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RE: Important Changes to Steemit.com and Wallet
Hopefully, you realize you just locked a lot of people out of their wallets who will have no idea and no help from the UI to figure out which keys to use and whether or not they have the correct keys logged somewhere.
The first to be impacted will be stakeholders and investors who rely on wallet transactions to run their businesses.
It's an inconvenience to most of us. For some it will be overwhelming.
The way the change was implemented on the social side makes it easy to download a PDF containing all your private keys with a description of what each one does. It was implemented directly on the social site so that users which have their master password saved in the browser don't have to dig in their browser/OS settings to retrieve it. It's difficult to get users to adopt safe practices around key handling; the goal is that the downloadable PDF provides a safe way to backup all the keys and make it more straightforward to use the lowest-security key on the social site as well as the wallet. There are big tradeoffs between security and convenience and we are open to feedback on any ways to bridge the gap. Thank you for your feedback.
The security was fine for 3 years.
So, it wasn't about security, it was about the ads which is fine as long as you aren't disingenuous about it.
Really what could have been handled better was the preparations.
A notice of when it was going to drop and help on the UI's of both screens would have helped a lot. Many users aren't on discord and don't read many of the updates posted since they are written in tech talk and don't speak to exactly the audience that you needed to reach.
Anyway, what is done is done it's about Damage control now. Par for the course.
Nah, it really wasn't. There was a massive (relative to the size of the site at least) hack three years ago specifically because of keys being the browser. The mechanism was changed a bit and might be a little better but the fundamental vulnerability remains. It is good that Steemit is being pro-active on this instead of waiting for another incident.
You do realize the accounts that were negatively impacted are mainstream users who are using the Internet exactly the way they use pretty much every site they go to.
Most of them have no idea what key they saved and why they have 4 of them.
In addition... you anal security freaks. They have very small accounts and don't yet have to be concerned. Just as my knowledge grew, so did my understanding of how and why I should protect my account.
If you webstie requires a half an hour training course to log in you might be failing. :)
For one site to decide to sacrifice user experience without the slightest thought on impact shows why crypto in general is not ready for mainstream and how Steem is moving away from being mainstream friendly and away from being an onboarding or gateway platform.
The timing and the fact I had ads 2 seconds after they dropped the code is a pretty clear indicator of why they choose to do this now.
This is what I was trying to say, thanks for saying it so much better. I didn't see any notice of it beforehand - people pointed out that it was mentioned, but it was mentioned in a post titled something about a "condenser split," which is techno babble to me so I didn't click on it, because Steemit doesn't translate their tech-update posts for the non-techies. The post wasn't pinned, like some other unimportant posts were, and it didn't even show up in that update sidebar for me. The post about updates to wallet mentioned in the title was posted after the fact, and pinned.
Luckily I've learned enough that I know what to do about keys and keep them all written down and the like, but immediately after this rolled out, the Steemit FB group I'm in had several people asking how the heck to get in their wallets. Extrapolate our small group to the larger user base who maybe don't have a helper group to go ask, and I'm sure there are still people who are confused.
I don't begrudge them making the change, I just really wish Stinc would hire someone who's sole job would be to communicate things to the community, making sure pertinent things were pinned, warnings went out well in advance, how-tos and guides were available, and techno babble got translated. I'm not a techie but am in that middle ground where I can go searching for resources and usually grasp it - lots of people hit a wall and say, "what do I do now??"
It sounds like you make sense and understand that minnows such as me need to be backed up on there opinions and I thank you for it. You not only apply opposition to you advisary you supply understanding to us needing the knowledge.
Thanks again & Rock On
I’m one of those who still haven’t got a handle on the whole key thing.
What a cluster pluck I had. Fortunately, the nice folks who run this place let me start over. This time I took photos and copied and pasted the damn keys all over.
So now, if I want to log in on another machine,...... I don’t even bother trying. It never seems to work. But that’s okay. I’m taking a Lion’s Mane supplement these days so I expect to be smarter any time now.
I said the first time I joined Steemit that I wasn’t here to make money. It’s the whole freedom and no censorship thing that appeals to me.
So, basically I agree with you.
