I see that you don't care about the current situation...
My feeling is that both @thehive and myself care passionately. We are not looking for symbolic reactions but true solutions of this dilemma.
@thehive seems to be suggesting that nothing has changed in the governance of STEEM to stop another Justin Sun from performing a hostile take over. HF22.2 did nothing but piss off a billionaire. We are no safer from a hostile majority stake take over than we were before @ned sold us down river.
Ask yourself why Witness Voter Retention has not been changed in 4 years? Why has STINC's Ninja Mined Stake not been dealt with in 4 years?
Have the top 20 witnesses (minus @timcliff) been too busy protecting us or protecting their own interests? Luckily, for the vast majority of Steemians, many times those interests intersect. On some very important issues they do not.
That may be true, but dividing the community on the issue now, as we are under attack is NOT GOING TO HELP!
We will rethink the governance once we have regained control of the blockchain back. It would mean a suicide to start making these demands right now. Bloody amazing dumbfuckery to think we are going to get anywhere if we were to stop voting for the witnesses now and let Justin just take over.
The blockchain is doomed if we start infighting and give up our defenses.
Don't you think that is a problem for the next day, for the period when Justin has been defeated, instead of bickering about it now?
They may not have been changed in the last 4 years, but I guess this has been a wakeup call to everyone. It still doesn't mean infighting is going to help now that the takeover is already underway.
I mean how on earth do you think making these demands right now is going to save Steem at any stretch if you are only creating a rift in the community now at the face of adversity?
read up through your comments to me, You do not think you are a part of causing divide when you dictate what I should and should not do, when you tell me what I should and should not think, When your mind form opinions of what my mind thinks when you do not understand what I am saying.
What did I tell you you should do, show me when I told anyone what to do.
I shared opinion. My opinion does not agree with the way witness perform in their assumed position of negotiation without qualification to do so.
I have told you in a previous comment, I have no interest in Justin Sun at all. You have dome nothing more then follow me to promote your own ego and your own ambition to bring disruption. You have shown no effort in anyway to understand an opinion that differs to yours.
What did I tell you you should do, show me when I told anyone what to do.
I shared opinion. My opinion does not agree with the way witness perform in their assumed position of negotiation without qualification to do so.
What in earth would you have had them do? Give the blockchain to Justin?
You are stupid, you know.
I have told you in a previous comment, I have no interest in Justin Sun at all.
Still you are of the position, that something should have been done differently. You know, it would have not helped. He would have done the same. You don't care, but a whole lot of the rest of us don't want the blockchain to fall in his greedy hands.
You have shown no effort in anyway to understand an opinion that differs to yours.
We don't have the luxury to fight about this. What is done, is done, and Justin is still at it. If you have ANY means to win this fight, you should probably come up with them now, because otherwise this chat is over.
The thing is, @gamer00 that nothing has changed. HF22.5 undid HF22.2. Mr. Sun is now coaxing card board cut outs instead of sock puppets with such appeasers as @triple.aaa. You cannot defeat a billionaire in a stake based game if they are willing to go all in.
A hard chain fork is the logical direction. It gives us another kick at the can and the options to @null|Mr. Sun .
You are saying you won't be helping the community, and are willing to sell the blockchain to Justin, unless the witnesses do what you want. You are the one with the demands. You are the problem.
No I did not say that, Your lack of willingness to accept someone else will not follow like a sheep what others say has brought that to your mind. nothing that I have said.
You nor no one else dictates what I say. You are the one has a problem with me, Notice Your problem not mine.
Even just last night, I was on voice with Aggroed in his show. He does not hold my opinion against me but actually welcomes some opinion that does not just follow him blindly, it is your opinion and ambition to cause a fight that divides the community.
You are saying you won't be helping the community, and are willing to sell the blockchain to Justin, unless the witnesses do what you want. You are the one with the demands. You are the problem.
In my opinion the blockchain is a database and the community are people. Mr. Sun did not purchase the community.
What mister @thehive originally said in this thread was something along the lines of "we must appease mr. Sun". I challenged him because that's not something Justin Sun will ever even listen to.
@Thehive did not mention forking as an option. Not once. All he did was be vague about his point.
I understand forking may be the only choice in the long run. But if it is possible to fight Justin, we should still do that.
Although. I did have an interesting conversation with another steemian about the takeover, and he basically said: "Justin is too intelligent. He must have thought this through before he took over. He will get his way sooner or later."
What I now fear is, Justin has a clear game plan. He doesn't really appear to be after the community. Maybe what he really wants is the blockchain, the technology behind Steem, along with our content, to repopulate with his Tronglodytes. And maybe migrate some Steemians that are "fed up" with the original Steem, or how it was governed. (Maybe he even convinced most of the Korean community and others.)
Imagine which one will win. A "blogchain" with a few resurgents from the old Steem, or the one with some ex-steemians AND his already existing Tron community. Add DLive, SMT's and atomic swaps to the pot, and you will have a Steem killer. That's what I think Justin is after, the technology itself. If he will also get the name "Steem", all the better for him.
Do you really still think we have a chance if he wins?
It is slim chance if any...
The only game plan for us is to be quick, to at least get the name "Steem" to stay with us, and for the love of all that's good, finish the SMT's, and get rid of the vulnerabilities in governing and guarding the blockchain. We should also seek allies from other blockchains to maybe start the development for the atomic swaps between some of them.
To win, we need to think ahead, further than where Justins goals lie.
Ok, fuck it. I see that you don't care about the current situation, or anything. You just want to destroy the whole blockchain.
