IMO it's an educational problem. Yes, we have a standard and we have rules in this network, but they're neither clearly communicated nor does the majority of users feel the need to live them.
We've been talking about the need of an in-depth onboarding that includes tutorials and a profound explanation of the network's rules BEFORE people join this community and go crazy on the blockchain for ages. We could even reward people for watching tutorials (or even doing a short test afterwards), I mean we have all the necessary tools to incentivate whatever task.
It's so unefficient to pass on education and then leave it to the already overloaded steemcleaners team to try fix the problems later on. Few regular users use their VP to downvote which is another educational problem. We're all accountable to the efficiency of this network which is part of the decentralized idea. But how many could even explain the term decentralized? ................ and so on.
With regards to witnesses: it would be nice to have a control system in such way that already elected top witnesses would need to educate the new ones. Every sub-community should take care of their own members, like that duties are shared.
We'll be growing long white beards talking about these topics...
Resteemed to provide it with a little more attention.
Having only been on here for a month now I am a little confused by all of this, although I get the gist of what is going on, but i personally would have benefited from having a run down of the rules etc before joining. Although there is a great deal of information in the FAQ i must say some of it is still confusing if you are totally new to all of this and i have not always found the answer i needed on there. Minds.com rewards people for time spent interacting, watching, i think incentives do work.
Hi rok. I agree with you that is spamming and not a sincere comment at all. If you are going to make a comment and want to be supported don't have a generic comment do your dirty work for you.
I'm sorry, but this is an utterly obtuse and irresponsible post, especially for someone that's been around here for quite a while. Are you not aware by now that ANYONE can run a witness?? Are you not aware that it's the job of the community (NOT Steemit Inc. or any other centralized entity) to support or not support a witness WITH OUR VOTES...and that this person has no support from the community to speak of? Are you not aware that if this person was an elected block-producing witness, they would likely lose support of the community if they started spamming like this?
The funny and sad thing about all this is that if I wanted to cause some mischief around here, I might run a witness and start spamming for the votes of obtuse and irresponsible people with high reps in hopes of inducing them to make a federal case out of it, trash talk the platform, cause FUD among newbies, and maybe even rage quit over it.
Guess I was delusional that witnesses “should” be held accountable to some sort of standard of acceptable conduct.
And you’re correct - I ought to get ahold of myself. I did go off with this. This isn’t the first time I’ve allowed myself to be swayed with some of the faults of the way this platform is governed, and ought to have recognized when it was time to pull away. There are times when I might let my emotional reactions get the best of me, and you’ve clearly identified that this was one of those times. And I respect your calling it out as such.
Nonetheless, I shall not apologize for calling out bullshit when I witness members of this community being outright conned and spammed by someone who’s presenting themselves as a “leader”here. Perhaps I did overreact. Though it was not without fair reason.
Either way, I appreciate the honest feedback.
And to add...
Perhaps the point isn’t whether I am aware of the whole situation regarding how the witness voting works...
But rather, are the countless people newer than you and I, whom this “witness” has been lying to and spamming...?
If this guy is shoving bullshit down the throats of dozens of community members per day... do you really expect that all of them understand how the whole witness thing works, and are able to discern that they’re being played by a fucking spam bot...?
Maybe as more and more people come onto this site, standards of conduct NEED to be set, such that it is crystal-clear what is and isn’t* appropriate conduct.
And guaranteed, the vast majority of newbies don’t know the full details of what’s up with the witness situation.
So, would it really be better to keep quiet when such abuses take place like this, letting unacceptable behavior slide by unacknowledged...? Or bringing some attention to it, if for no other reason that to send out a ripple effect, educating those not in-the-know that these are examples of conduct that are not acceptable...?
If the answer is that we just shouldn’t give a shit and better let spamming bullshitters carry on about their business while claiming to have the community’s best interest in mind, then it’s only a matter of time before I pack my bags and get the fuck outta here before this wild-wild-west of an unprofessional sandbox burns to the ground due to a lack of actual integrity-based leadership...