Yeah... I hear you.
These guys have forgotten what it is like to not KNOW all of this.
Often knowledgable people don't know what others don't know or understand as perfectly shown here. It isn't malicious just obtuse.
Yes, you are all right. Cryptos comes from the mind of crazy math people like Vitalik Buterin or security nerds that thinks that everyone on earth knows how to deal with security online.
At the same time, if you ride a car you need to learn how to ride and the norms. I think everyone needs to give a little, Steem should improve the way they explain how to do things over here, making things more intuitive like Facebook, Google, Youtube and other mainstream social networks do to have more people onboard. But we need to help people to understand better of this new tech works.
lastpass.com -use it, sync it with your devices - there is also web access!
Make sure you put everything in it! The chrome extension and mobile apps do a good job saving data automatically, but always make sure. Take the time out to create a manual entry if you have to.
Save everything that gives you access or identity verification for something - even if people tell you not to store the info online - a lost wallet seed is just as good to me as one that got hacked (Lastpass is very secure anyways)
I've been using it 4 years now, before Lastpass I used to recycle passwords etc.. a terrible habit to have!
Lastpass has saved my butt when I had to restore a wallet using it's seed after going 6 months without internet access, all my coins were there safe!!
Lastpass has paid for itself numerous times over the years, but did I mention all the great functionality is absolutely free?
Lions mane is great !
所以？
And this is why a few weeks aback I decided Steemit isn't for me & I haven't been back since until today.
Instead of me making an effort, I will only come on here when I have something written up on another site & just copy it over to here.
After I tried to get over 200 people leaving FB to come here & join & not ONE of them did, I realized Steemit doesn't really care at all, & this is a site purely for the geeks, NOT for regular lay people.
A shame.
I'm trying to make an effort on MeWe, but they are no longer responding to my e-mails & I think all the spammers went over there since I got almost 100 fake profiles trying to add me as a friend within 3 days.
It's true we do not handle mainstream users well.
Really Steem is a good fit for self=starters and independent problems solvers. I am not sure we will ever get good at onboarding those who need some help.
As someone who has been trying to onboard alot of people and getting very little traction because the barriers to entry I can only say, you hit the nail on the head... And the community can't be the one to fix this!
We can't fix it! we can try to help, but that's about it.
It's not that simple. Why somebody is going to move to another place if you are confortable were you are?
Well, things are going to get complicated in the mainstream world before the exodus begins.
Corporations are going to fail over and over and that is going to push cryptos like this one to the mainstream world.
Yes but there’s also the idea that with cryptocurrency, you are meant to become your own bank. In that sense, Steemit has always been a huge learning curve for mainstream users. I have no clue about the reward, I have to take Steemit INC’s word for it but the risk is very real.
Master password needs to be phased out for several reasons, one of which is that it derives to the owner key (which is meant to be entirely offline) yet many users continue to use it for logging in to Steemit.com, as well as a number of other apps. So this change had to happen at any rate. We did step up our communication for the rollout (many posts over the last few months) but it's evident it was not enough. While we don't anticipate any changes as big as this one anytime soon, we will keep all the feedback in mind as we proceed. The benefits of limiting the social site to posting key only are numerous. There are many other features we've had to postpone or reject due to security concerns. This change allows us to move faster, safely, and add more features that users expect from a social network.
Hi @roadscape,
Not a single Steemian is criticizing this security feature, which is of course a necessary one.
"We did step up our communication for the rollout (many posts over the last few months) but it's evident it was not enough."
We agree that you stepped up your communication, but if you would have added "If the users don't take necessary steps seriously, one fine morning they will be pushed to hardships" sort of warning like message, at least 50% of them would have surely given ears to your communication and this word of mouth would have reached some more Steemians and the like.
"This change allows us to move faster, safely, and add more features that users expect from a social network."
Yes, yes...we agree to it completely. There is no second thought about it.
Thanks for the comment @marvyinnovation. We will make future announcements about changes of this magnitude easy to understand and hard to miss.
I never saw ONE mention about this change & I was on here a few weeks ago.
Why not 2-FA
And a password that could be remembered would be so much easier
i like that idea too.
