My thoughts on the JustinSun/Ned AMA
Now that i taken some time and had some sleep i wanted to give my thoughts on the AMA and the Witness panel that came afterwards.
First of all i have to say that this AMA was the most ill-prepared and most disrespectful garbage i have ever seen.
Neither of them prepared anything, they basically answered 2-3 questions with 1 sentence and mostly talked about history of Tron and @ned while the whole community was on fire waiting to see what their future holds.
It was disrespectful to the community and it clearly shown that @justinsunsteemit doesnt know much about #steem outside the bare bones basics nor care about the community.
It was clear that the only goal of the AMA was to reduce tensions over the token Swap. Nothing else.
If he went forward with the token swap and we forked, that would be a PR disaster for him and thats the only thing he cares about.
The Steem community SAID NO to Justin! Justin spent millions to acquire a logo and a website domain.
news sites would write.
But now, he brought down the tensions from a boiling point to a manageable simmer.
For anyone that watched the stream it was pretty obvious what he did and why. His careful choice of words about not doing a token swap carefully followed by the phrase:
FOR NOW.
Lets not fool ourselves. STEEM will never be the same nor will the status quo persist. Justin shown his hand and Poloniex was there ready few minutes after the initial purchase announcement with the announcement of the token swap.
It is more then clear that this has been thought about and planed.
What saddened me most was listening to the witness panel afterwards and seeing the lack of conviction and resolution.
We all know where the destination is. The TRON blockchain and a TRC10 token.
And here we have witnesses, folks that will be rendered obsolete in the end talking about how it isnt that bad... How its actually a good thing.
Short term it very well might be...but in the long run STEEM, everything it stood for, everything it is right now will be dead.
Justin bought himself time by going back on the token swap "for now" which in turn apparently killed any and all drive witnesses had. They welcomed him now with open arms not even considering (well i think aggroed mentioned it) about how susceptible we are to a hostile takeover which is something that needs immediate attention.
END GAME:
Two options:
- Fork STEEMIT.INC out
- Bend over and take it in the tailpipe
Neither which improves our position. Maybe we can threaten him with a fork, maybe we can even try and see how our total "Anti SWAP" stake compares with the steemit.inc stake but in the end he just wont care.
If we fork we lose exchanges. If you lose exchanges, you lose investors and Steem is just magic, internet Mickey Mouse money and nothing else.
Justin will easily convince CZ and Binance to trade his TRC10 STEEM shitcoin as "the real STEEM". If binance goes, all the exchanges go.
I know its not fair but ive been telling you for a long time that crypto is wholly corrupt and money+friendships trump no matter how many thousands Steemians moan and complain.
A CHANCE:
There is only 1 thing we can do since inevitably Justin will try to do the swap (or something similar) and the witnesses losing their position fork away and try to do their own thing. (Because why not)
Witnesses and investors that care about STEEM need to reach out to the exchanges and talk to them RIGHT NOW. Look for guarantees that once STEEM forks that they will KEEP THE ORIGINAL LISTING.
The community, witnesses and investors need to cultivate a relationship with exchanges and stop relying solely on Steemit.inc.
Unfortunately i dont think that will happen since Justin right now will start pumping money into the development which will lead to complacency from witnesses seeing that "stuff is happening".
Thats the trap that will be set. But lets see if in the witness ranks there are a few with a spine.
The second option... Simply bend over and take it up the tailpipe.
This is the path of less resistance which some of the witnesses have already taken.
You simply go with it. Steem becomes a subTRON token on a centralized blockchain under the complete control of Justin Sun, never excelling beyond Justins vision or reaching its potential.
But that does guarantee development, maybe a better price, more stability.
So why not...
It wouldnt be the first time people sold out their ideals for a bag of doubloons.
Another thing i would like to see is if there are ways to change witness voting system, peacefully, silently, preferably right now(be proactive not reactive).
Not sure how to do it so i leave that to the tech savy ones...
Conclusion:
As it stands not Steem is fucked. We need to find a way to "un-fuck" it. Its all on witnesses, investors and influential community members. If they decide to sit on their ass and stupidly proclaim (like one witness basically did last night, i wont name her.):
The great Overlord Sun will save us with his marketing and will promote Steem and give us money and take nothing from us!
If that will be the case, well then honestly, STEEM doesnt deserve to survive.
Peace......
Alright, I gotta be honest with you man, I remember your pink avatar from like last year or maybe even the year before calling out about how Steem was dead & you were leaving for good.
