's not going to happen over night, you will have to work at it and become good. Then you make post about how Shadowbot doesn't work for you..... people explain this and you still complain. To be honest I'm shocked they didn't kick you out of the pool already.
Shadow Rank boosts are calculated once per week, but that does not mean every caster each week receives a boost. Shadow Rank is used as a balance based on your performance outside ShadowBot relative to how much ShadowBot provides to you. As we scale in users, the ability to earn Shadow Rank will continue to get harder since we are shifting to a priority on re-investing in your Steem Power for growing pool priority. Those who build up and earn and then re-invest their earnings into Steem Power will see the biggest benefit in the coming months from ShadowBot.
If you stick with the program your rank will continue to increase over time, we are shifting to display the full fractions of boosts (under 1) but currently this is not supported by our display system. You may see 22 or 33 or 11 but it actually could be 22.2 or 33.1 or 11.5, does that make sense? I know it is a little confusing that is why we are updating everything this week to support and display the full Shadow Rank you have.
I don't think you or @vishal09 will see any increase in voting amounts till the FVL and other thresholds are moved to make people over the FVL get more benefits from the pool. This is especially true for Vishal since you are way under the FVL. Minnow days and the recently announce dolphin days (shadowbot called this by a different name) should help people on the bottom and in the middle of steem power of the pool get more benefits from shadowbot to sorta balance out your shadowbot rewards. As more and more people come into shadowbot the voting power and how much it needs to spread to users and when will contstantly change. Also as changes to the thresholds and changes to the implementation of dolphin and minnow days happen changes to your typical earnings will result. Also voting power was recently added as a factor to your earnings. And this will obviously cause some changes to your earnings as well. So I wouldn't necessarily hold your breath to see a correction, because there very well may be nothing to correct till a massive change to the whole pool is done like moving the threshold amounts. Sure @shadowbot will look into it regardless, just felt like sharing that a decrease in your average earnings is normal and seen throughout the pool not just your accounts. And is a result of the half dozen or so things mentioned prior in this comment. Also that shadowbot has ways to remedy it for the whole pool using the thresholds, shadowbot doesn't change those on a day to day basis though it'd be ridiculously hard to track for problems and efficacy if they were.
Though a thoroughly complicated message with all the intriguing "System Logic Complexities" that have been mentioned...I intend to state and share in "SIMPLE Language" as to, The System has to be "FAIR to ALL & FAIR for ALL", but not excluding "Me"!!!
BTW, many a thanks for the efforts put across to write the above! Really Appreciate!
@paced.financial Voting power was always been the factor, from the start and im aware of the recent changes made and im not asking to increase the votes or anything.
I know shadow reads and responds so thats the only reason i have commented about it because i used to get votes even after the new implementation but now its very less. Feedbacks are necessary to make the system work efficiently
less votes than normal: it is because more priority is given to higher steem power now. I don't mean to be rude but if you didn't cash out 90% to bittrex it might be better for the pool, so I would say this is not actually a problem in terms of how the system is operating. Trust me that I understand the tactics of moving SBD into BTC right now and buying steem later to multiply it, so if that is what you are doing then great, but an algorithm has no way to differentiate between intentions of behaviors from individual people and must be structured in a way that benefits the most people on average and in many cases where critical abuse scenarios are possible a system must assume the worst of people by default to protect the others involved, and if someone can drain the pool into bittrex using a bunch of tiny accounts and never power up we are in a very bad position for long term growth (I am not saying that is what you are doing, but that the system itself should assume that you are by way of factoring in SP and the rate of your SP increasing over time).
If anyone is able to collect a large chunk of the rewards but never increases their SP we are not accelerating properly. You have powered up about 16SP in all of available history outside of post amounts, but have sent ~115SBD to bittrex, and I don't judge you for that but from a system standpoint it can and should look like someone draining the pool because there is no way for the system to assess you as a person or determine if what you are doing is legitimate or not, it just has a bunch of numbers to work with unless things start to get really advanced. So just imagine if all the high-rank 15SP accounts wake up and replicate the pattern, they could farm our pool and send it to bittrex and we will all be voting into dumping the price of SBD at their profit for people that have their rank simply from old idle accounts that have no voting power to offer anything in return, and instead of increasing their 15SP they just cash out, so the system must learn to understand SP and the value it holds. Again, I don't mean it personally but it just so happens you are in a position that facilitates my expression of this serious concern and one of the primary reasons I push for SP-weight (among so many reasons, being one of the primary is significant) People attempting to drain the pool in one way or another will always be the frontmost issue we find ourselves dealing with, but from a system standpoint one of the best ways to prevent this kind of abuse is to place more value onto accounts having higher SP, because those are the kind of people most likely to keep powering up and are already offering the most in return.
I think something your issue highlights is the gradient decline of number of votes doesn't extend beyond the FVL voters range, but rather singular votes are concentrated and have some cutoff range, so you get a black and white difference between a small range of rank at that specific threshold going from 500 votes immediately down to 50, but those 50 do come from the highest SP holders so you are still getting quite a lot in return compared to most people in the pool, just looking at your caster page here your posts get about half of their total value from the shadow pool, somewhere in the range of 2.5 added to payout, and using this tool to calculate you are giving about 0.07 to the pool from a vote. One problem here is that posting frequency is not yet factored into the equation other than limitations for anti-spam, so the opposite is not part of the weight you are given and an infrequent posting time will not earn any extra to make up for time idle. I am not sure it should considering the dead accounts that have high rank just from their age, but assuming you posted once per day you would currently be in the range of gaining 350% what upvoting yourself would gain and that is assuming you allow shadowbot 100% voting, so at your current status it is actually something in the range of 700%, which is far beyond any other offering on steemit, so despite being less than the peak from a month ago it is still quite extreme, especially considering you still have the option to move up even more. At one point your return was much higher than this already extreme ratio, and the change to factoring in SP has reduced it, but at another point you had way less than you do now so from that perspective you are still way ahead. I think the next step is POWER UP! Everyone in the pool should be encouraged to power up really, no matter what rank they have. All it will take is a couple people from those old micro accounts to start draining the pool to show the current weighting of SP is actually very lenient and still in favor of smaller accounts and account age.
