Don't "Vote for Witnesses", your vote does not matter.

in #steem8 years ago (edited)


What does it mean to be a witness?


Witnesses are members of the community, voted in by other members of the community. They require a powerful machine, are must be active to monitor their machine. These witnesses perform a similar duty to the steem network, similar to how bitcoin miners secure the bitcoin blockchain.

Witnesses in the Top 19 are compensated handsomely for their duties in steem power, at approximately 1370 Steem Power per day. Witnesses in the 20 - 50 slots, only get around 30-60 steem power per day: a sharp drop from the Top 19.

So what do the Top 19 witnesses do with their powered down funding, amounting to about 550 USD per day? (Assuming they could power it down all at once -- realistically it is less than that, but still high.)

Ask them.


Recent events in witness changes.


Recently, we saw a large change in the structure of the witness list. Two high powered steemians voted and unvoted. So what's the story?

Val-a started voting in witnesses. Who is val? Val is an employee of Steemit, Inc, and has a considerable amount of stake in the system. You can check this list to see how much stake a user has for witnesses they vote on.

This appears to have caused some waves in the list, as @steemed went on an un-voting rampage on many of the users who val-a placed on the witness list.

Previously, most steemit employees did not vote. Even @ned did not vote. However, @dan did. Actually, so did @dantheman. Both accounts correspond to high powered whales, enough to shape the witness list however he chooses. But it's not enough for me to tell you this, data speaks louder than words.


Let's look at some data.


Here's the current list as of this morning, followed by two new lists:

  • Re-organizing the top 50 by "Community Vote".
    • The number of users, disregarding user stake, that are voting for them as a witness.
  • Re-organizing the top 50 by "No Employee Votes".

By community vote

Arguably, this vote type is sybil attack-able, and I would not want to see this as the way to determine the Top 50, so take this data with a grain of salt. However, as far as I am aware, most users with multiple accounts use voting proxies to use their stake in voting with their multiple accounts. So the list is a good approximation of community support for a user.

The biggest movers and shakers on this list are as follows:

What does this data imply? There are some users that are in the Top list that do not have community support, but are in the list merely by association with the whales. There are also some users with high community support, but are not on the Top list.

No employee votes

This is an interesting one: What if the employees were not allowed to vote on witnesses, and leave the decision of the community members witnessing the blockchain, up to the community?

The biggest movers and shakers on this list are as follows:


So what would this mean for the structure of the Top 19 witnesses?


Lets look at how the Top 19 would change.

And one final experiment: Whom do the employees not touch?

Suppose we took out every user in the Top 50 that is voted on by any employee. This shows a group of steemians whom the devs dare not touch:

@steemed @anyx @cyrano.witness @nextgencrypto @bue @silversteem @crypto777 @royaltiffany @steem-id @pumpkin @blackwidow @proctologic

Funny enough, we wouldn't even have a full 19 witnesses out of the Top 50. This means that more or less, the entire witness list is shaped and controlled, hand selected by Steemit, Inc.


But what if the employees are benevolent?


"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter."
Winston Churchill

There is no official reason why steemit employees cannot vote. There is only the community perception on whether or not they should vote.

Steemit has shown that they are not opposed to taking over the witness list, and hard forking. They did this after the "hack", using the @steemit account to vote @steemit1, @steemit2, etc. into the witness list, and pushing a hard fork to recover stolen accounts (@dan's account had the keys taken, too).

How does the community feel about this? Do you want the control of your account in the hands of Steemit, Inc? They have enough steem power with the steemit account, let alone all the employee accounts, to simply take over the witness list whenever they choose, and push a hard fork that takes all YOUR earned SBD and Steem. But they don't, because they are benevolent. For now.

So who do the Steemit employees vote for? Let's look at the bitshares witness list, whom also get rewarded handsomely for running a witness node.

From: http://cryptofresh.com/witnesses

Any names ring a bell?


Show me the source.