With that in mind, this explosive outrage seems... Put on? Or like just your normal character type of thing?
You do raise some good points regarding reaching out to exchanges, however. In the very least, it'd be good to establish a line of contact with a few of them in case anything goes down in the future we can have options.
Wait, lol, what?
How is accepting better development, better price, and getting some stability "selling out our ideals"? I'm pretty sure most people fucking ideals are exactly those lol
I don't think Steem is "fucked" right now. I don't like the Chinese government connection that is now somewhat involved, but I also feel retarded saying that cause I truly have no idea how much the Chinese government actually fucking cares about Tron.
Maybe that'll all be a problem in the future, but for now we have time to be rational and carefully consider next steps. I'd say, since the fork option is always available, we proceed as normal. See what happens. Go ahead, keep him on a tight leash and at the first sign of shitty developments we yank the fucker outta here.
But, from what I've understand, I believe Justin wants to ( brace yourself ) make money from his investment. The best way to achieve that for the time being is to let Steem continue thriving on its own.
Posted via Steemleo
FTFY
Think that's what we all want but it would be helpful if he was less ambiguous in expressing that.
I've recently given Tron and it's documentation a review and it serves a completely different niche. Anybody that understands both at a technical level should see how Steem as we know it functioning as it does would not work the way Tron's token's are designed.
I've looked into dApp chain, side chain and the various flavors of token and unless Tron undergoes a serious overhaul... It is technically infeasible.
Steem is very complex system. How can you take a complex system and put it into something more simple. It' s like trying to port over an Nintendo 64 video game to the Nintendo Entertainment System (NES). The entire premise is flawed.
Thus I have no confidence to build anything further on Steem unless we can have assurance that our chain won't removed or otherwise disrupted.
I'd be happy to work with Justin to make Steem better so we can both ROI but tbh he's really gone off on the wrong foot to that end. The ball is in his court now.
What assurance can he give developers to continue work on the Steem blockchain? Anything???
I understand the hesitation & totally agree that the livestream was useless in terms of clearing up confusion.
Technically speaking, a Steem-like clone could somewhat function under Tron, with a makeshift proof-of-brain smart contract, but it'd be much easier to allow Steem to dominate its specialty, while having Tron focus on its own.
lol, you speak my language
Somewhat key word. It would be some MacGuyvered shit from hell. It's a waste of time when you have a working product already.
You know it! 😉
So, for like what you described up there. It's like when they try to port a high end console game to a shitty handheld.
Cant think of an example off the top of my head but you know what I mean.
Doom to SNES?
My concern as well... If he already had the token swap ready (or even in works) then what we would have seen is a dumbed down version of Steem. What i think would have happened is that everything would simply revolve around Steemit and upvoting.
That's why it doesn't make sense for the "total & destructive" merger theory. It just wouldn't be good.
Convince him that... because he was ready to do it.
He was ready before having literally any engagement with the community. Like I said, I'm guessing the concept of a token swap was to hype up the Tron bois on his Twitter.
Then he met the Steem lads... and we bullied him out of it lol (┛ಠДಠ)┛彡┻━┻
Yeah you confused me with someone. I never had a rage quit post. Nothing even resembling one though i might have said that STEEM was dying and things needed to change. That at the time when the layoffs were happening and literally 0 development was being done.
Because the chain dies.. Read the part about absolute control.. Steem becomes a subTRON token, it becomes NOTSTEEM and basically loses independence to its overlords.
Witnesses are removed and decisions move to superrepresentatives and under absolute control of Justin Sun.
Didnt bring that up. I dont really care.
No. His hand is shown. His goal is out in the open. His interests are clearly not aligned with ours. The path is set and we need to find a way to move in the other direction.
He wants to move Steem to TRON. That is his ultimate goal which will happen if we sit on our ass.
There is absolutely no doubt about it.
Its as sure as the sun rising in the morning.
If we do nothing that is what happens.
But Steem "moving to Tron" can literally mean a million different things. Does it get completely dismantled bit by bit & absorbed? That's one possibility.
Or, it could act as a side chain, or a complementary sister network, or as the social community place for Tron peeps to shit post about games, or Justin realizes there will never be "one blockchain to rule them all" so he's diversifying his assets, or... You get the point.
You're literally suggesting that we fork out someone who is rich. That's what DPoS allows. Rich people to come & buy a shit ton of stock. We've all known this since the beginning. Not only that, you're also suggesting we kick out the first guy that is able to bring much need resources & development to our chain.
