To Solve The Whale DownVote Crisis Why Not Have A Curation System Tied To Reputation Instead?steemCreated with Sketch.

in #steemit8 years ago (edited)

The impossible dream?


As one of the senior posters here on Steemit, and speaking with @andrarchy recently about the whale downvote crisis I suggest this plan put forward by the opinion of @baah in one of his comments the other day. I myself have been under flag attack today from @ausbitbank! The time for all of this to stop has come. Here is @baah's comment in FULL:

Tie the curation system to reputation, so only those above a certain reputation can upvote and downvote, preferably upwards of 30-40 reputation.

That way these shellfish (selfish!) whales that upvote themselves 100% and extract a good percentage for themselves out of the reward pool can be countered effectively and pushed under the threshold for being bad actors, selfish and greedy.



Diminish the power a downvote has and also increase the amount of voting power it uses by 10x.

Create a flagging and counter flagging system would invalidate group efforts, gangstalking, piling on of flags, and bad actors from affecting reputation, and affording the community the tools to nuke these bad actors and curtail their accounts to creating content but not voting/curating or flagging, we are many they are few.

Nobody should spend their voting power on downvotes to counter self voting whales, nor should whales have to do that or expect them to, people should have a flagging system that affects visibility and reputation regardless of vests or reputation of the user. Repeated offenses should weigh more and more to discourage them. Without wasting voting power or need to do such, people can upvote content AND flag content that deserves it or counter flag flags and in turn affecting those flaggers reputations, while revealing the content and the authors reputation, worthy content shouldn't be hidden because of vests. Money rules policing is not a viable system of policing, give us the tools to make policing the community a breeze and a positive and empowering act.

Without this balance nobody will have any incentive to downvote these collusive accounts, outside their selfless altruistic ends, but even with nuked reputations these self voting whales/bad actors can still extract rewards through their self voting, arguably even more effective since they are permahidden.

Tie the curation to reputation over 30-40, so that sockpuppet account cannot upvote the main accounts, and tie the flagging system to over 55-60 reputation or possibly higher so that the majority of people that care about building the community can police collusive self voting behavior and those that resort to flagging for griefing can be stopped effectively without draining the users voting power on these fruitless endeavors.

Htooms has said that because of one flag that he received from fulltimegeek it has earned fulltimegeek 6 months of flags from his account, granted his spineless self has caved, probably because of the exposure I brought onto his evil, trollish self, and instead turned all his accounts onto me LOLOL, there is no way to counter such abuse.

In this respect, it clearly is not fair to ask people to upvote my comments and waste their voting power on something as fruitless as this, nor do I count on any such things and if people want to do that I suggest you find something of value and give it your voting power.

Unlike the "muh victim" @seablue who enjoys that support and adoration from her clique, I will much rather laugh at my attempted oppressors and go toe to toe with them by exposing them to the community again and again.

This flagging issue has been exacerbated recently and it won't go away soon enough.

It will continue to be brought into the spot light, even if I don't do it, because this has been a problem that keeps getting pushed farther and farther into the future by the excuse of "growing community, we will tackle it soon, it's not really a problem yet" and it's keeping the community from growing period, and losing trust in the vision and direction of the developers.

@mindhunter

[P.S. No whales or minnows were harmed in the making of this post]


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The weapon doesn´t make the offender.
You won´t ever be able to create a system that changes the people who use it. We´d rather think about WHY these people don´t have anything else to do than attacking others... One possible reason: they are bored. They are not entertained, not amused, not incentivated. Give them a reason to keep themselves busy in a positive way. That´s at least my theory.

You are trying to change people through a new system, here's why and how.

The weapon doesn´t make the offender.
You won´t ever be able to create a system that changes the people who use it.

Problem isn't that the flagging system has been a constant issue since almost this platform, this is the problem:

We´d rather think about WHY these people don´t have anything else to do than attacking others... One possible reason: they are bored. They are not entertained, not amused, not incentivated

So the solution to fix their behavior is:

Give them a reason to keep themselves busy in a positive way. That´s at least my theory.