Fortunately, the blockchain is transparent, so it is really quite simple.

Here's an example of the code used to generate this data. First, grab a list from https://steemdb.com/api/topwitnesses name it witnesses.json, and run something like this in python:

import json
import operator

with open('witnesses.json') as data_file:    
    data = json.load(data_file)

output = {}

for witness, voters in data.items():
  witness_sum = 0.0;
  for voter in voters:
    weight = voter['weight']
    if (voter['name'] not in ['dan', 'dantheman', 'val-a', 'ned']):
      witness_sum += weight
  output[witness] = witness_sum

sorted_output = sorted(iter(output.items()), key=operator.itemgetter(1), reverse=True)

for u, v in sorted_output:
  print(u)

We Need Transparency.


Sort:  

Upvoted for interesting and novel analysis. Not sure if I agree with all the conclusions, but that's not really the point.

A possible correction and a question:

Suppose we took out every user in the Top 19

Should this be top 50?

So what do the Top 19 witnesses do with their powered down funding, ammounting to about 550 USD per day, at current prices?

I don't understand this statement. I've been a top 19 witness almost since the start and my power down funding this week was "3849.954 STEEM" or about $230 per day

I agree. While the data is interesting, I agree not all assumptions are 100%. At it's core though, yes, steemit can say who gets into the top 19 and who doesn't. The steemit account alone has enough vests to single-handedly make 19 brand new accounts the top 19. I think that is the primary concern here.

I reblogged this post because I felt like it had an interesting analysis; I do not, however, believe you shouldn't vote. Voting makes a big difference.

Oh wow how did I forget that. Excellent point. I would like to see some discussion on current witnesses declining voting rights.

Thank-you, and fixed & clarified.

Of Course I support Steemit Inc. the creators of steemit.com to take charge and lead this platform as Mark Zuckerberg and his team leads Facebook.

I support those who have the best interest in mind for the platform, and @ned @dan @dantheman definitely has shown curragh and real leadership when it has been needed, and I trust them to keep doing so in the future.

I want to vote for those witnesses who have the best interest in mind for Steemits great content creators and bloggers.

Why some forces are so eager to get rid of them is for me stupidity. Like every other Software-company there needs to be real leadership and they have all shown themselves worthy of being voted for.

The analogy with the parents and the baby from Daniel is superb !!!
Hear from 49:20 and after!

This is opposite to the decentralized ideology we strive for

There is transparency and you've shown it in your post. The blockchain is open. Not sure if we can force transparency over individual actions (e.g. voting, downvoting etc. as everyone has their opinion and they have the right to have it).

Still, there is one thing that comes to mind. Right now the power on Steem(it) is unbalanced. This has been talked about over and over. This lack of balance, unfortunately, renders the community choices useless (in terms of curation, witness voting etc.). A witness can have all the support of the community (hundreds of minnow and dolphin votes) yet one whale can ditch them out of the top 19 which decide the blockchain's road-map. Our faith basically.
Until a balance is achieved, I can only propose a rather drastic measure: No witness votes from accounts over a certain Vested amount.
It's the same that's been proposed on the #whalesdayoff initiative: Hand over the power to the community. Truly.

I also think that official Steemit Inc. personnel should stay out the witness voting business in order to keep the promise the company has made: leave the blockchain decentralized. Is this our community or not?
What if val-a gets fired one day ? Crazy I know, but impossible? I think not. He can get us in a real pickle, and many Steemians will suffer in the end.

I'm not debating the validity of Steemit Inc.'s actions so far. I'm actually one that believes appropriate actions have been taken for the good health and functionality of Steem and Steemit. Progress is seen often and we've come a long way since April. Yet, we still have a long way to go...

