A look at Steemit.inc delegation philosophy.

silentscreamer (69)in #steemit • 6 years ago (edited)

Lately i was thinking about Steemit.inc and its employees involvement in the daily workings of Steem. Their contribution to the user growth and user retention through use of their stake, so i decided to put it into words as best i could.
That often turns into "ranting" but i hope that it wont be taken in bad blood. :)

Anyways....
Some stake holders are proponents of Steemit.inc neutrality and absence from the surface workings of the platform. A sort of: "Deo absente".
This can be understandable to a point. The origin of Steemit.inc and their employees SP is not purely fiat/crypto investment nor earned from content creation.
The "mining" controversy exists but if the market values the mined Steem as much as it values "ours" then regardless of the mined Steem sitting idle, it has the same value for the holders and we should value it the same.
Just because its mined doesnt mean it shouldnt be used to affect the dynamics of daily Steem life.
Stake is stake at the end of the day.

Of course, outside the few known ones, im unsure which account is actually that of Steemit.inc and which is of a Steemit.inc employees.
But you cannot convince me that accounts like @val-a, @val-b, @ned and others like them withhold that SP based on personal choice rather then based on a "corporate decision".

On to the topic in question:

I read the Steem whitepaper few months back and i like to think i understand the philosophy that was intended to be adopted here.
I also know for a fact there are numerous projects on the steem blockchain that are completely in sync with that philosophy.
So why are we only seeing delegation being sent to developers that create platforms on the Steem blockchain like steempress, dtube, dlive, etc?...

Why are all the other projects being ignored?

When looking for potential targets for steemit.inc delegation i believe that 2 things should be looked at.

1. Contribution to user retention
2. Contribution to attracting users.

Now obviously most of the current projects that received delegation do have those 2 covered to some extent, but so do some other projects, maybe even in a much higher degree, that fall into the "Curation" category that is mostly ignored by the Steemit.inc "wallets".

@ned came out on live tv few weeks ago and talked about the problems Steem was facing (imo, not the smartest move, but whatever. :D ).....
So why not help those that through their work are trying to fight those same problems he admitted in front of a live tv audience, an audience of potential users and investors?
Im really trying to understand this "absence" narrative and i cant wrap my head around it.

One of the curie curators @carlgnash wrote a great comment on one of my posts talking about the importance of projects like Curie for the Steem blockchain. A project that rewards content with high payouts and exposure. Content that is closest to being perceived by most as high quality.

Now consider the implication of that. Is there really anything comparable on the steem blockchain to projects like Curie, when we are talking about attracting new users to the platform and rewarding those that create value for a platform?
The user that receives the Curie, do you not think the first thing he does is spread word about how he/she earned 30$, 40$, 50$, 60$ (whatever it is at these prices) from posting content on a blockchain based social media website?
What is the first thing that will be mentioned?

Same thing goes, maybe even more so, for projects like #openmic. A music competition/community that at this point can rival any music related blockchain by itself when looking at consistency (Almost at week 100, regularly from 150-300 entries per week) quality, user retention...
Now consider if OpenMic received some kind of support from Steemit.inc. That would be a huge boost for all the musicians being a part of this community. With higher support in the long run participating musicians could invest more into their music, create a major strength for attracting new users to this platform. Not only musicians but viewers as well.

Both these projects with Steemit.inc support would change the face of the Steemit trending page for the better.

@ned, your philosophy of delegating only to platforms that offer content placement while not supporting projects that offer quality content rewarding and exposure , i think, makes your philosophy lacking in results.

You guys wrote in the whitepaper what you wanted Steem to be about, what the core ideas were, what the goals were, but if you stand idle with your stake at the side, never really contributing to the fullest to make that "ideal" you had a reality, i must conclude that you do not hold the beliefs you wrote down in the whitepaper strongly enough.

Im really looking for some reason, and i cant find any, for these projects, and projects like them, not being considered for steemit.inc delegation. Love to hear some thoughts.

All the best, and ill see you guys later...

been a while since my last rant. The pitchforks are in the back.. haha

🌟KEEP ON STEEMING🌟

#steem #curie #openmic #helpie

6 years ago in #steemit by silentscreamer (69)

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pennsif (79) 6 years ago

The mega-delegations fascinate me.

As time rolls on there are two tests that those delegations must stand up against.

If after say 1 year, which of the dApps would be able to stand on their own two feet if the mega delegation was removed?
If a better version of a dApp comes along, will the delegation be moved to the newer, better dApp?

The mega-delegations are probably the single biggest influence on the steem platform at the moment. They need to be handled with care.

Host of The Alternative Lifestyle Show on MSP Waves Radio.

Editor of the Weekly Schedule of Steem Radio Shows.

Founder of the A Dollar A Day charitable giving project.

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silentscreamer (69) 6 years ago

I dont think on their own dapps would be able to thrive or build a creator base. They are too similar to the existing platforms that already exist and are known globally. The strenght of dapps isnt in their idea or UI or quality, and we cant expect it to be in such a young economy.
Their strenght comes from what Dan and Ned created.
Thats why im saying that steemit.inc should not only focus on those that cannot stand without them, but also look at those that can, and help them push forward.
These two projects i mentioned because i am invested in them. But there are numerous others as well.

