As Steem grows, so does the presence of the trolls
This is what I've been noticing lately. This happened to me yesterday. I had 5 different people respond to me on one thread or another that this had, or was happening to them. This is what's going to end up ruining Steem for a lot of people, if no solution is found.
Yesterday morning, I made a simple post about my bitconnect experience, just as @craig-grant has done, just as @trevonjb has done, and many others. I wasn't expecting a ton of upvotes or comments...just from those who were or are thinking of investing in bitconnect who I had told that I'd keep them informed.
By about 5 o clock yesterday, I had something like 12 upvotes and a bunch of comments. By 530, I had an additional 5 downvotes which caused me to lose all rewards for that post...oh and I received such a nice comment from @steemcleaners informing me that just because I didn't view my post as a scam or spam...others might. Oh really Steemcleaners, a.k.a Mom?! I've heard from others as well about having issues with Steemcleaners being on a power trip lately. Just because someone reports someone @steemcleaners, maybe you should actually read the post before deciding if you think it's spam or not...you know, since your opinion seems to matter so much, which you obviously get off on. Seems a bit ironic that I went all day without getting flagged, then all of a sudden within n half hour (I actually just counted) I received 8 downvotes?! Really?! How interesting. Seems like there's people on Steem that take advantage of it, and if they're powerful enough in Steempower, they can basically control you....that pretty much will ruin steem for me and a lot of other people. I looked into these people who downvoted me...some of them literally have pages that Steem says are unknown. Some haven't posted on Steem ever. None of them are really active, so how does this happen that all of them at once have the ability. I was reading an article done last year by long time user @stellabelle, who was having this same issue. She discussed how muting doesn't really fight this problem, and others confirmed there's just nothing you can do since it's on the blockchain.
How is there not some type of balance of powers? How is it that my article on bitconnect was flagged multiple times, yet porn is allowed on here? Seems like @steemcleaners is on a bit of a power trip. Why does no one monitor this guy? I read articles from at least 10 others who recently quit Steemit because of crap like this, and if this continues, it ruins Steemit for me, and I'll be pulling my 3200 steempower out, and there will be many more behind me.
Apologies for any spelling errors but I'm writing this quick on my phone. Here's a list of all the people who flagged or downvoted my post within a half hour of each other. Check them out for yourselves, and read my previous post. There's nothing wrong with it! It's just information!
@adm
@steemcleaners
@fubar-bdhr
@zathras
@zathras (zathras and zathras, really?! Idiots)
@fubar165
@kutmargo
@blacklist-a (oooooo sounds so scary tough guy)
@kevingwong @papa-pepper @jerrybanfield @dan @ned @sweetsssj am I missing something something? Is there really nothing that can be done about this problem? It's only going to worse and more prevalent as Steemit grows, and I'm pretty sure this is going to drive away many users. I for one would rather have my money in a coin whee this BS doesn't happen, where I can post information about my experience with any altcoin and anything I want...but if it's just part if Steemit, then I want no part if it.
Oh look, I found a picture of Steemcleaners and his army of trolls...
I really hate flagger abuse. Flags should not even affect reward IMO. I spam the blockchain everyday with my bot. I run the bot under a different username. My bot's posts have never been flagged. The spam is about a service that uses Steem dollars.
To eliminate spam equally means to make the "steemit" tag empty and the "steem" one only about the blockchain steem. Aren't all of these super popular posts about steem related products also "spam"? Things would be a lot more quiet aroind here indeed without these posts.
I can't agree more about there being spam everywhere on steemit. I see people plug Genesis mining, ICO's and other crypto's all over the place. But certain posts are just downvoted/flagged
If it's spam you should do something about it don't you think? At least leave a comment saying "hey this is spam because it's been posted again by you or someone else here, or this is tag spam because this has nothing to do with these tags, if you continue I will curate it as spam which means your content is getting flagged, in turn curating your account ever so little".
@dan can plug a completely different platform (EOS) and I don't see @steemcleaners flagging him or @craig-grant or @trevonjb or the other dolphins and whales . It looks more like economic discrimination to me. Flag the poor because we are poor and can't fight back. Funny thing is, I used @craig-grant's code to sign up for bitconnect.
I completely agree.... there is something going on with the algorithms that just doesn't "smell right"....