My theory isn't that people need to change, at all. For every asshole and troll there are two that will happily take their place, for every bad actor there is two ready to spring up in their absence after we transform the bad actor, troll, asshole into decent folk. That isn't the problem, the problem isn't people, its in the tools people have to deal with these people.

You cannot change people but you can create a better system that gives them the tools to effectively deal with these bad actors, and their shields of money shouldn't protect them and enable them to be bad actors.

Loki suggested that 1 vest = 1 vote linear voting curve, if that's what he was saying.
That would minimize some things but wasting voting power and therefore effort on minimizing these bad actors still remains an issue. We could give the tools to the community have a cop/citizen police at every corner so there is nowhere to hide and nowhere to run from justice.

For every asshole and troll there are two that will happily take their place, for every bad actor there is two ready to spring up in their absence after we transform the bad actor, troll, asshole into decent folk. That isn't the problem, the problem isn't people, its in the tools people have to deal with these people.

I wish you were right. But your "two good cops for one bad cops theory" doesn´t work. The people who are doing well here don´t care about the ones that are attacked. It´s like in real life. Instead of risking to be attacked as well, they rather walk towards the other side of the street. Nothing seen, nothing happened.

Best of luck, I´m done here.

Where did you read two cops for one bad cop? I said that we cannot change people, and even if we do others are there ready to take their place.

The people who are doing well here don´t care about the ones that are attacked.

Stereotyping everyone who does well doesn't work.
As for real life, image_72307503-0387-4ccc-8a13-edf569da5f6e20170315_132528.jpg

My theory is that people can have tools to police the platform effectively.

As @baah says, there are just too many weapons on the table! It's a tough cookie to crack alright ... until someone cracks it :)

There aren´t more weapons on the table now than 12 months ago. The system is still the same, but people have got bored in the meantime. The platform itself is just not exciting enough anymore. It´s the same thing that happens to kids who haven´t learned how to use their own imagination and creativity. If you don´t keep them busy they start doing stupid things :)
Cookies are actually a good idea. I will have some now.

I took your advice and had some cookies.

Coconut ones

And they were fabulous.


I told 2 more people this week about your hot pepper business Marly!

Oh I love Coconut. Mine had some chocolate chips inside. Not too bad either haha
Thanks for spreading the word!!! Too kind ;)

I share your 'not exciting enough anymore' sentiments ... we need a whale down-vote solution and marketing plan ASAP to rescue us from the mire! Enjoy those cookies :)

The suggestions I made does introduce tools for people to defend others with, as the author won't have the tool to defend themselves, they must rely entirely on the community to do that, which is a nuance created out of the fact that they shouldn't be allowed to counter flag, which makes this a "in heaven we eat with long spoons" kind of story.

https://steemit.com/community/@baah/a-solution-to-the-downvoting-flagging-problems-on-steemit

Think about a group of kids where suddenly some of the stronger ones start attacking the weak by beating them with toy blocks. Would you believe that the blocks are the problem and give the weaker kids some weapons to defend themselves accordingly? Or would you rather try to analyze why some kids started grouping and attacking the others in order to solve the source of the problem and not its impact?
Again, you can´t fight it by fighting back. That would be a vicious circle. Ask people WHY they behave like that and you´ll find out HOW to stop them.

Why does that analogy apply here, at all? Because there aren't any adult type figures, nor any aspects that carry semblance of toys.

To solve the problem with the kids you have an adult around, you don't ask why, as that won't solve crap, that's the truth. You have a grown up that can punish or reprimand the gang on behalf of the victim, period.

You are trying to fix people and saying that giving everyone a tool to defend the community with will only create a vicious cycle, how so? Why? Have you went through the system I proposed? If so please explain how and why it will create a vicious cycle. Then maybe we can discuss exactly why you would ask the perpetrators WHY and hope they tell the truth for one and don't just blow you off for another, or simply tell you why and you are still not any closer to figuring out how, outside entertaining whatever form of request or demand they have conveyed, in turn enabling such behavior as positive results are considered encouragement for further such behavior.

They are adults behaving like kids ;)
No I haven't read it. I'm done with steemit so not willing to invest much more energy, thoughts, time here, sorry.
Best of luck!!! Sure you will be doing great 👊

Are you taking a break or breaking free of steemit and going somewhere else?