What is this fantasy scenario you have where he "destroys" Steem? Please tell me one that both actually destroys this place and makes him money. You skipped over that pretty major part in my comment: Justin obviously wants to make money. Making Steem good, and by connection his stake in the platform rise, would make him money.
Exactly... It can be a bunch of different things. What it will end up being depends on our actions. We know what Justin wants it to be. We know his goal. Absorb and dissolve the current steem chain and replace it with a TRC10 token or whatever..
Its now on us to try and get the best deal from this as we can. If we do nothing i told you above hat happens in the end.
I still dont think we can do much but that shouldnt lead to us capitulating.
Hes collecting trophies. Steem is one. Tron pumped like 150 million after the announcement.
He openly said he is destroying Steem and doing a token swap. Read the Medium announcement.
I mean how clearer does he have to be for you to see his intentions?
lol what
LOL WHAT
ok, ok, hold on, let's stop for a moment
I think I'm comfortable dropping all the other points and focusing on this as the crux of the conversation. We don't know his goal. Technically, we can argue that his goal is to make money, which is exactly what I've been saying, but in that case I'd change the wording to "We don't know his plan".
And at the time being, I'm pretty sure he doesn't know his plan either.
The token swap was confirmed as a no go as of now. It was probably only mentioned in the first announcement to get his Tron crowd excited. Why would he spend massive amounts of fucking money just to buy a fucking domain name when he could have just copied the fucking methodology of this place and replicated it on his own -- we aren't fucking BitTorrent, we don't have a reputation, it's clear to the most smooth brain of retards that the Steem crowd wouldn't be happy to be forced into a new chain so obviously he didn't buy us to merge the fucking people cause that doesn't work.
Holy shit... I'm heated lol
Honestly though if we just think about it we can see that nothing is happening now, and we don't know what will happen. Justin wants to keep his money safe, right? So he's going to move carefully. Come on man, haven't you ever danced before? It'll be just like that :^)
!giphy slow+dance
giphy is supported by witness untersatz!
Medium post.
Poloniex announcement.
Now you have all info.
I already had all the info. But do you? Honest question: You saw the livestream, right? He literally said "We do not have plans for a token swap at this moment."
When you own a chain, and you announce to your bag holders your buying another one, the first thing that comes to mind is token-swaps & air-drops. They are the peanut butter jelly of the crypto world.
But, upon realizing what a shit show it was causing, he backed off. You don't back off of something if you have hard set plans. We keep the pressure on him saying: "Unless you offer a 1-to-1 Steem-like experience over on Tron, then fuck off".
Look how fast the community prepared to fork him to smithereens. It'd be unwise to lose his shiny new investment like that.
Im showing you what his intention was, what he WANTS TO HAPPEN. Only the backlash stopped him temporarily.
I explained in the post exactly what youre referring to. I wont repeat it here.
He doesnt lose anything if he waits for the devs to remake STEEM on TRON. Thats why hes waiting. If we forked him now, he would have a major problem. Later on he will count on it and be ready.
At least 2 points of agreement we have here.
Also: I think if the witness want to be trusted they should act... trustworthy
Sure. The question is what do we do moving forward. I do not accept that there is nothing we can do.
Im almost positive that the fork will happen unless we somehow take control away from Steemit.inc so id prepare for that scenario and reach out to exchanges.
If indeed we manage to sway them into keeping the current chain, which will be super hard, then we lose the least.
That is the direction which we should take. If Steem is kept on exchanges then Justin loses the most.
There will be exchanges that will trade the new steem fork, dont worry about it... #steemcash or #steemclassic , whichever the community vote for. FORK IT ASAP.
STEEM IS DEAD. PERIOD.
Lets see what happens first.. If we mobilize or not.
I feel pretty much the same and that's what I wrote in my last post. It's crystal clear: Steem will never be the same, there will be a token swap and that has been said long before the AMA, and even if the witnesses will somehow fork and leave Steemit out, our Steem will be worthless because this piece of shit @justinsunsteemit, will try his best to take our token out of any exchange. You have to be a fool to expect anything good from this guy. Case closed. I'm amazed to see that very few think the way you do these days.
Most people are reactive rather then proactive...
I mean, if you were Justin and wanted to increase the value of TRON would you care what a bunch of steemians have to say if you can port Steemit and promise dapps bags of cash.