I don't know that 2FA would be any friendlier for the people that can't handle keys; what if they lost or broke their phone - they'd be just as lost about how to get back in.
2FA+password could be a solution in the future but it's much more complex from an engineering standpoint. Initially on Steemit.com you could simply set your own password, but we had to disable this. Many users had guessable passwords like
passwordand got compromised. Then we raised the requirement to 16 characters; users were not happy, and it still wasn't enough. E.g.passwordpassword. Generally speaking, if you can remember your private key (password), then it's not secure.The concept of cryptographic salt was invented specifically for this reason.
Store a bcrypt of the user's master password, and a long cryptographic salt. When they provide the bcrypt of their password, give the client app their salt and let it derive their keys. Rate limit the number of tries to the bcrypt-based-salt-providing-service.
Then users can use normal passwords. You could even protect the salt server with 2FA.
(Of course, after login, the user can see all of their derived keys in full without being dependent upon the server to provide the salt, thereby letting them avoid vendor lock-in.)
Yes - I love this idea honestly.
I have a few ideas that would expand upon this concept a bit also.
Interesting, never heard about this concept before.
Normal people needs user-friendly approach.
In my honest opinion, if users are stupid enough to make easily guessable passwords, then they should get compromised. Teach people a damn lesson to do things for themselves and be smart.
Hi @amethystmidnight,
Please don't get emotional. Actually, they aren't doing it wantonly and their ignorance being the reason for this mistake of theirs.
They are thinking about one side of the coin and are not thinking about the other side. A little eye-opener sort of blog post detailing the risks involved in having easy passwords, which is more of like a soldier guarding the palace gates without any armor.
After this strict implementation of this strict feature, they should be knowing now the mistake they did in the past.....FOR SURE!
When users come here they have no idea about the financial part, and how it works differently than their bank site. Which likely has more money and still allows them to save a password.
It doesn't make you sound smart to shame the end users with less knowledge, it just makes you sound out of touch with who we are onboarding.
Absolutely @whatsup.
If you are you are afraid of account compremise then use local softwere to control your main account and use a different account for posting. Delegate your steemit power to that account. Use 50/50 reward, and send the profit back to your main account.So then steem power in your posting account is just a bonus.
Hi @coinmaster4you,
Excellent idea.
But I don't understand one thing.
Can you please enlighten me about the words "....use local software...."?
Amen to that I had no Problem typing in a 50 digit password. It was secure and sometimes you have to have patience for extra security.
I still can't distinguish the differences between a master password and the owner key. Too many keys, but it does make me feel safer to have all these options.
Hi @tntdabomb,
MASTER PWD: The master password is the actual password that you get after Signing up for the Steemit account and that is given by Steemit.
OWNER KEY: The owner key is the master key for the account and is required to change the other keys. This key has additional permissions to recover your account or change your other keys. It's the most important key and should be securely stored offline.
ONE MORE THING: Please watch the Steem basics video posted above between the 1:21 and 2:21 minutes duration, you will clearly understand what is what.
Hope this info gives you clarity.
Take a look at the 3rd party tracking cookies your picking up from all these ads, might make you reconsider that statement.
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I agree you guys did step up your communication.
Hi R, Are you reachable via discord or email @roadscape? I'd really appreciate a minute of your time.
I would suggest a upcoming release note on the right side of steemit... Weeks to a- month before any major rollout with a big days till change clock..... Something like this....
It should use a graphic and stick out like a sore thumb... so everyone sees it. and it should have a link embedded so that they can follow up with details.... But tell it in simple to understand terms. NO TECH TALK......
I've been a systems designer for 30 years and the present systems out there have terrible UX, and a lack of erogonmetrics. With just an extra hour taken on big issues to take care of the ergonometrics. You would have avoided 90% of your complaints.
PS: as I have said before I live in New York and am willing to donate some pro-bono time to the staff.
Another money grab. Now we are in another limbo contest. How low can we go?
I agree I just got here and it was a struggle for the first month then I started enjoying it for the second month. Now it is back to struggling again in the third, I am to fat to go any lower on the limbo stick so lets just "KISS" that's encryption, (Keep It Simple Steemians) thanks @hawgwild out.
