The Truly Organic, NoBidbot, Trending, Hot and New Lists are coming soon! Stay Tuned.
4/27/18: THIS PROJECT HAS BEEN PUT ON HOLD AND IS SLATED TO BE ADOPTED BY @whatamidoing
You can read more about it here
The replies to this post reflect the reasons behind this change.
I @bycoleman, am happy to turn it over and hope that the @whatamidoing team can bring it to its full glory!
The #nobidbot tag was introduced by @whatamidoing a few weeks back in his post:
Why don’t we all protest the Trending and Hot page? - #nobidbot
@whatamidoing wrote:
Is there any point in checking the Trending page? Any whatsoever?
Nearly all of the posts in Trending and Hot have been paid for. Even whales can’t compete with an army of bidbots anymore.
If the whole page is filled with posts who merely paid to get there, it means that there is absolutely NO correlation between quality and payout. There are posts with $200 payouts where $196 is from paid bidbots. The high payout merely gives the illusion of quality.
I propose we make use of a tag (#nobidbot) for users who are not using any bidbots and encourage whales and dolphins to get onboard and support us. If we can get some good curation on the #nobidbot tag we can also encourage many of the users of those bidbots to stop and join our cause as they discover there are more ways to succeed without these kind of schemes.
The #nobidbot tag was further adopted by @looktothefuture in this post.
So, the more I thought about this concept, the more I realized how @byColeman and I could utilize @transparencybot to help bring awareness and incentives to this tag.
As of 4/18/18, @transparencybot will begin upvoting random posts that use the #nobidbot tag and have not used bidbots on the post.
The number of posts it does per day depends on its remaining voting power.
The tag does not need to be your first tag, i.e., it can be any of your five tags used. NSFW articles are filtered out.
The upvote will not occur for at least 24 hours after you have posted your article.
Currently the upvote value at 100% is about $.15. As @Transparencybot receives more delegations or increases in SP on its own, the upvote value will increase as well.
So the logical progression of course is to have a central place for quality posts
using the #nobidbot tags which are programmatically selected but MANUALLY curated.
This blog will attempt to select and highlight quality posts that meet both the programmatic and manual curation standards.
- Must use the #nobidbot tag
- Must not use any bidbots, resteemers are not strictly forbidden but discouraged.
- Post must be at least 24 hours old (To be added to the manually curated list).
- Currently there is no author reputation limit, wealth filters or exclusions based on quantity, but these factors may influence manual curation.
- Although not fully disallowed, auto-voting and circular voting (from multi-account authors) logic will be considered to prevent abuse of these tools.
Posts that meet the above programmatic criteria
will be selected and listed in our organic Trending, Hot and New list. This is a list of articles that DID NOT USE BIDBOTS; therefor, if they are voted up, it is because people believe they are worth their vote ... Pretty simple concept isn't it!
Exceptional post that are found via additional manual curation will appear in both a separate list and may also be resteemed here and other companion blogs including @transparencybot, @introbot, @looktofuture as well as other participating authors.
This is just a start and much of this may be revised as we receive feedback and gain knowledge.
Please stay tuned. If you would like to be involved, please let us know.
Curators will be listed in the replies below.
Brought to you by @Transparencybot and @byColeman, with special thanks to @whatamidoing for introducing the #nobidbot tag.
Let's start a fire and get quality back on the trending list!!
Why is that?
If a post renders an NSFW image or associated text, it to must be marked as NSFW.
This blog reproduces the primary image and title in the various lists it creates.
So, this is not about censorship, but simple logistics.
This is a perfect example of something I’d like to discuss and agree upon as a community rather than having one person decide.
Besides the bidbots, there were and are circle jerks like MSP and accounts like currie.
Are such arrangements better than bidbots?
Are they more organic?
Are they more ethical?
Or is it best when ppl eat ass for upvotes?
something that needs to be considered, sometimes yes, sometimes no, there are all kind of people on steem, that's true, I don't think organic is something looked for :D I think steem is the goal here...
You got a 66.67% upvote from @proffit courtesy of @stimialiti!
Send at least 0.01 SBD/STEEM to get upvote , Send 1 SBD/STEEM to get upvote + resteem
I use them but would rather there be some sort of middle ground or monitoring. There are a lot of fake accounts that upvote and carry on that provide no value to the community. But, if I could pay to put my content somewhere for it to be in front of an audience of human beings I would do that as well because I feel like sooner or later someone would be into what I'm doing. Steem shouldn't be so dang boring.
This sounds like an exciting initiative, and it is definitely part of the "New Steemit" that's arising and working towards a content and community driven venue. And that makes me super happy!
I see more and more posts like this, along with posts and efforts by people like @krnel, @abh12345 and @davemccoy and there seems to be a glimmer of hope that we CAN guide Steemit back in a better direction that's not just about creating a giant cash dispensing circle jerk!
Woo-hoo for that!
=^..^=
Thank you very much for the king words and support.
It is going to take a community of support for this and the others to work, but as you say the movement is VERY apparent.
@bycoleman, you will succeed
Thank you, it will take a community effort!