I wouldnt care... I think he just needs time to make it a more smooth transition.
I mean he gave, what, maybe 10-15 million USD for Steemits stake and he wants to port a 100 million USD blockchain to TRON. Consider the ROI in that. He already 10x his investment.
There is a 3rd option as well : Push Sun to maintain both and add more glamor to steem to gain from his investment. It will be a Win win for everyone. Can we do that ? If we can convince this theory that, steem has lot of potential and by maintaining both separately will get him more, then everyone will gain. Thoughts ?
but he also has (we speculate) 70mil of steem. and steem was at 5$ (think tron never was), and survived the drop to 0.12$. so move it to 5$ and you have 350mil$ only in coin, not to mention you lead a main developing company there. so it is about ego, is there a need to everything be tron.
Thank you for this great thoughts !
I totally agree with you on this ill-prepared AMA. I’d don’t like Ned from the start but this is an INSULT to the STEEM community !
I believe also Justin has no actual idea of what STEEM or “Steemy” as he call it is !
I hope witnesses should clearly defend Steemians interests and not let this happen as the way it was announced ! Could you link me the Witness discord in a reply please ?
Resteemed and Voted.
Best to you,
@vlemon
I fear they might get caught up in the marketing and development promise. I mean eventually they are the ones that lose the most.
Its the Palnet discord server where it was held.
I’m by no means a fan of Justin I do own some Tron for ages now though but not much! His a hype man and not much else! I do think this an important lesson that steem is not as decentralized as we think and we need to push foreward to keep breaking it apart over time
As a business it would make no sense for Justin to token swap or migrate to Tron if he wants the best ROI he has to keep it seperate and listen to the core team on how to improve it! Their was a resource and development blockage that he will unlock and his connections with exchanges and marketing can help
Let’s not forget Steem is not married to Tron tomorrow he can sell it off again if he wants!
What he wants is to diversify the portfolio for the Tron foundation not the Tron blockchain! The Tron foundation is a VC funded company looking for returns so as he meets his decided on user requirements and dapp running requirements regardless of chain will get him his next round of funding
I think the one thing you can rely on is a busienss mans self interest to make money which is why I’m positive on the continuation of steem It’s current form
i watch that live stream again while cutting it, with no screaming in the chat :) he said he invested because of the community. And while he talks about millions of users of tron this is a different thing. Could be a marketing stunt, for sure.
Now i feel it is all about ego, does he have the need to everything be tron, or will he be happy with "i was leading all this development" or he has the need to say "this is mine and i did this"
There is no new steem here, it was there all the time, and even no one was happy with Ned everyone kinda believed that he will not use it. Now we don't believe that it will not be used. I think we need few weeks before we burn the place down.
I can't even find out the basics like will everything I ever wrote here be deleted? I have no idea about Tron but isn't Justin in China? Are we moving the free speech platform to fucking China? This place has been leaderless so long with Ned and that chick Allie, or Ellie whatever who never does anything that a bunch of people jumped on the bandwagon when they saw an actual person buying stinc. It would be awesome to fork though and see Justin bought a shitty website address
I'm glad you had enough battery power to get these points across. The AMA should have been an AM1TAITUTR - Ask me one thing and I'll tell you the rest... Alas, the community here isn't gonna go without a fight. Steem Classic is a Classic.
We need to calm down a bit, an investor as Tron is not the worst thing for Steem, and I now dont think that Steem will be merged with Tron any time soon. Steem is quite a complex system with over 4 years of development. From a technical standpoint it would be very hard and risky to merge and more reasonable to keep Steem and build some bridges to Tron instead and add Tron support to the DApps and vice versa. This can be a win/win also for both chains. Even Voice does not run on EOS but on a separate chain.
Tell what would be easier and cost less:
Exactly, this was my point, option 1 is more efficient, cost less, and is less risky.
wrong answer.
Tron already have a development team that can work the same tokenomics steem have on the tron blokchain.
Researching and learning a new protocol would need way more effort and the redirection of manpower to work on another protocol, and test the fuck out of it to find bugs due to the interaction between blockchains (more money into development).
Building it up on Tron is way cheaper. They have the brand that is already known, so they just have to slap it on the new platform o the tron blockchain.
And since 95% of users here will move because the oportunity will look way better (brand recognition, more money for development, promissed airdrops, exchanges support) than staying of a chain run by a small community, Justin wins.
He get what he was looking for, that is a increase of tron users.