Re-reading the Whitepaper I see the following which might be an answer to this post and even my comment:

This process (OP: consensus) is designed to provide the best reliability while ensuring that everyone has the potential to participate in block production regardless of whether they are popular enough to get voted to the top. People have three options to overcome censorship by the top 19 elected witnesses: patiently wait in line with everyone else not in the top 19, purchase enough computational power to solve a proof of work faster than others, or purchase more SP to improve voting power. Generally speaking, applying censorship is a good way for elected witnesses to lose their job and therefore, it is unlikely to be a real problem on the Steem network.

The only issue I see with the logic above is that the ones owning enough computational power have earned it way easier than anyone can earn it now.

That whole passage frankly makes little sense to me, but it dosn't refer to distribution, decentralization or power-balance issues, but to getting a transaction (for example a post) into a block at all, if the top 19 don't want to include it

I hope that since I took the passage out of the context, it didn't change its message. It's from the WhitePaper, page 22, 4th paragraph. Chapter is entitled Consensus in Steemit.

consensus: a general agreement about something : an idea or opinion that is shared by all the people in a group

It's true that the chapter talks about how the blockchain is mined (blocks are produced) but it touches the top 19 witness part and how to become part of the top team and break their censorship.

What I'm saying is that atm, if I want to have the same voting weight like you for example I'd need 1 million bucks, which I doubt it's what you put in when you initially invested. I'm not blaming you because of that. I congratulate you for steeming before me etc. and you've earned your wallet fair and square, but the difference is simply too big between you and me and I think and until that gap closes (in at least 1 year), I know it's much to ask, but can you all whales stop voting for witnesses? Because when you do that, in a way, you're blinding 99% of the community.
That was kind of my statement...let's have the blockchain only allow witness voting from the lower 80% of the vest holders for the top 20 witnesses (I adapted the sentence to sound more metaphoric).

Again, by censorship what is meant is refusing to include a transaction in a block.

Ok, nuance understanding but that doesn't change the statement that right now, 99% of the community doesn't get to decide who can refuse a transaction.

Roadscape is not an employe!?

I just love the blockchain and the transparency it brings. Now the interpretation of the data can be different depending on the stakeholder. The risk for Steemit is only if it is considered or seen as being in control of and gamed by a small elite that as I have seen with authoritarian countries and organization that it will drive away capital and investors.

It is already seen as a small group of elite! The question of those of us hanging on, is will there be a change now that the Beta has been going on and the obvious problems in that are being exposed.

I am not saying there was any ill - intent - Perhaps just unintended consequences of too much power, and too many things that give everyone the incentive to please the elite, vote for the elite, etc.

It's a problem, it must be addressed.

I'm curious as to who you might actually be... interesting points made nonetheless.

Wow man you got a good eye. Nice catch on that. Interesting.

For me a simple minnow who like to post and vote I do nt see how it matter who a witness is.

I have voted for witnesses based on their post that I liked. I liked their personality.

But this has nothing to do with being a witness. What they post and who they are has no effect on my enjoyment.

Witness are the back of the platform creating the blockchains I can't understand and dont care too.

I did find this interesting. You got a vote and follower. But why does this matter to us little guys?

I assume if the steemit employees are voting in or out certain people it might have to do with their computing power and how many blocks they make per day which i think is important for the community.

But Like I said I don't really know why they do that nor care to understand the witnessing side of steemit.

^^

Witnesses do two things: 1) sign blocks which keep the blockchain going, 2) decide whether to accept upgrades developed by Steemit. Unofficially, witnesses also: 3) operate seed nodes so nodes can connect to to the network and 4) help promote and develop the ecosystem and platform . 1) and 3) require the ability to manage, operate and maintain high availability and eventually high-capacity IT infrastructure. 4) requires good judgment in deciding how to focus efforts to achieve the best outcomes for the community. 2) requires good judgment along with either understanding of blockchain design and implementation (which encompasses not only the technology but also the economics surrounding it) and/or good judgment in relying on the advice of others if personally lacking in this expertise.

Please do not follow the advice of this post, even though I find some aspects of its analysis to be interesting and significant. Do vote.

great post

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