Hi @whatsup,
"A notice of when it was going to drop and help on the UI's of both screens would have helped a lot. Many users aren't on discord and don't read many of the updates posted......"
Of course, you are right. Before doing any such important thing like this, the users must be well informed as to what they intend to do in how much time, This would have avoided a lot of confusion and yes, now we need to go to the next phase i.e., Damage control......
@steembitblog, @whatsup... if it's good for the ads - maybe it could be nice to let participate the authors of the revenues. In addition it would be another reason to post on steem for many actors who post somewhere else now 😊 And if an 'Apple-like' model would be applied with 70% for the authors and 30% 'for the platform' it would be the biggest advertising for the steem platform itself. @peekbit
No, mobile users have no way to download this PDF
This option should show up on mobile; if not, that is a bug. What's your device/browser? Thanks!
I have a Samnsung Note 9 and am using Google Chrome.
ofcourse you can do that with a note 9 @maxblaschke ...
Just so you know I am unable to access my wallet so that means I cannot get to the Permissions to get my posting key, what the hell can I do now? I am only able to access Busy.org I find this to be highly disrespectful!
Hi @masaitv,
Please watch the Steem basics video posted above between the 1:21 and 2:21 minutes duration. Here you will be taught to go to the exact location of the keys and the names of the keys and their special uses.
IF YOU GO THERE, YOU WILL FIND THE LIST OF POSTING KEY, ACTIVE KEY, OWNER KEY AND MEMO KEY.
TO PERFORM THE WALLET-RELATED OPERATIONS, YOU NEED TO USE THE "ACTIVE KEY," WHICH IS ALLOTTED FOR YOUR ACCOUNT.
Hope this clarifies your doubt.
I believe I told you that I am unable to access the Permissions feature in order to get to those keys, so your response makes no sense to me, I get to the wallet but cannot sign in to get the keys. No, your All caps reply does not clarify my doubt either, face it, you guys screwed up and now there is no way to fix it, I don't even think you know how to fix this problem that you have created for so many people! Do you even care?
@masaitv have you tried visiting: https://steemitwallet.com/@masaitv/permissions
I am so pissed right now, you guys have completely fucked up my account, NONE of this back and forth wrong information is working, you might as well close this shyt down!
Please pardon me @masaitv for posting a wrong comment without understanding your query properly.
As far as I can tell, this video only works if you can open your wallet, which I can't.
It is all so easy for some to say, and some don't even know what a PDF is, it would seem that we are getting a river created between us and it washed the bridge out already.
How do I download this PDF?
If you try to login into steemit.com with your master password, the option to download a PDF will be shown on the warning dialog.
I cannot get that pdf link to work.
The link shows, but it doesn't do anything? Or you don't see the link at all?
I see something that looks like this, but it doesn't do anything.
Right click - copy link destination - paste it on another tab doesnt't work?
no
I'm still trying to download the PDF. I can find no workable link to the download.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usability_testing
Well that seems a little overboard.
Do you need any help?
I can walk you through it if you are on discord. My name and avatar are the same there.
Or here is a link to our chat channel. I'd be happy to help if you need it. :)
!dramatoken
I figured it out. But as someone who does Information Architecture for a living, it's clear to me that Steemit inc HAS NEVER HEARD OF USABILITY TESTING, and therefore it's a complete wonder how they will stay in business. This total fuck up may very well seal the deal for many that have been thinking of jumping this ship.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usability_testing
They stay in business because they have NO Customers who they're accountable to.
@frankbacon, that's not necessarily true. Their need to put up adverts shows money isn't coming in as fast as it's going out. And the price of steem directly impacts their bottom line. The price of steem goes up when there are a lot of new sign-ups. With crazy nonsense changes to the platform like this they're practically guaranteeing people will not sign up. Who wants to jump through this many hoops, undergo this learning curve, only to find out their account is pretty worthless unless they -buy- steem?
Posted using Partiko Android
We can create know customers to weigh other options of account ability. As for me - give me liberty or give me deft. P.H.