And it seems, by the logic of 'he whom will argue about anything', we little fish are now expected to not only put our necks on the chopping block (commenting views and opinions on posts of users who can easily just "smash" our Reputation and "not censor" our content with just a few of their powerful flags) yet also burn up what precious little voting power we have flagging their spam content. Sure, that seems real fair and legit.
smh
Is this exactly what the creators intended, to have the weak eventually volunteer to give up any value or power they may have accrued battling for fairness and equality in a war with the Whales that they just can't win? To use their "influence" to flag abusers rather than to promote others? Sure seems like it to me.
You need to watch the video that I just posted here. It is pretty clear that Craig Grant & TrevonJB, as well as their BitConnect website are now being exposed as a complete ponzi scheme and they are frauds.
https://steemit.com/steemcleaners/@bi5h0p/craig-grant-and-trevonjb-exposed-for-scamming
Furthermore, stop using the "introduceyourself" tag with your posts. I ran into the same kind of resistance myself a couple of weeks ago. That tag is protected and enforced by people on steem who have much more Steem Power than either of us have - so they make the "rules." I suggest you either follow their rules or invest about $50 K into buying more Steem Power so that you can downvote their posts and tell them what you want them to stop doing to you.
Otherwise, just stop using the tag. That's the generally accepted "rule" by the majority of Steemians and you will be fighting a losing battle.
So I read your post, and thought to myself, that's quiet an abuse seeing @ zathras and @ zatrhas. Obviously the same person.
Then, I thought, I wonder if @ fubar165 and @ fubar-bdhr are also. Then interesting enough here on Beerbot's post and look who upvoted him.
If you look at zathras or fubar you'll see similar voting. Also they all resteem steem cleaner.
I guess one person, one vote doesn't apply here in the steemit world. So you're post obviously was flagged by one person who counts as 5
@thebitcoinparty I see you made a similar post.
Yes, it's called Influence, you gain more by investing into the community, the incentive creates value, the more you have invested into the community the more likely you are to want the community to succeed and in turn your investment, that's why the more you invest the more influence you have the more your vote counts. If you're interested you can ask around, because one vote and one account opens up the system to sibyl attacks, so that the mob of one person's account would rule them all, instead vests are split (SteamPower) based on how much you have in your account.
Autoflagging and what we refer to here as flag wars, are unavoidable realities of people curating content, an expression of their freedom of speech. This platform is designed to be censorship proof, meaning that even if the fronted could (hypothetically) censor the content, the content on the blockchain where the front end gets it's data from, cannot be altered or censored/removed, and the account cannot be "moderated" or otherwise controlled by someone other than the owner themselves, bar lost passwords/ stolen accounts.
What one account has differs from another, and even the base account funded through SteemIt.com and not busy.org, or another front end, where you pay to fund the account, has changed and will continue to change based on the required steem that the account needs before it can curate/post and the value of steem at the time, "one person who counts as 5" is not the point, if you believe that it's not fair, regardless of this being proven/demonstrated for over a year now, you are free to create and distribute your own coin, and base it all off the blockchain we have here, Steem is open source after all. Sitting on steem and crying about how steem isn't fair because one person one vote, is like being invited to a party, there's prizes and cool people everywhere, and because these people made fun of you, crying about these people making fun of you is actually going to do something about anything, those offenders won't listen, and the people at the party are expected to defend you.
Either you get over what other people express themselves like on steem, or you will be the few in the corner whining and supporting each other with "censorship, censorship everywhere", followed by an anthem of "I am a victim".
@queeneleanor
they're all accounts belonging to steemcleaners
only accounts they say, can promote
I was pretty upset yesterday to see that the people in power or higher than us use it to their benefit . They don't really care what we post or anything , they just care for themselves , selfish , yes. We can post the same content and not receive anything , I've seen it
Yeah life's not fair, some people are going to use their investment one way and others will use it how they see fit, it ultimately is their money. If everyone was selfish this place would suck, but you have no hope of reaching people if you don't wish to start on some common ground, by calling them selfish you have removed any conversation to be had with such people, since you've sat a fat sign on your door saying "no selfish people allowed".