You're true @curatorcat. We anticipate a #SteemitRebirth
I LOVE how quickly this is evolving, such a great idea. #nobidbot is my new trending page!
That is the world we live in where evolution revolution accelerates like Vanilla Ice haha.
It is just a start, but it could be the catalyst for a new front end.
Cannot wait for that, and things like that, #nobidbot posts for example, and other things in general, more customizations like MySpace had in 2007. Steemit, Busy, are great. Filtering between bots & non-bot, theoretically, is what we generally seek after it seems and I do agree in going that direction. It means more competition as we all like human to human curated posts to be able to trend like the bot curated posts. There is still a debate that people have in all of that, and that is what the competition is all about as we all vote and decide together what we want to vote on and what we want to see and the User Interface (UI) as well.
I very much like the idea of the organic trending, hot and new list pages. Where will we find them? Won't they just automatically spring up under the nobidbot tag as people filter through those? Or will they show up elsewhere, too?
Here I guess :D https://steemit.com/trending/nobidbot
(Does that count as a shameless plug?)
You can change 'trending' to 'hot' or 'new' too.
Yes, you can do that, but those post may actually use bid bots.
I plan on creating lists within this blog that will update automatically and sub sort by category, for example life, crypto, introduceyourself, etc.
Later, some of this might move to an off site server to create a richer user experience, with the links bringing them right back to Steemit.
Sounds good.
I have a feeling that the up and coming (where is it?!) communities will 'guard' against posts voted by Bid-bots.
There will need to be either a list of Bots, or the communities will be closed - I guess managing a Bot list might be easier.
Then you've got the issue of Pay for vote services, where someone has delegated their SP to MB or SS, etc.
What I was doing here - section 3, was taking a look at Transfers, and anyone receiving a delegation payout was part of the 'other bots'.
And then you've got the behind the scenes vote buying - probably the trickiest of the lot to solve.
Early days though!
Yes, these are all valid concerns and I am aware of all of them. Each of them will need to be addressed via community feedback as much as anything.
Systematic voting from repeat accounts is easy to spot and can be indicated.
Delegations from or too a bot will probably not be considered since it in no way changes the voting on the particular post that is being judged worthy or not of being on the nobidbot list. We will need to judge the post, not the author.
Vote buying via off site communications will be all but impossible to address fully, (yet patterns do develop) but if they make a transfer via ANY wallet with the post url in the memo, it will be seen.
I do of course have a list of all bots that I update routinely.
I am using steemSQL to do all the queries so that i do not strain the blockchain. I do all the programming in SteemJ.
Are you interested in providing any programming input?
Yes I agree. This was related to a user transferring to SS or MB and receiving a vote back from a 'normal' account, my previous sentence wasn't so clear. :)
I use SteemSQL for my work, but have no SteemJ experience.
Possible, but very unlikely, as it is a high risk that it'll be downvoted out of the tag. It's one thing when they do it on global trending, when the community is split on its usage, and an entirely different matter when they invade a community tag where everyone watching is opposed :)
I have a feeling it will work as is and we'd maintain it. Also I prefer the steemit frontend, but that's just my personal taste hehe...
Okay, cool. That answers my question. In the meantime, we still need to be discerning about what might show up under the nobidbot tag, and then when their ready, go through the blog lists. Can't wait. No pressure or anything. :)
Yea, no pressure!! I had no idea my little pre-announcement would garner so much attention.
So just to take a little pressure off. The first releases will be boring and less than perfect.
There, some of the pressure is off :)
I'd say the idea of a front-end +- identical to steemit but with an added"no bid bots allowed" mention, and showing posts according to this new metric (aka., no bidbots) an interesting idea.
there could even be an added "bidbot addicts" tab that showed the posts having used the most bidbots XD
Yes, I am actually looking at that but it would be down the road. It would have to be hosted on an offsite server that created the UI, but then directed people back to steemit for posting and wallet transfers etc.
Perhaps one of the younger more talented programmers will take up this mission and run with that. It would be VERY profitable to anyone that put it together fully.
I think the main part of the project would be the filtering of information under the different tabs/tags, AKA., through an integration with whatever system you've got up that filters posts depending on bidbots.
The UI itself would be a complete clone of Busy or Steemit, given the websites are open source.
That would really be awesome to have such a front end. I hope you go forward with it.
It would make the #nobidbot tag unnecessary (other than as a statement by the author), since the front end could easily filter out boosted posts and put them in their own tab.
Okay. That's what I was thinking. It sounded like there might be some other list. This to me is great.
Considering you're on the leading edge of using the nobidbot tag, you get a shameless plug promotional pass. :)
ahh, thanks for the pass Glen :)
Quite an amazing project you have created. Trending and hot have become so worthless when trying find things these days I hate to even look at them. It is just disturbing the amount of money people are willing to blow on very basic posts.
You said it, I never look at the trending lists anymore other than to see how much worse the trash trail is from time to time.
at least there is some movement, plus there is some "engagement" I'm still split on bidbots, I really think they are misused as cash cows ... It would be nice to use them when you see something valuable, but there is on return on that, or nobody's done it so far :) that would be nice actually, imagine paying for curation, that would be nice, send sbd, if it's nice great, get it back and a return on your investment,
well the only way to mildly impact the trending is to flag at this point, but nobody likes that and it's bad for business. . .