BTW - steem would work better to divorce the reward system from the currency and have a model where content is purchased using the currency and the rewards are not linked to the whales or other fish opinions. They whole concept degrades the media provider from the very start.
Usability testing
Usability testing is a technique used in user-centered interaction design to evaluate a product by testing it on users. This can be seen as an irreplaceable usability practice, since it gives direct input on how real users use the system. This is in contrast with usability inspection methods where experts use different methods to evaluate a user interface without involving users.
Usability testing focuses on measuring a human-made product's capacity to meet its intended purpose.
What's more, I just checked and BUSY.ORG DOES NOT HAVE THIS PROBLEM. I will be using them from now on. Steemit Inc can die a rotten stinking death. Which it will.
I was just going to suggest busy.org
I usually don't use Steemit except for the wallet. :) The interface is inferior in many ways to Busy.
And what's with the drama token? Did you seriously try to make a dime from my all caps comment? Wasn't it you that just said "For some it will be overwhelming"? Yup, just checked. It was.
What the fuck are drama token?
They are good for your acting career and sex drive,
Yes, it is overwhelming. I agree. At least you were able to get in. :)
Sorry for the expletives earlier.
Here's your
DRAMA. Don't spend it all in one place!To view or trade
DRAMAgo to steem-engine.com.Ahah welcome to Steemit 2.0, or should I say, have a good time on another website.
Doesn't everyone need their master password? I was told that we could be in serious trouble if we lose that.
Yes you need to keep the master.
I think it could be debated which is more dangerous from a security point of view. Switching entering passwords ... vs. saving them. In addition obviously based on the comments, some are not that happy with the pdf option either.
I'm not sure if I like a website telling me what compromises I should make for security.
Also people should not be encouraged to log in with their Master.
Hi @whatsup I just need clarification on the new wallet, they want you to apparently set a password in the wallet. Do you know if setting a wallet password will require resetting all my keys, or will it automatically reset all my keys? I don't want to go down this path!
There is no one talking on Discord or anywhere on Steem about this!!
Until I really know what this changes I will just keep using Steempeak and Busy, wallets apparently still work just fine with Steemconnect.
Newbies will be so lost, they really need to explain this better!!
I have not checked for changes, but the last time they announced the condenser split, I tried out the new wallet site and it worked just fine using my old active key, so I expect you should NOT need to change or set any new passwords. Just try logging in to the wallet site with your usual active key and see what happens.
I give it a try, and post back......
I just tried it and It works just fine, thanks!
I claim rewards daily, and I try to limit my Active key to needed uses....... I don't really like signing in with my active everyday for rewards......
I might just stick with Busy and Steempeak for that!
SUPER. Glad you got it sorted out.
!dramatoken
Well .. at least there's a recurring pop-up with a link ... ;)
I agree this comes all of a sudden. Could have been to national communicated before.
I couldn't have put this better myself. I definitely feel like I'm playing catch up at the best of times and I couldn't have picked a better word than 'overwhelming'.
I hope this becomes easier to comprehend as time passes, and for the amount of money I have on this site (and the amount I earn) I look at all of these passwords I have to remember and think "Is it really worth it...?"
I bet a lot of people will consider that.
The only thing I would say, is the STEEM economy is better at providing delayed gratification than instant gratification.
Meaning as time goes on both knowledge and income go up, which reduces the effort vs. reward factor.
I respectfully disagree, @whatsup. I've been using this site since early 2017 and, although I produce a lot of articles into which I put a LOT of effort, I earn - on almost all of them - $.00-.05. At this point, Steemit is just a place to put my articles until I find somewhere better because, frankly, I see some of the CRAP being upvoted and it disgusts me.
I respectfully understand what you mean.
We are not good at curating quality content.
And social media was never about quality for me.
There are many who feel differently, but obviously they can't curate it and what value does it hold to whom?
Sorry, you feel disgusted.
I hope that is the case. I always feel like I am getting somewhere, then someone else explains to me how things work and confuses the hell out of me again.