Complaining about stuff that you have no power over or that is none of your business, like what other people should do with their influence, will never solve anything or seek to. If you think that you deserve the same response of someone else and are complaining that you didn't receive the same response, it's because people aren't robots, and one might have a larger more engaged audience than another, one might have a certain quality that the other doesn't, the factors that are obvious aside there's who knows how many other reasons why such things happen, but the point is that you either cry about how the world responded to you and pin your self on what others think of your content, or you take ownership over your content and don't build your expectations on other people's work.
Yeah, welcome to the ugly side of steem where money equals power
I agree
flaggin is WRONG
How can you tell if you've been downvoted or flagged? I see my posts lose value, but I thought that happened as the post "aged" or whatever.
On posts, if you click on votes, it will show upvotes with a "+" and downvotes with a "-", then the person's name who did the voting
Oh okay. Thank you.
I actually made a post about the different ways you can tell if your post has been flagged, and if so, who flagged you. You are welcome to check it out on my page, don't want to throw a link into someone elses post out of respect for them.
Great :)
There is also good in this. Some people (not you) are just evil and will post lies to destroy your reputation. There must be a form of policing to protect the innocent from 'fiends' surely? I would say though that there should be a way of redress. If you feel aggrieved you should have a channel to go down to voice your discontent. It never pays in the long run to publish discontent or names on the block chain. X
If they don't start none, won't be none. Their flags and comments hurt the people that they flag and they know this. It is arbitrary and these people don't work for steemit.inc. So it is ok to be a bully if you have a lot of power? But it is nokay to fight back and namedrop because it might hurt their feelings? There is no good in Nazi behavior.
That is why a system of redress is required. Complaining on line is no good, we require a pathway to an arbiter who can legitimately look into the issue. Flagging by us would make the post visible to this arbiter who can make the 'official' decision. Better than causing grievances unnecessarily. Just my thoughts, as I said I have been on the receiving end of nasty people who published lies about me. The post did not get general coverage because it was flagged up by several of the people you now criticize. There are two sides to every story. I am sorry if this offends it is not meant to, I just want to make you aware of the other side to the story. X
What would that look like, who would be the arbiter? Who would have admin privilege on a platform inherently against privileges such as those because the sure fire way to undermine the whole platform and community. What do you propose?
OMG I don't know. I am sorry I got drawn into this, I only wanted to give a sense of the other side. I come from a country with the rule of law, so generally, respect for authority is usual. I expect authority to play fair, as I expect the powers that be will play fair. I am not used to the concept of free for all. I am now withdrawing from this debate. I wish everyone, peace, goodwill and happiness. X
Why are you resulting to exasperation and wish to drop your initial proposal, I only asked what you propose. This has nothing to do with rule of law or countries, we were discussing creating arbiter positions which you suggested, I thought you could tell us what you propose, and wouldn't be some kind of assault or demand.
Honestly, I am not getting exasperated. I have had a few harsh replies to my comments. I only wanted to put a suggestion forward. I have no interest in creating aggression. I love this platform and get great delight from the interaction from like minded people. I just pointed out the other side of flagging. I had a malicious assault on myself and it was thanks to several of the people who had been named, that this malicious post was stopped from going out fully. There is an absolute need for someone to 'police' the site for awful content. I just thought there should be someone who the aggrieved can go to to redress their issue.
This someone has got to have the power to take an action and also over turn an action where necessary. He/she therefore must be part of Steemit, a paid employee perhaps. My thoughts on rule of law were stated to just say, we all have to trust in this. The arbiter must be trusted to do the job, that is all I meant. I am lucky; generally, I have confidence in the role of government and policing, because my life experiences have shown me that overall, I can trust my government/police to follow rules. (always exceptions of course, that is why I say generally)! I do ramble. Hope this answers you. Kind Regards. X
That would be nice, but the problem is that even if you could get the competent people, and enough of them, you couldn't get the funding for it, and then you would have to deal with issues of corruption or otherwise bias.
The people that police the site for awful content are the people that pollute the site with awful content, and everyone else. The community polices itself.
You, among others, believe that terms like "malicious assault" give your story more credibility and importance, but it doesn't, you were flagged, by the community, and more precisely, your content, the content you authored was flagged by the community. There was no boogieman on the internet, who assaulted you, as much as you like to equate it to such, it was simply people curating content, or better yet, people speaking their minds.