"Bigger than pyramids", you are delusional.
Your demands mean nothing if Justin wins.
My feeling is that both @thehive and myself care passionately. We are not looking for symbolic reactions but true solutions of this dilemma.
@thehive seems to be suggesting that nothing has changed in the governance of STEEM to stop another Justin Sun from performing a hostile take over. HF22.2 did nothing but piss off a billionaire. We are no safer from a hostile majority stake take over than we were before @ned sold us down river.
Ask yourself why Witness Voter Retention has not been changed in 4 years? Why has STINC's Ninja Mined Stake not been dealt with in 4 years?
Have the top 20 witnesses (minus @timcliff) been too busy protecting us or protecting their own interests? Luckily, for the vast majority of Steemians, many times those interests intersect. On some very important issues they do not.
I was more saying this exact situation was brought to the attention of those in governance position a long time ago. They done nothing about it.
With that a concentration of time has been spent on HF rather than discussing possibly ways to move forward.
Thanks for clarifying. 😎👍
That may be true, but dividing the community on the issue now, as we are under attack is NOT GOING TO HELP!
We will rethink the governance once we have regained control of the blockchain back. It would mean a suicide to start making these demands right now. Bloody amazing dumbfuckery to think we are going to get anywhere if we were to stop voting for the witnesses now and let Justin just take over.
The blockchain is doomed if we start infighting and give up our defenses.
If Mr. Sun does not back this down a hard chain fork seems inevitable and the normal solution in such blockchain stand offs.
Don't you think that is a problem for the next day, for the period when Justin has been defeated, instead of bickering about it now?
They may not have been changed in the last 4 years, but I guess this has been a wakeup call to everyone. It still doesn't mean infighting is going to help now that the takeover is already underway.
I mean how on earth do you think making these demands right now is going to save Steem at any stretch if you are only creating a rift in the community now at the face of adversity?
read up through your comments to me, You do not think you are a part of causing divide when you dictate what I should and should not do, when you tell me what I should and should not think, When your mind form opinions of what my mind thinks when you do not understand what I am saying.
You are the one dictating, you are the one trying to let Justin take over. How much is he paying you?
What did I tell you you should do, show me when I told anyone what to do.
I shared opinion. My opinion does not agree with the way witness perform in their assumed position of negotiation without qualification to do so.
I have told you in a previous comment, I have no interest in Justin Sun at all. You have dome nothing more then follow me to promote your own ego and your own ambition to bring disruption. You have shown no effort in anyway to understand an opinion that differs to yours.
What in earth would you have had them do? Give the blockchain to Justin?
You are stupid, you know.
Still you are of the position, that something should have been done differently. You know, it would have not helped. He would have done the same. You don't care, but a whole lot of the rest of us don't want the blockchain to fall in his greedy hands.
We don't have the luxury to fight about this. What is done, is done, and Justin is still at it. If you have ANY means to win this fight, you should probably come up with them now, because otherwise this chat is over.
You are the only one fighting, I have blocked you
The thing is, @gamer00 that nothing has changed. HF22.5 undid HF22.2. Mr. Sun is now coaxing card board cut outs instead of sock puppets with such appeasers as @triple.aaa. You cannot defeat a billionaire in a stake based game if they are willing to go all in.
A hard chain fork is the logical direction. It gives us another kick at the can and the options to @null|Mr. Sun .
You are saying you won't be helping the community, and are willing to sell the blockchain to Justin, unless the witnesses do what you want. You are the one with the demands. You are the problem.
No I did not say that, Your lack of willingness to accept someone else will not follow like a sheep what others say has brought that to your mind. nothing that I have said.
You nor no one else dictates what I say. You are the one has a problem with me, Notice Your problem not mine.
Even just last night, I was on voice with Aggroed in his show. He does not hold my opinion against me but actually welcomes some opinion that does not just follow him blindly, it is your opinion and ambition to cause a fight that divides the community.
Oh, so you have more power than me... Good for you.
In my opinion the blockchain is a database and the community are people. Mr. Sun did not purchase the community.
What mister @thehive originally said in this thread was something along the lines of "we must appease mr. Sun". I challenged him because that's not something Justin Sun will ever even listen to.
@Thehive did not mention forking as an option. Not once. All he did was be vague about his point.
I understand forking may be the only choice in the long run. But if it is possible to fight Justin, we should still do that.
Although. I did have an interesting conversation with another steemian about the takeover, and he basically said: "Justin is too intelligent. He must have thought this through before he took over. He will get his way sooner or later."
What I now fear is, Justin has a clear game plan. He doesn't really appear to be after the community. Maybe what he really wants is the blockchain, the technology behind Steem, along with our content, to repopulate with his Tronglodytes. And maybe migrate some Steemians that are "fed up" with the original Steem, or how it was governed. (Maybe he even convinced most of the Korean community and others.)
Imagine which one will win. A "blogchain" with a few resurgents from the old Steem, or the one with some ex-steemians AND his already existing Tron community. Add DLive, SMT's and atomic swaps to the pot, and you will have a Steem killer. That's what I think Justin is after, the technology itself. If he will also get the name "Steem", all the better for him.
Do you really still think we have a chance if he wins?
It is slim chance if any...
The only game plan for us is to be quick, to at least get the name "Steem" to stay with us, and for the love of all that's good, finish the SMT's, and get rid of the vulnerabilities in governing and guarding the blockchain. We should also seek allies from other blockchains to maybe start the development for the atomic swaps between some of them.
To win, we need to think ahead, further than where Justins goals lie.