RE: WARLORD DOWNVOTES - The Number One Steemit KILLER
This is actually a really good post as you took the time to dig through that video and you found something that directly contradicts the Steem whitepaper. Take a look at pages 14 and 15 (of 32) https://steem.io/SteemWhitePaper.pdf
Downvoting is not meant to be "bad" and the fact that this explicitly stated in that interview is an issue on its own. If I catch Ned on the chat in the future I'll ask about that. Downvoting (same as upvoting) is meant to be an equalizer. With downvotes and upvotes the value of the post is meant to be determined at payout time. That stops the crabs in the bucket (see analogy in whitepaper) from escaping through plagiarism, abuse, or whatever other means.
Reputation is not part of the rewards mechanism and is mainly a behavior incentive. Everyone wants it but doesn't really need it. The person you found, Berniesanders, got that negative rep from just one flag from Dan for some comment he made. It didn't stop him from continuing on the platform.
I don't own Steemcleaners btw. It's a group project.
how does this fare for people who post political or controversial topics? how can you prove something is flagged for opinions, rather than a legitimate purpose? i came here to get away from that kind of censorship... but seriously, what happens when steemit gets much bigger and more nefarious types come in and flag people for opinions they dont like? there must be some kind of way to counter it? otherwise you get a very boring platform with bland opinions and kind of a borg mentality eventually.
With controversial topics the intent is that both sides will argue through voting. So let's say for example I make a post stating that vaccines are death and you disagree, you can do so with a downvote. At the same time, another reader who agrees will give an upvote. The result is meant to reach an equilibrium in regards to the evaluation of content. Because of the new prevalence of high-stake accounts only selling their upvotes and the existence of other high-stake accounts downvoting, the system doesn't always work as intended. There are also users who take pride in "helping" users who were downvoted in a systemic manner unrelated to the content itself.
While I'm responding here I can address what people think of as "censorship". Censorship is impossible on the STEEM blockchain as all content is permanent. What flags/downvotes do is artificially hide it on frontends. However, and this is the main reason I'm here myself as a user, all content can still be retrieved. It can't be altered or permanently deleted if it's inconvenient for some group. It's always there. The frontends are open source and anyone can make one that shows this content in any way they want irrespective of what sort of votes it received.
i wish there was a way to delete content if the writer wanted to delete it... thats kind of a flaw, imho.
but im glad to be here, ill keep swimming. upstream. :)
I agree, it is kind of a flaw, especially learning how steemit works, doing searches and following older guidance, before things must have changed, which led to a lot of mistakes for me. Like when I first got hit by @adm, I decided to start the power down process, only to find posts saying it takes 2 years... Man, did that add to the emotions... Then I found it in the FAQs to now be 13 weeks. Thanks for your input, @miss-j
Yeah, that's what ive been finding difficult too, searching for the different tips and tools and post discussions, the information changes.
As for deletion.. what if someone posts here for a few years, then say, wants a job or something and they no longer want their posts and comments up for the public to see?
This will be a gigantic hindrance for mass adoption. Same with crypto.. I don't like that the coins that track everything you do. There should always be a way for privacy going fowards. We at least have privacy coins somewhat, but if there ever is a competitor that allows deletion and takes away opinion flagging, steemit will lose a large following.
And you said it exactly right, it sounds like social engineering, like aldous huxley talked about. A group think mentality, and the financial rewards to go with it, or to punish those who dont. Its a psychological brainwashing.
I totally agree. It poses maybe even more problems than the "Warlord downvote mentality", because that effects everyone in one way or another.
Either it is bad, or people may stop caring. If I was your potential employer, if I was objective enough, I might ask you if you are still the same person as you were when you said this one thing or did that one thing years ago on Facebook or even Steemit for example.
Do you really want to go back and delete things later on? For me, I do not even have time to do that. And Steemit may create a new flaw, a new hole, by allowing things to be removed later on. And nothing on Facebook is ever removed. Nothing on the Internet is ever destroyed as there are things online that steal and store data of what happens online. There are websites that archive deleted YouTube videos for example. There are all sorts of things going on that most people are ignorant of.
yeah , but what happens when all the people who ruined facebook twitter and you tube decide they want to be a bunch of whales over here... what does that help steemit, except to become the replacement for facebook in name only?
I just read a great post from aggroed about how people should not get into flagging wars, even if you think it a good cause, because the biggest whale wins and unintended consequences. this is a big deal in my mind, because you are saying we should get involved in flag wars and other uses say dont, or you will get squashed.
https://steemit.com/flagging/@aggroed/steem-tips-aggroed-s-rules-to-flag-wars-first-rule-don-t-get-into-flag-wars
It just feels like a disaster waiting to happen is all. I appreciate your comment though! :)
BTW, great video there of Rep. Billy Long putting Mark Zuckerberg in the hot seat over Fb political censorship... :)
Thanks for adding that, @miss-j. It's good to see others talking about this too. Maybe we are collectively whipping up enough steem in the hornet's nest to see some sort of positive change here. Who knows... :)
I do understand what you mean with "censorship", @guiltyparties, in the sense of it can never be deleted or completely removed from steemit, but censorship can also be considered "suppression" in the form of putting down, holding back, limiting and removing visibility too. It's like censoring someone's column from the normal front pages to the back pages where they get less visibility too.
and self censorship, the worst kind since it isnt something written and said and then hidden, or suppressed, its the orwellian effect where nothing will be said or written at all that may offend due to fear of getting flagged. thats a borg state. everyone will be the same and no one will want to willingly give up their money or rep.
well, at least there are forks. thats a good thing. to fork, or not to fork... that is the question.
Find like-minds, build communities. For example, there is the #SteemChurch community. There is the #ColorChallenge community. There is the #InformationWar community. Different Steemit communities think different and grow together as they upvote each other. Once in a while, whales can downvote you but not consistently. Stick together with a bunch of friends and grow together on Steemit over the course of many years and brace yourself for the storms. In the past ten months, I've been flagged a few times but I rode through those storms, recovered my reputation points & became stronger each time.
This really is true... I have so much stuff I have been playing with posting here and have held back because of the very point you make, as well as maybe even more so the way that until one really gets a following here they really don't get much active visibility for anyone else to ever see to begin with. The thought goes, "why waste the time, if no one hardly ever sees it, comments or upvotes it". There were many of my first posts here that I tweeted and shared on Fb that got more likes there than here. I wonder how many of the 90 or 95% of those who have signed up on steemit left or at least don't do much anymore because of that.
Clearly, I struggled some with that more when I made the last 3 posts, but for me the driving factor was more along the lines of making some sort of social impact for positive change in the community, as well as the tech in this last one.
I'm still toying with the idea of how you can invest into SP (Steem Power) on steemit, but to get all you put in out, the power down process takes a minimum of 13 weeks. If you make any more in the mean time and want to power that out too, you have to cancel and restart the power down process again and again, pushing the time to who knows. Plus, the fact is in the current system, you will never be allowed to get out at least 5 steem, because they say it will make the system unstable. That's a big one too.
The self-censorship is the real problem.
The last sentence is interesting.
Here here... I'll second that.