Though sometimes, it may be more suitable to speak up.
i.e. I could have just gone on a mad flagging rampage, flagging this “witness’” spam comments; however, given that my voting power was low at the time and his rep score was fairly high, it probably wouldn’t have made too much of a dent, he wouldn’t have noticed, and even if he had, I wouldn’t have expected him to get why, to the same degree as though I expressed it directly and clearly. And, it wasn’t entirely to condemn him that was my intention, but perhaps moreso raise awareness to others in the community who are not yet aware that such behavior is not appropriate here, so they can spot it for themselves when encountering in the future, rather than being duped into thinking they just got a genuine compliment.
OR, tombstone could have flagged my post, (and for all I know, maybe he did), but I wouldn’t have noticed - nor would I have understood why. His straightforward sharing of his viewpoint was much more effective - and appreciated, as it brings the counter-perspective out into the open, which is also of benefit to other members who may end up reading, providing them a broader spectrum of opinions on the matter.
This is spamming under every circumstance, no other way to look at it, and such activity stands really bad for the platform, witnesses are not to be exempted from what the community deems as inappropriate and unfit for the growth of the platform, after all we are all stakeholders, such conduct should be checked.
What is being done in the wallets memo are enough, this is way too vile coming from a witness
I can't stand the absolutely non-technical "witnesses," who are just a face and have some hidden, unknown person behind the scenes manning the technicalities. I have no respect for that whatsoever.
Stupidity aside, it’s rather discouraging that there are zero checks in place to ensure that witnesses can’t be held accountable to such basic standards of conduct as not continually spamming users.
The reward system for flagging content on Steemit needs to be changed so that flagging pointless content has more of a reward which incentives the general community to do the right thing and flag this kind of useless stuff on a more constant basis. Spam posts are worse then spam comments but either way both are not ideal for the user experience and the perception of the platform as a whole and this is one of the first social media platforms that has ever existed that COULD solve the problem simply by altering the reward system on the flagging side of things but for some reason has yet to do so... maybe some day...
Yes, I agree it's bad behavior. I've never heard of that particular witness, but any douche is entitled to run one; it's not Steemit's job to be a gatekeeper per se. Voting is an important responsibility. It's the voters who need to pay attention to which witnesses are trustworthy and which ones are operating questionable operations. There is a reason I have plenty of blank spots and am not using all of my witness votes. I'd rather feel good about a smaller number that I support.
If they're campaigning, they need to be campaigning to peoples' WALLETS in the form of something better than 0.001 SBD, don't clutter someone's post with garbage.
If someone drops 1+ SBD/Steem for example into my wallet, I'll give their message a little thought, they have my attention. Otherwise it's simply spam and speaks for itself, drop 'er in the garbage pile and give it a flag.
I did get such spam into my wallet, went to the post where the witness was promoting himself and complained on the spamming. Based on the feedback I got, most people considered it legitimate and happy to get 0.001 into their wallets.
As others have already said, everyone can become a witness, just as everyone can run for office. The question is who is elected. And this behavior just lost this particular witness a few votes.
Just one of those things that needs to be fixed for real.
Though I feel steemit HQ interfering in the affairs of the system may undermine thay decentralized and neutral position they are trying to have.
I have sent this post to the SMT telegram page, its basically the inly place we have to interact with the heads of steemit, whales, orcas and the rest that I know of.
IMO it's an educational problem. Yes, we have a standard and we have rules in this network, but they're neither clearly communicated nor does the majority of users feel the need to live them.
We've been talking about the need of an in-depth onboarding that includes tutorials and a profound explanation of the network's rules BEFORE people join this community and go crazy on the blockchain for ages. We could even reward people for watching tutorials (or even doing a short test afterwards), I mean we have all the necessary tools to incentivate whatever task.
It's so unefficient to pass on education and then leave it to the already overloaded steemcleaners team to try fix the problems later on. Few regular users use their VP to downvote which is another educational problem. We're all accountable to the efficiency of this network which is part of the decentralized idea. But how many could even explain the term decentralized? ................ and so on.
