RE: 5 Different Types of Steemit Users And Different Visions About The Future of Steemit
Regarding the 'rewarding low quality' posts:
First I'll say that overall I am on the same page with you here. A post that has been carefully crafted with a lot of time and effort deserves to be better rewarded than a post that is difficult to read, seemingly lacking a point or is merely a sentence with a link/video. BUT, saying that these deserve nothing (which I don't necessarily think you meant, but was just termed that way) can be quite problematic in my opinion. Having these 'lesser' posts acquire some rewards can be a huge boost to get people to put forth that growth/progress/effort we are looking for, much like you did.
Back when we started, the payouts for introduction posts was through the roof, which at least for me provided that first little boost to want to make my writing, blogging, formatting, etc better. That's really not the case anymore both because of the steem price and because it fell out of vogue to highly reward first/intro posts (for very good reasons imo.) But we have to offset this in some way, so having lesser quality and/or short form posts receive some, albeit smaller rewards, I still find important to help hook, retain and motivate new users to stay and integrate with the Steemit community.
While the investment that many have put in have been an integral piece to building this place (and keeping it sustained for a while,) in the end the community is the product and draw. We connect with these community members through both their posts themselves AND through the social interaction outside of the blog (like the chatrooms, discord channels, etc.)
Personally I want to see those who are seen to be putting forth effort to improve (like both you and me) to at least get a little something to keep them going doing what they are doing. It's tough to not get completely demotivated, leave, and go back to their old social media platform where it "didn't feel like work." A dollar or two payout goes a looooong way in this ramp up process.
There are no "good" or "bad" posts or even "original" or "copied" posts around here. Some people get paid for whatever crap they post, and is a form of nepotism I detest in the world today and was hoping we would create a platform where connections do not matter, and we are judged solely on the quality of our opinions, while respecting all types.
Eh, I can follow to a point. Subjectively there very much are good vs bad posts, we each have our own method of judgement on this.
It's easy to fall into the 'monoculture' trap of always searching to stuff to vote the same way (for those that do still manually vote) and I can't really give too much fault there. Sometimes it's purely a pattern we fell into.
Now this changes a bit when it comes to the whales since that's what really effects the payouts of things. So many of them have joined or allocated voting power to curation guilds. Many of these do a great job at spreading things around WAY better than used to be done.
Marketing (getting your content seen) and networking (building your name recognition) are things rarely mentioned outside of the pure content. The same thing goes on in book sales, blogging, etc. anywhere...there is just too much stuff to catch it all, and people find authors that they like. True it's a little different here since it's voting, but the underlying human nature still applies (imo.)
I really don't thing anyone here truly expects that EVERYTHING that someone votes on in read in full, in particular the longer written or video posts. (Art, photography, etc. can be digested in a much shorter period of time.) It's a double edged sword we just have to deal with on some level. There's some stuff that is actually digested and voted up because it was liked (regardless of others good vs bad judgement) and then there is the rest that goes to pure curation (regardless of quality, but focusing on 'popularity) for the SP rewards.
In the end it's a mix of judging/voting good content (or for whatever reason the vote was cast...sometimes I vote things because I've seen effort and/or progress) and the vote for SP rewards. It's just the game, everything in life to some respect is a similar game.
While I know it's not always liked...my personal take is get better both at my personal skills AND get better at the game.
I think that everyone should at least spend 10 seconds to look at the post they are going to curate so they don't upvote randomly. No need to read whole article but just have general view if it is not some awfully edited copypasta or "1 sentence 1 YT video link post".
If, after that, we still get bamboozled into upvoting some content that appears duebious (plagiarism etc), then we should be willing to remove the vote or flag when steemcleaners point it out.
"Art, photography, etc. can be digested in a much shorter period of time.) "
I agree that it is easy to digest but also this is often high quality content because people invest a lot of their effort to create it good quality art. The amount of effort put to create art can be easily judged. That includes photography - you have to spend a lot of time and trials to take good shot of something.