I’ve once in a while received a bidbot upvote by one of my followers want to support content I’ve created that was above my normal standard. My game reviews tend to be rather in depth so when they very little. A couple of times in the past someone was kind to me at least and help out a little bit.
Impacting Trending
There are a few ways to impact trending. Some of the bigger accounts do go on what seems like flagging parties. You will see a collective group of people doing at least something.
Another way is to find 100% abuse and there are bidbots that will blacklist that user so they can’t do use them again and even if it’s really bad to pull their vote while still keeping the money that was paid. So in effect, those person loses a few times. However what is consider abuse is different from each one and it really has to be a pile of garbage or on a topic, some of them refuse to support. Most time that is joining a bidbots discord one such list of this going on can be found here blacklist update
Another way is to find plagiarism that is trending and not only report it to places like steam cleaners but also to the bidbots owners that are supporting it hoping they pull their votes. The cleaners themselves have over 1.5 million SP. That along with if a couple of places pull their votes will be enough reduced a post down quite a fair amount. I use to have an example of this bookmarked but looks like I lost it. One guy was copy/pasting stuff off google and had a bunch of open posts he bidboted to top of steemit trending. Needless to say, many communities were not happy about that and dealt with it.
Trending
Most seem to want to make it to trending front page of steemit. I rather not lol. Just but a bunch of spam comments, and pissed off people going after your work. Far too many fakes as thinking if they get top comment it will get them upvotes. I’ve had top comment for quite a number of hours on a trending post It made two cents before some guy came along and upvote his spam comment to the top and people just kept doing that lol.
I just go through the 70% crap comments, leave my thoughts here and there and then it's another week of no trending for me, I find that place a bit :D well it's better than before, it's 2 steps up from before, there is some quality, there are some more interesting authors, so bidbots helped with the variety and promotion, but I don't think that's how you get quality, more like hype and that's that,
so ideas about the nobidbot, any suggestions for improvements, I think it's doing great for some reason :D never expected such waves, although I see mostly older authors who are already onto how steem was operating before and prefer having a conversation rather than empty inflated numbers called "promotion"
I’ve yet to use the tag nobidbot-- yet. It like a quiet many other tags I just see when I spend or put a certain amount of energy into something it is now another place I can share it with.
Trending at least has gotten a little better. You can tell some of these people don’t seem to go around and engage with communities or other authors as much. As I don’t think they be spending so much money promoting their stuff if they realized just how substandard it is compared to rest of the platform.
Will be interesting to see if a fair amount of voting power can get behind this tag if people are going try and ruin the tag with their bidbots always getting to trending because so many are using it. I can’t wait for communities feature to arrive where I hope it empowers leaders to control who and what is allowed in. Only time will tell if this is what everyone wants it to be or if it’s just another “that was a cool idea” but not used often.
Looks like a good idea to me!
Steemit seems to have lost its way — or something — along the way. It takes PEOPLE to build a community, not BOTS! If this can help bring the people factor more to the forefront, so much the better!
Bright Blessings!
Exactly. If it does nothing more than fully high light the problem and give a temporary solution than it will be well worth it.
Blessings!
Cool, I will try out the #nobidbot tag, haven't used a bidbot in ages! :D
Excellent. You may already earn a random upvote from transparency bot. It is only worth a little right now, but it is a nice thumbs up at least.
By the way, isn't the Promoted tab for bidbots or what is Promoted for? I barely ever click on Promoted. On Steemit, we see those 4 main tabs, Trending, New, Hot, and Promoted. I understand the first three tabs but am confused about how posts can make it on Promoted. I wanted to mention the Promotion tab as food for thought for people interested in contemplating adding a #nobidbot tab or something..... and maybe Busy doesn't have Promoted but Steemit does. That is interesting. I wonder how many people like Promoted posts or even care to look at it. Maybe Promoted can be replaced with nobidbots or something.
probably won't be, you can burn your money and get featured there, it's still the first idea yeah, steemit actually got this bidbot party started, :D send to @null get featured ... so that's a resteem/reblog feature, the higher the pay the higher you rank, it's still better than the plain abuse I'd say...
well it's been a market economy since day 1 so no wonder it grew into a pay for upvotes media...
How is the @Null bot not abuse and other bots is abuse? What makes one bot deemed as abuse automatically and another bot as not abuse?
Yes! Hot and Trending post is useless anymore because of that paid post. I agree and let's protest that way of promoting their post. Why don't they use the PROMOTE section on their post? Hmmmm
Upvoting this comment will help street children of MANILA to feed them. Read the blog here!
Deligate SP to @rashley01 10SP 25SP 35SP 50SP
well better deal to just selfvote yourself and pay for the whale to do the same, it's funny how it started, people were fed up with the trending page, bernie I think made randowhale, everyone was happy, then all the other came about, now we have what we have, "organic" paid promotion, so that's the evolution of a badly though of promotion feature nobody was using much...