With regards to witnesses: it would be nice to have a control system in such way that already elected top witnesses would need to educate the new ones. Every sub-community should take care of their own members, like that duties are shared.
We'll be growing long white beards talking about these topics...
Resteemed to provide it with a little more attention.
Having only been on here for a month now I am a little confused by all of this, although I get the gist of what is going on, but i personally would have benefited from having a run down of the rules etc before joining. Although there is a great deal of information in the FAQ i must say some of it is still confusing if you are totally new to all of this and i have not always found the answer i needed on there. Minds.com rewards people for time spent interacting, watching, i think incentives do work.
Great ideas!
Thank you!
Hi rok. I agree with you that is spamming and not a sincere comment at all. If you are going to make a comment and want to be supported don't have a generic comment do your dirty work for you.
🙌
And from a WITNESS... that is the shit the disgusts me!
I'm sorry, but this is an utterly obtuse and irresponsible post, especially for someone that's been around here for quite a while. Are you not aware by now that ANYONE can run a witness?? Are you not aware that it's the job of the community (NOT Steemit Inc. or any other centralized entity) to support or not support a witness WITH OUR VOTES...and that this person has no support from the community to speak of? Are you not aware that if this person was an elected block-producing witness, they would likely lose support of the community if they started spamming like this?
The funny and sad thing about all this is that if I wanted to cause some mischief around here, I might run a witness and start spamming for the votes of obtuse and irresponsible people with high reps in hopes of inducing them to make a federal case out of it, trash talk the platform, cause FUD among newbies, and maybe even rage quit over it.
My god, man, get a hold of yourself. Seriously.
Guess I was delusional that witnesses “should” be held accountable to some sort of standard of acceptable conduct.
And you’re correct - I ought to get ahold of myself. I did go off with this. This isn’t the first time I’ve allowed myself to be swayed with some of the faults of the way this platform is governed, and ought to have recognized when it was time to pull away. There are times when I might let my emotional reactions get the best of me, and you’ve clearly identified that this was one of those times. And I respect your calling it out as such.
Nonetheless, I shall not apologize for calling out bullshit when I witness members of this community being outright conned and spammed by someone who’s presenting themselves as a “leader”here. Perhaps I did overreact. Though it was not without fair reason.
Either way, I appreciate the honest feedback.
And to add...
Perhaps the point isn’t whether I am aware of the whole situation regarding how the witness voting works...
But rather, are the countless people newer than you and I, whom this “witness” has been lying to and spamming...?
If this guy is shoving bullshit down the throats of dozens of community members per day... do you really expect that all of them understand how the whole witness thing works, and are able to discern that they’re being played by a fucking spam bot...?
Maybe as more and more people come onto this site, standards of conduct NEED to be set, such that it is crystal-clear what is and isn’t* appropriate conduct.
And guaranteed, the vast majority of newbies don’t know the full details of what’s up with the witness situation.
So, would it really be better to keep quiet when such abuses take place like this, letting unacceptable behavior slide by unacknowledged...? Or bringing some attention to it, if for no other reason that to send out a ripple effect, educating those not in-the-know that these are examples of conduct that are not acceptable...?
If the answer is that we just shouldn’t give a shit and better let spamming bullshitters carry on about their business while claiming to have the community’s best interest in mind, then it’s only a matter of time before I pack my bags and get the fuck outta here before this wild-wild-west of an unprofessional sandbox burns to the ground due to a lack of actual integrity-based leadership...
In a decentralized community you can take up this responsibility yourself and flag the comments, showing that user you disprove of their conduct.
Of course.