I absolutely agree that spending at least a little time actually inside the post is the ideal...or at least somebody in the sense of a curator with autovote followers. In some sense that proposed change to reduce the amount of 100% votes (from 40 to 5) could help with with, since we wouldn't feel pressured to 'use all our votes.' We've all only got so many hours in the day to post, chat, comment, promote, etc. on top of actually digesting/voting on posts...oh and life itself outside of steemit. Personally this is somewhat how I took it when @dantheman said the 40-5 vote per day allowance (vs the vote power % regen rate) was needed a better understanding from the userbase. (I could be wrong on this, just my take.) But as it stands, I suspect that even the best of us have a hard time fully digesting long form written posts. This specifically is why I commonly taught newer people on how to make their content easy to scan via headings, bolded words/phrases, etc. so that after the second paragraph or so, when most people just start scrolling down, can still follow and grasp the main points being made. Time constraints and attention scarcity can somewhat (even if imperfect) battled in this way.
On the found plagiarism posts I'm totally on the same page there. I can say that I do this myself (remove upvotes, sometimes flag) when this is the case and I see it. The hard part there is that we don't always go back to a post after the fact to even see the steemcleaner comment. I will say it irks me a bit when I have seen things be upvoted even after the comment was made and it would be nice for the userbase in general to be on the look out for that.
I should say that I have absolutely no issue with art, photography, etc. is easier/quicker to digest. I do not mean that they hold any less value than written posts, just merely referring to the required 'curation' time for these. We just rarely hear complaints about these visually transmitted posts being rewarded while 'poor quality.' Usually the complaints seem to be around the non-visual, written ones...the only reason I made that distinction.
Hey there, do you think since you are kinda techy, you could comment with your ideas here??? Thanks for everything... BD
https://steemit.com/steemit/@barrydutton/steemit-needs-please-comment-with-your-ideas-to-improve-steemit-e-1
I just said this above to @thecryptofiend
" I was in threads recently with @donkeypong etc -- and agreed that short form posts have a place and can be great posts. Not everyone can spend time on a long post -- either writing or reading it. They have a purpose for sure. You will see my odd post up stating Short Form Post right in the title so people know it is short. Not meaning it is crappy lol
Clinical issues or time constraints both play a role in people not having the ability to read long posts, even though some are just beauties. You know what I am saying "
Absolutely! :) I'm very much on the same page. Sure there will be things for us to tweak and learn on curating short posts, but def see it as a good addition for Steemit to bring onboard! :)
I remember not too long ago when games weren't being allowed by the community (like steemsports, guess how many challenges, etc...) because they were viewed as vote buying. Not only have they become some of the more popular posts that are out there, they also provide a way to spread steem/SP around to users. A great learning curve for the community with that I see as a great benefit in the end. :)
I thought this was a good post to come back to -- to drop this post into for you to check out regarding this Steemit Community Milestone --
--- https://steemit.com/steemit/@barrydutton/10-000-posts-by-mindhunter-today-steemit-milestone-community-report#@mindhunter/re-barrydutton-re-mindhunter-re-barrydutton-10-000-posts-by-mindhunter-today-steemit-milestone-community-report-20161123t175520803z
Yes, I agree with you. Maybe we could create win-win situation. Like I mentioned in comment above:
"Maybe we could all agree on reward limit for such posts as 2SBD max per post (4SBD per day), so they will still earn something despite it taking them 30 seconds to create it :-)"
About highly paid introdution posts. This was many times exploited. Sometimes just by scammers stealing someone's identity. On other occasions just by pure leeches who only joined to milk bucks and never came back.
Do you remember tha Mexican playmate who made 200 word post, collected 15k altogether and never came back?
https://steemit.com/introduceyourself/@brendazambrano/hi-i-am-the-first-playmate-with-more-than-a-million-followers-to-blog-on-steemit
Rewarding introduction posts in good curation is a way to go but maybe we could agree on that the person needs to verify their identity first (checked by some delegated users so they can stay anonymous if need to)?
I agree there's a win-win somewhere available. The tougher part here is that anything we would come up with would at best be used by the curation guilds, versus individual whales/users. (Which personally I'm ok with.) I think many of the guild might be ok with something like this, like the shooting for 2ish dollar rewards for the 'lesser posts.' I don't think we could really ever have a full say for the individual (high SP) voters, since really that's theirs to do what they want with.