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abh12345 (76) 6 years ago

hey @pennsif

I think these 'visionary' dapps would love to be able to stand on their own two feet. A year is likely cutting it fine though, at least in the size of the rewards they would be able to distribute. They are leading the way (and thus imo deserve a kick-start), but it could be the case that a new and improved dapp arrives, with external funding (via SMT perhaps) and takes over the space.

The mega-delegations are probably the single biggest influence on the steem platform at the moment. They need to be handled with care.

The bid-bots compare with the amount delegated SP going out to dapps - not sure I could use the word 'care' in this case :)

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abh12345 (76) 6 years ago (edited)

While I understand the general presence of your post, I feel it's somewhat contradictory.

@curie are such an excellent asset, and they have supported my Engagement league for months. However, I don't feel they are a key element in attracting users to Steem - retaining them to a certain extent, yes.

The projects that @ned has delegated to via @misterdelegation are the applications that are likely to grow and promote the blockchain to the outside world.

Delegations to the likes of utopian-io, fundition, dlive, dtube, steemhunt, and recently steempress-io have the potential to bring users who blog, vlog, fund raise, and develop, at present on the WWW to Steem. (I'm also hoping that @oracle-d get a look-in for delegation as this project has the potential to bring in a different category of account as to those above - investors).

Again, I support @curie and @comedyopenmic with witness votes, delegation, and votes where I can, but if feel it is the applications that are developed on the Steem blockchain that have the most potential to attract new users and investors - and if the content/rewards are in-line with expectations, they will stick around. So based on that, I have no real issue with how ned has spread over 16 million SP out thus far.

Cheers!

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silentscreamer (69) 6 years ago (edited)

Well i have to disagree. As i wrote above its about retention and attracting users .
Dtube/dlive/dsound/Utopian without the ability to give out rewards would not be able to attract many users. That is the harsh truth. Streamers, Video creators, musicians all go to a platform that offers them a potential for a strong viewership, that in turn leads to profit.
So on your point that those platforms have the potential to promote the Steem blockchain externally arent really valid. They base their sucess on Mega delegations and the blockchain technology. Their promoting potential is very close to the same level of #openmic, @curie...
Its the earning potential that is important. Its always been about that.
So my question is why are all the curation projects completely ignored while the content placement projects whose main draw-in is the curation aspect, arent?

Steempress has extremely limited reach or potential on the grand scale of things. Not saying that it shouldnt have received the delegation, but honestly some curation projects achieve the same thing, with a much bigger potential audience, with much less.
Consider Steempress results without the delegation.
Honestly, if you cant make it on your own and attract interest with your work, then i dont think you deserve to be given any support for free.

Openmic and Curie reached the point they did on their own, with the hard work of people involved. They werent given anything and achieved so much. Now consider how much they could achieve with the same treatment others have.

I just dont think applications cut it on theit own.. There are millions upon millions of applications on the internet, mayn of them similar to the ones here...
The attraction is in the rewards. Rewards attracts users, the more users you have the more quality you accumulate. And without being able to give rewards i dont think any of these platforms would be that successful at this point.
We will need to wait a long time until dtube/dlive/dsound can compete in terms site development. There is a huge gap in money involved between a soundcloud/youtube/twitch and dtube/dlive/dsound.

Those 3 applications have massive potential, and if everything goes as expected they will thrive, but the point is that other projects can contribute as well, and already do without any help.

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abh12345 (76) 6 years ago

Dtube/dlive/dsound/Utopian without the ability to give out rewards would not be able to attract any users.

Perhaps, but this is also true for @curie no?

In the past, @curie had over a million in delegations, val-a (or b) being the main delegator, and I suspect he is related to Steem inc.

So on your point that those platforms have the potential to promote the Steem blockchain externally arent really valid. Their promoting potential is very close to the same level of #openmic, @curie...

I disagree. If i was a singer of a blogger without any knowledge of Steem, and I ran a google search on where i could produce content that could be rewarded, it is the dapps that would appear, and not the accounts of Steem.

The idea to boost the dapps for as long as possible, so that they can then stand on their own is a valid approach to me. Sure it would be nice to see the communities mentioned above large delegations also - perhaps more user accounts can contribute in the mean time.

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silentscreamer (69) 6 years ago (edited)

Is it not proving my point that a Steem.inc employee removed support for Curie?
Yes. The dapps would appear.

and I ran a google search on where i could produce content that could be rewarded

Exactly. Thats the curation aspect i talk about. The earning potential is what people are interested in. And its not only dapps that offer it.

And i really dont think anyone googles that. How it really starts is through word of mouth and networking. How much something is written and spoken about on the internet.
Give a musician few hundred dollars, or a blogger and see how much he will spread that around.

Every website writes: "Hey you can produce content here and get rewarded".

People tend to distrust those things. What creates interest is people ecstatic about those 100$ they made.