Anyway, as a game designer your kind of problem is the kind I prefer to solve even if I don't agree it actually is one. I contemplate the issue and it seems to mostly derive from the cliff of queue depths where non FVL voters never reach down beyond a certain range except when those higher rank than that range are inactive. This means you could be getting less votes simply from others jumping ahead of you in rank, or you could be getting less votes from inactive accounts waking up and posting, but in either case the number of votes decreases by a large margin as soon as you fall outside the range of non-FVL voting.
I think to resolve this problem shadowbot will need some gradient decline of the smaller votes so that people can notice their votes increasing over time rather than in big chunks when they hit a specific range. To do this there could be some kind of overflow mechanic where a post reaches a certain number of votes and then starts diverting some of them to the rank below, and the overflow amount could be based on rank as well. Supposing the threshold is a static amount it would automatically scale alongside the total size of the pool. Ex: 1000vote overflow threshold would behave differently now than it would once there are 2000 voters. This might be tricky to avoid problems and open the door to some abuse, but mitigated by priority being isolated away from rank according to SP. I am sure there are other solutions, but that is my random idea for it.
.
I'm new here so excuse me if I got something wrong but I think of Shadowbot as an enhancement from what i have read. The better you do the more you earn and it takes time to build a base of people who like what you do. If you do poorly you will have few followers if you do content that everyone wants to read you will do well. As for pulling out your sbd when you don't have but a few 100 is a bad idea you should be putting that into upvote bots or turn it into steem power but to draw it out and then come here and complain...yea they will tell you not to pull out your sbd and to invest into your self. If you don't see your self good enough to invest into why would anyone else.
" i strongly believe BTC growth will be more than steem this year, so converting to BTC at the right time" Holding SBD and using it to powerup your account is two different things. Powering up from 50/50 to 100% builds your account and it's not going to happen over night, you will have to work at it and become good. Then you make post about how Shadowbot doesn't work for you..... people explain this and you still complain. To be honest I'm shocked they didn't kick you out of the pool already.
.
Shadow Rank boosts are calculated once per week, but that does not mean every caster each week receives a boost. Shadow Rank is used as a balance based on your performance outside ShadowBot relative to how much ShadowBot provides to you. As we scale in users, the ability to earn Shadow Rank will continue to get harder since we are shifting to a priority on re-investing in your Steem Power for growing pool priority. Those who build up and earn and then re-invest their earnings into Steem Power will see the biggest benefit in the coming months from ShadowBot.
If you stick with the program your rank will continue to increase over time, we are shifting to display the full fractions of boosts (under 1) but currently this is not supported by our display system. You may see 22 or 33 or 11 but it actually could be 22.2 or 33.1 or 11.5, does that make sense? I know it is a little confusing that is why we are updating everything this week to support and display the full Shadow Rank you have.
Ohhh !!! So, you are also facing the similar shadow rank re-calculation issue!!!
I too, expect a speedy solution !
I don't think you or @vishal09 will see any increase in voting amounts till the FVL and other thresholds are moved to make people over the FVL get more benefits from the pool. This is especially true for Vishal since you are way under the FVL. Minnow days and the recently announce dolphin days (shadowbot called this by a different name) should help people on the bottom and in the middle of steem power of the pool get more benefits from shadowbot to sorta balance out your shadowbot rewards. As more and more people come into shadowbot the voting power and how much it needs to spread to users and when will contstantly change. Also as changes to the thresholds and changes to the implementation of dolphin and minnow days happen changes to your typical earnings will result. Also voting power was recently added as a factor to your earnings. And this will obviously cause some changes to your earnings as well. So I wouldn't necessarily hold your breath to see a correction, because there very well may be nothing to correct till a massive change to the whole pool is done like moving the threshold amounts. Sure @shadowbot will look into it regardless, just felt like sharing that a decrease in your average earnings is normal and seen throughout the pool not just your accounts. And is a result of the half dozen or so things mentioned prior in this comment. Also that shadowbot has ways to remedy it for the whole pool using the thresholds, shadowbot doesn't change those on a day to day basis though it'd be ridiculously hard to track for problems and efficacy if they were.
Though a thoroughly complicated message with all the intriguing "System Logic Complexities" that have been mentioned...I intend to state and share in "SIMPLE Language" as to, The System has to be "FAIR to ALL & FAIR for ALL", but not excluding "Me"!!!
BTW, many a thanks for the efforts put across to write the above! Really Appreciate!
@paced.financial Voting power was always been the factor, from the start and im aware of the recent changes made and im not asking to increase the votes or anything.
I know shadow reads and responds so thats the only reason i have commented about it because i used to get votes even after the new implementation but now its very less. Feedbacks are necessary to make the system work efficiently
You're so nice for commenting on this post. For that, I gave you a vote! I just ask for a Follow in return!