Though sometimes, it may be more suitable to speak up.
i.e. I could have just gone on a mad flagging rampage, flagging this “witness’” spam comments; however, given that my voting power was low at the time and his rep score was fairly high, it probably wouldn’t have made too much of a dent, he wouldn’t have noticed, and even if he had, I wouldn’t have expected him to get why, to the same degree as though I expressed it directly and clearly. And, it wasn’t entirely to condemn him that was my intention, but perhaps moreso raise awareness to others in the community who are not yet aware that such behavior is not appropriate here, so they can spot it for themselves when encountering in the future, rather than being duped into thinking they just got a genuine compliment.
OR, tombstone could have flagged my post, (and for all I know, maybe he did), but I wouldn’t have noticed - nor would I have understood why. His straightforward sharing of his viewpoint was much more effective - and appreciated, as it brings the counter-perspective out into the open, which is also of benefit to other members who may end up reading, providing them a broader spectrum of opinions on the matter.
This is spamming under every circumstance, no other way to look at it, and such activity stands really bad for the platform, witnesses are not to be exempted from what the community deems as inappropriate and unfit for the growth of the platform, after all we are all stakeholders, such conduct should be checked.
What is being done in the wallets memo are enough, this is way too vile coming from a witness
🙌
anybody can start a witness...even stupid people
I can't stand the absolutely non-technical "witnesses," who are just a face and have some hidden, unknown person behind the scenes manning the technicalities. I have no respect for that whatsoever.
Clearly.
Stupidity aside, it’s rather discouraging that there are zero checks in place to ensure that witnesses can’t be held accountable to such basic standards of conduct as not continually spamming users.
The reward system for flagging content on Steemit needs to be changed so that flagging pointless content has more of a reward which incentives the general community to do the right thing and flag this kind of useless stuff on a more constant basis. Spam posts are worse then spam comments but either way both are not ideal for the user experience and the perception of the platform as a whole and this is one of the first social media platforms that has ever existed that COULD solve the problem simply by altering the reward system on the flagging side of things but for some reason has yet to do so... maybe some day...
Yes, I agree it's bad behavior. I've never heard of that particular witness, but any douche is entitled to run one; it's not Steemit's job to be a gatekeeper per se. Voting is an important responsibility. It's the voters who need to pay attention to which witnesses are trustworthy and which ones are operating questionable operations. There is a reason I have plenty of blank spots and am not using all of my witness votes. I'd rather feel good about a smaller number that I support.
Unfortunately, there is a witness had this bad behavior and you voted him as witness. For details please read The Dark Hand of Steemit
If they're campaigning, they need to be campaigning to peoples' WALLETS in the form of something better than 0.001 SBD, don't clutter someone's post with garbage.
If someone drops 1+ SBD/Steem for example into my wallet, I'll give their message a little thought, they have my attention. Otherwise it's simply spam and speaks for itself, drop 'er in the garbage pile and give it a flag.
I did get such spam into my wallet, went to the post where the witness was promoting himself and complained on the spamming. Based on the feedback I got, most people considered it legitimate and happy to get 0.001 into their wallets.
*“most people considered it legitimate and happy to get 0.001 into their wallets....???”
At least most of the people that read my comment and bothered replying to it. Here it is:
https://steemit.com/witness-category/@emrebeyler/announcing-myself-as-a-new-witness-emrebeyler#@tobixen/re-emrebeyler-announcing-myself-as-a-new-witness-emrebeyler-20180329t221128561z
Rather interesting, how differently viewpoints can oppose each other, yet both actually have some sense/merit...
So if you get spammed 1000 times, you get either a collective 1 SBD or Steem!!! Fantastic deal!!!
/s
As others have already said, everyone can become a witness, just as everyone can run for office. The question is who is elected. And this behavior just lost this particular witness a few votes.
Just one of those things that needs to be fixed for real.
Though I feel steemit HQ interfering in the affairs of the system may undermine thay decentralized and neutral position they are trying to have.
I have sent this post to the SMT telegram page, its basically the inly place we have to interact with the heads of steemit, whales, orcas and the rest that I know of.
the fact that they are still using telegram and not discord should tell you a lot about how in touch with the community the DEVS are...
There is a dev community on discord tho, where you can get get devs for hire i think