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abh12345 (76) 6 years ago

is it not proving my point that a Steem.inc employee removed support for Curie?

Yes, if this account was steem inc related, and not just a kind user supporting an early initiative to reward excellent content, prior to there being dapps/bots.

The dapps do what curie does, but to a more restricted type of content. But they have with them another front-end to Steem. This is the future, along with SMT.

If I was to mention Steem to someone now (as I did 3 days ago), I take the route of dtube, utopian, and fundition.

Do you make videos?

Are you an open source developer?

Ahh you run a justgiving page, check these guys out...

Explaining that there is an account that may reward you once (a month) for an exceptional piece of content is not how I've gone about it.

I honestly get where you are coming from, I'm a curie curator, delegator, witness voter, and benefactor for my weekly EL post, but I do not consider them as main drivers to push this blockchain forward, and with sadness, neither does ned.

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silentscreamer (69) 6 years ago (edited)

And thats good. Having Curie that will reward you once a month for quality content.
Strength of Steem comes from diversified projects that contribute in their own way.
Openmic is about rewarding quality musicians. Curie is about rewarding quality content across the board. Utopian is about open-source projects. Dtube. Dlive.... Etc...

I think our discussion diverged from my argument that non content placement projects deserve support from Steemit.inc to a discussion about dapps...
Again. Its not that they should not receive delegation. Its that other projects like the ones i listed should as well.

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2 votes

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charitybot (63) 6 years ago

Everyone is beating around the bush but I'll tell it to you straight. Curators used to receive official delegations but there's a reason why @surpassinggoogle is the only one who retained his. It's as simple as that.

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mountainjewel (68) 6 years ago (edited)

found your post through Asher and i definitely see his points on them delegating to the larger platforms, and i also 100% agree with you that the unused SP could definitely go to support some amazing projects!! personally when i noticed all that idle SP it seemed such a waste! i was in sleuth mode that day and i think i even looked at all of the Votes that one of the 1mil SP stinc accounts had & it was literally just a few... ever! I totally do not understand why that Sp would sit Idle. I know the "founders" are happy about the abundance Steem is bringing into people's lives (and proud that people in some places can make a living from it), so why would this potential abundance just sit? fishy!!

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passion-ground (63) 6 years ago

Well articulated post, SS... and a rather interesting comment thread in kind!
You ROCK, girlfriend!

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apolymask (67) 6 years ago (edited)

I agree with you and I think certain communities should be considered personally. I don't see why they aren't considered exactly? Not sure if there's an official reason or not..?

But.. I run a relatively small contest. We've had close to 20 entries at times, but.. I've had probably around 10 different people or more tell me things like.. "Your contest is what steemit should be" "I like your contest more than I like steemit" "I woulda quit if it wasn't for your contest" "Your contest helps me keep posting".

And like I said.. We're small. I'm a dolphin with very little SP to go around, if we had delegations or EVEN a really generous whale to help out.. I think it would be incredibly valuable..

If they really care about their platform they should ensure that some of the best communities that bring people in and keep them posting should be able to keep running.

If steemit inc delegated to groups like open mic and darkhorses contest and ours and a few others.. I think it would serve the platform immensely. It would bring a lot of new people in, and it would help with retention a bunch too.

But.. It is what it is I suppose. I'm not holding my breath and I don't expect any help. I just do the best I can cause I believe in it and enjoy it and hope eventually some higher ups will notice and make our contest easier to maintain, and more effective in its reach.

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silentscreamer (69) 6 years ago

Ok. Sure. You can delegate to dapps with good ideas but why is it that communities, curation projects, all those things that keep people and attract them on a social media site arent considered. It doesnt have to be a mega delegation.
Id love to hear Ned at least touch on the subject but as Meno said... He might be taking a step back and picking only dapps means staying neutral.
But is staying neutral really that good for the platform or is it good for Ned?

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phoneinf (72) 6 years ago (edited)

Might be too much going on right now.

I remember hitting 100K subs on YouTube and it gave me paranoid feelings for a couple of months! Let this Steemit thing sink in 2-3 years and I think Ned is ready for a new paradigm shift of global abundance :)

As more people become abundant there will be more humans that can have important roles. I think this Steem Blockchain will grow organic and natural right now just as we have seen with the Internet. It's now in the hands of the People, Investors... Geeks... Developers... Regular humans and so on... So no single human will be what people are looking on.

We saw with the "Jerry thing" that things tend to work itself out naturally by the large Steem Token holders. Since they care about their investment. So if things get's a bit wild it will self regulate to a better balanced state which works best for majority. :D

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sdream (49) 6 years ago

In any case, developing users is the number one priority.

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silentscreamer (69) 6 years ago

Not saying it shouldnt be. The thing is that a lot of SP is idle and could be used for the betterment of the platform through delegation to projects that also yield great results.

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sdream (49) 6 years ago (edited)

Yes, more SPs can also be used to motivate new users and high quality writers. And , it is good to be used for the betterment of the platform through delegation to projects that also yield great results.

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