We'll see what happens, but at the moment I have very little motivation to keep using this site in regards to effort vs rewards (Not just money; interaction, friendships, possible traffic towards my books, etc...) Don't get me wrong I have spent a LARGE amount of time on this platform, but at the moment I am learning to read Cyrillic as well as writing another book, and it is getting to the stage where I'm getting bored of focusing my energy into this site hoping something will shift, and when people move the goalposts and make it more confusing it makes me wonder why I am trying to learn all of this Steemit stuff...
Hi, you mentioned learning to read CYRILLIC. Is this the language in this old prayer book?
Yep, that's the one. It's actually surprisingly easy to pick up. For example there are 6 letters that are the same (a,e, k, m, o and t) and the rest is just practice.
It does depend on the language though; some letters appear or disappear depending on the country, but in general the sounds remain the same
Don't you know "Last Pass" Password Manager? It takes out a lot of the work
No I've never heard of that. Is it like an extra plug in? I don't trust a lot of these extra apps and plug ins because all it takes is one dodgy link and all your money in your account gets wiped out...
It's a website and Browser Addon which stores all your passwords saved in a cloud. Personal I trust them more than the google cloud which can also Sync Passwords between devices.
This includes me. Where do I go to to find the PDF with my passwords on?
Yes I second that not only overwhelming if there is 1 typo anywhere we could lose our tokens or crypto's. I think it is dicey for newer steemian.
It is overwhelming for me. I've been trying to manually enter it and get invalid password every time. It's exhausting. So i'm not good at this. That's true. what to do? I'm reading all these comments and just lost.
How can I help?
You can go to busy.org or if you have your master login to the wallet with it and get them all at once.
Prior to the change how did you login? What browser do you use?
Let's start with what worked for you.
Feel free to hit me up on discord if you don't want to put this on the blockchain
Don't be embarrassed, if this had happened earlier, I would have been overwhelmed also.
Firefox. I must have saved the logins there on firefox a long time ago and then never thought about again. Never had any problem but knew somehow i was not really understanding what was really happening.
There's an ad for dating site under my comment! What???
Jepp, they have Google ads now too.
In firefox
Under options on the menu... (upper right corner)
I'm not talking down to you.. just don't know where we are starting
search password..
click saved logins
search steemit.com
click show passwords
Try that one on the wallet.
if it works...you can login to wallet and find your posting key to use on steemit.
If it doesn't work you are going to have to find that picture you took and search for your Master Key.
No you're not talking down to me at all. :) I'm really grateful for your help.
I will try that with firefox now. I do have the photo with the passwords. I tried earlier to type them in and couldn't do it... they are super long and complicated so i might have messed up every time. I'm going to look at firefox now. :)
I found it in firefox. It's not one of the four from the wallet. It says generated password on the photo i took when i started here. I have photos of 5 passweords. It's the one in firefox. Does this make sense to you? Is there a way to get it or one of the other 4 in the wallet login without typing it out
I think you might have to type it. I'm not sure what a generated password is and if it doesn't match any of your photos, I'm concerned.
A suggestion I have is to write it first breaking it into 4 digits or so at a time. (easier to keep track) Also, it is case sensitve.
I've never been to busy.org , Should i do that now? I'm embarrassed to be so clueless. I have photos off my computer that i took a long time ago of my passwords. Ohhhh man... i tried earlier to get in to my wallet here and couldn't do it.
my reply is above, somehow I missed.
We can get you through this! :)
I'm really lost in the comments now. Thank you for trying to help!
I am fairly certain it is case sensitive. I have had the same issue in the past with trying to manually type it all out.
@truthforce
It took a while but i kept at it and got in!
I agree. Even the sticky they have at the side doesn't mention the wallet, just says the social condenser is live. I discovered it on accident clicking on their blog to look at the older announcement on wallets after clicking on mine to collect rewards and having to log in again, then being locked out of Steemit and having to log in again to get back on the site. They might want to change the title to this post to indicate it addresses the wallet and we will be needing to log in several times now due to different sites.
We've clarified this, thanks!
Thank you for the quick action. Knowing that you are interacting with and listening to us has done a lot to improve the morale here and is greatly appreciated.
totally agree - it should be noticed before.
But the link at the side leads to this very blog post ... and the title has been changed after publishing.