Like the troll that now tags along everywhere I go, you are affected by words on a screen that strangers type up. I am not saying that those things don't affect people, or they shouldn't, I am simply drawing attention to that fact, that is usually equated to what you eat I don't shit. What they think of you, what they comment, is not what you must think or what is true, it's simply what they think of you. I am not saying that don't care about what people say or think about you at all, because I think everything catering for considerable should be considered so that excludes considering insulting remarks, or blatant lies, but not a reasoned insult pertaining to what we were discussing.
No system can ever be perfect. There has to be an element of trust that the position will not be abused. I realise there is a very fine line between restrictions and freedom. How could an Arbiter restrict though? He/she would be there only to be approached when someone feels unfairly treated. The flagging system (according to some) does not work and is being abused. Would it not be better for those who feel unfairly treated to have someone to go to rather than be angry and frustrated, live on the block chain. As to the schematics of it; there are better business brains out there than I, I just made a gentle suggestion. Sorry. X
If you read the whitepaper it talks about abuse, and it says that as long as abuse is not rampant it's ok. I have been in plenty of flag wars, I have seen a lot of flag wars, and it's not rampant and for it to be rampant nearly everyone here would have to flag each other. The only way for you to change the flagging system is by abusing it so much that it becomes rampant and a hardfork is required to change the system. The whitepaper is under the hamburger menu next to your name, it's fairly outdated but the general principles and rules haven't changed.
Thanks, I haven't read it but I have read this. https://steemit.com/steemcleaners/@steemcleaners/announcing-steemcleaners-the-steemit-abuse-fighting-team
Found it while I was looking for an answer to my immediate problem....it wont let me post on steem! Last night I could not even reply to posts. The system kept telling me: bandwidth limit exceeded. Please wait to transact or power up STEEM. It just shows you how little I know! Appreciate the effort and dialogue. X
You have a good point. There should be an arbiter. Unfortunately there isn't one so we are left with the devices we have available. I do understand the need for some entity to guard against personal attacks and plagairism, however we don't need a nanny to protect us from advertising. I have discernment, I do not see the need for an anti-spam censorship brigade. I am an anarchist. This is too much like a centralized government telling people what is ok for them to see or not see i.e fascism, hence the reference to Nazis. I wish @jeffberwick , the @dollarvigilante could see this, he is big enough to put a suggestion in that would be read. And maybe heeded.
I agree there should be some mechanism to fight plagiarism I just don't see a solution better than the current system. One option is tocentralize things and put some actual steemit employed admins on to enforce some set of rules everyone has to follow.
If you don't want that centralization of power then you leave it up to the people to police themselves. When you do that people are free to use their voting power to upvote or downvote whatever they see fit, regardless of reason.
I totally agree with you. We need the powerful to take the issue forward. I am sorry I got involved because a white middle class 'wrinkly' with no experience really of the www other than using it as a fantastic research tool and publisher of my 'ramblings'; I only thought an Arbiter would help those who feel aggrieved and enable them to get redress from somewhere, without having to resort to anger. I understand their frustrations. I also understand the other side too. There is a need for someone to stop malicious content. I hope you understand I am not involved, just an outsider who tried to put another point of view forward. I agree nor disagree with anything. I have suggested this to both of the above. X
I understand and I also see that you have some of the yummiest recipes on steemit. I followed you.
You are so kind. I do feel bad about getting involved with the discussion on 'trolls'. I cannot keep my big mouth shut!!! X
Words don't hurt, curating content as crap doesn't hurt. People should be able to speak their minds in spite of your sensibilities that they shouldn't criticize or disagree with you.
It has nothing to do with that, if you read the whitepaper you would realize that. People are free to speak their minds, flagging content is curating, they can freely express their opinions of content, negative or positive.
Words on screens aren't a bully, again you are very sensitive to words on screen because you don't think it's fair that people should express their mind like they do with words on screen, people aren't attacking you, or your content, they are voting with their voting power on how many rewards, if any this content gets, but because you think they are I suggest you get off the internet as people will always use words to speak their minds and very likely they will disagree with your or even call you names because of your rationale or attack your character, but you must remember that there is a inherent and definite difference between attacking your character and attacking your person, the later involving physical harm, the former involving insulting you.