I'm curious as to what prompted your decision, if I may.

No. Steem needs to be tied to sp. reputation should not matter here.

If that is the case, then what is your solution to all of this @knircky? All solutions most welcome ....

the question of whether it is right that accounts with big stakes can have influence beyond their size really needs to be resolved. In my opinion the answer is clear. one vest one vote.

Sounds good to me @l0k1 - anything that can knock this on the head before we market/steem on is good in my eyes :)

1 vest 1 vote = linear rewards curve right @l0k1? Just educating myself on the various proposals and trying to clarify the distinctions. Thanks for encouraging this discussion @mindhunter

Loading...

And further to my comments before down below, to back up what I am saying and that I put my money where my mouth is despite my challenges daily:

https://steemit.com/steemit/@barrydutton/time-for-a-steemitstrike-by-content-creators-and-daily-users-who-actually-make-this-community-what-it-is-bring-your-harpoons-the


@mindhunter - pls read this before you post or video -- I want you to see this and that I have more than done my part.

I hear you @andrarchy - thanks for dropping in. @l0k1 can now look in from the outside and he makes a perfect ally for us now :)

THIS POST HAS NOW BEEN OFFICIALLY FLAGGED TO DEATH!!! X1

THIS POST HAS NOW BEEN OFFICIALLY FLAGGED TO DEATH!!! X2

THIS POST HAS NOW BEEN OFFICIALLY FLAGGED TO DEATH!!! X3 -THIS POST IS NOW WORTHLESS!

At least these comments don't just contain ":)".

Loving this meme with the "See you Jimmy!" hat! :)

From the film Moby Dick with Gregory Peck.

"Aye son! I'll be waiting there for him for his up-vote alright!"

What whale downvote crisis? The crisis is only in your hunted mind :)

Every post I've posted today @snowflake has been downvoted by a whale bot troll?? The same for @baah too.

Why is berniesanders downvoting you? He is not part of the experiment...

It's not @berniesanders - he's my MVP (Most Valuable Player) - it's other whales with large egos! ("Hi Bernie if your reading this! I love ya!")

berniesanders downvoted this post and some of your other posts..

Correct. Confusion now reigns! ... I'm sure all the newbies are impressed :(

The newbies are doing just fine as long as they don't go around spewing lies.

If you are so concerned about newbies - I'd suggest maybe following some of them or keeping your vote value high so it has an actual effect on the platform.

Some autocratic power control junkies are trying to stop all the autonomic "Voices" on Steemit, and they are even supported by a conservative crowd that has the "Stockholm Syndrome" - the victims are identified with their executioners - a symptom also seen the actual oligarchic society.
"The modern attention economy will run based on proof of work as Reputation of its intelligent producing agents." - charlie777pt
People making self- interested conspiracies in the name of others even if they are supported by them under false propaganda, is still an appropriation of self-ownership because it is based on blindness or voluntary servitude.
This fascistic characters see people as numbers or monetary value, and not as people under the false argument that they are saving the community so that the means justify their ends.

Welcome to the benevolent dictatorshop @charlie777pt - it does rear its ugly head from time to time! It does need solving fast!

How ironic @l0k1 has just appeared in this thread :)

Probably cause you keep tag spamming him.

P.S. This post is already under flag attack ... one dot against already within 6 minutes :(

Well, you invited people to irritate you earlier. 8-)

Ha ha! I was just waiting for you to appear in this post @ocrdu ... welcome my friend :)

I was working, straightened a wheelbarrow wheel to have a set for our movable duck coop, saw them on the property and today decided to fix them up, yesterday I spent a few hours sawzalling apart a boat to use the bottom for the roof of the coop, on top of installing myself a water hose connection for the front of the house, making a float switch for the pond pump that fills up our main water, and redid the filter for the house, been busy :D.

Like me, you needed the break. I've been working with @barrydutton, @andrarchy and @l0k1 to find a way out of this whale downvoting mess! Everyone says it can't be done ... until someone does it :) ONWARDS! .....

P.S. I've also been blogging about early American history to try to bore the whales to DEATH!! Nope! Not worked!

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