I do agree on the old highly paid intro posts...many many many issues that came from that. While I don't want to really have things go back that way, it is important to have some way to hook the 'good' users while minimizing the risk of being 'burned/scammed' or just not helped by the not so good users. (i.e. 1 huge payout post which was then just cashed out.)
In the end though, I do feel there is a middle ground many here could be comfortable with. We just can't be too worried though when a whale (not a part of a curation group/guild/allocated SP) bumps something we may not find high quality. It's bound to happen.
And in the end, quality is always somewhat subjective. If that one sentence and a pic made me smile, laugh, or invoke some powerful emotion, it becomes harder to judge. There will always be some gray area.
Well, one picture can make us smile but it is low quality content if it wasn't drawn by the author :-) I think that by now "the creators" have moreless of an idea what the good quality content is. It is defined by the amount of one's personal original input/work.
I agree that we cannot prevent some whales from curating such content. That's why the site owners could help with it by clearly stating what is welcome and what is not. Like they did with "featured author" content.
Yes I'm just saying that it's a compromise on length. It doesn't have to be long but I still expect a quality post. If it's just a link I don't really find that appealing - I think your idea of giving a low reward to that makes sense - maybe we could all agree to only vote say 10-20% on those posts as community convention.
I was in threads recently with @donkeypong etc -- and agreed that short form posts have a place and can be great posts. Not everyone can spend time on a long post -- either writing or reading it. They have a purpose for sure. You will see my odd post up stating Short Form Post right in the title so people know it is short. Not meaning it is crappy lol
Clinical issues or time constraints both play a role in people not having the ability to read long posts, even though some are just beauties. You know what I am saying brother!
I think it is the personal input that makes the difference. Even if you don't have much to say it doesn't take a huge amount of work to say a few words and personalise things. If you read a good article in a magazine that you want to share I enjoy the post more if there is something personal about it i.e. what you think and feel about the situation.
If you just post a link and a title then I don't see any value in that - how do we even know you read it. I've noticed a lot of people just fire out multiple posts per day which take no time and they sometimes get more attention than real genuine posts made by newcomers. They see that and then they either copy it or they get disheartened and give up. Either way we lose.
I think with the TIL thing we have as a community try to reach a compromise. I don't think there are easy answers though other than my initial point about personalising things I don't know what else to suggest. It is difficult.
"If you just post a link and a title then I don't see any value in that - how do we even know you read it. I've noticed a lot of people just fire out multiple posts per day which take no time and they sometimes get more attention than real genuine posts made by newcomers."
You are very right.
"I think with the TIL thing we have as a community try to reach a compromise. "
Not sure what you mean by "compromise".
IMO, even TIL posts should not be allowed to be of low quality - by law quality I mean plagiarism/copypasta or "1 sentence, 1 YT video link" posts.
If someone wants to post poor quality then it is fine. but we all should agree not to reward if for more than 2sdb (just an idea for the amount). Steemit community has to come to consensus on this. This requires certian whales to agree on that, so they will not incentivize poor content by curating it.
Amen!! Well said. I hope you read my main reply in this thread, it is dedicated to not only the author, but people like you! I appreciate what you do.
I do agree that the TIL posts are an attempted compromise at finding value in shorter posts. Just because a post is short doesn't necessarily translate to poor quality (those they can.) I tend to fall in the same mode of thought with @thecryptofiend that I need to see something personal added in the mix. If I feel that it was simply a copy/pasted paragraph or two, then there isn't that personal touch that is necessary to make it stand out from what that original author had done. Personally that concept of added value (which personalizing accomplishes in my eyes) is how I tend to 'judge' borderline posts.
I can agree with this as well as @thecryptofiend's points. Regardless of how much I may like something, if it is solely a title and a link/video, I just can't get myself to vote for it, even if I like it.
There really is quite a bit to be said for actually framing the "non-original" content in this sense. Simply adding that paragraph or two that explains the link/video, that users personal take on it, and maybe a bit on why we should care goes a long way in my personal book. I'll admit what is required to 'add value' to a post is subjective, but I would expect most people would find some added value when including the above. Even if it's not chosen to be voted for, this would go a long way to prevent receiving flags.