"Code Is Law (Only When I Want, Otherwise It's Abuse)" - The Shaming Syndicate Of Steemit - Our Own Brand of SJWs & Social Repression
Steemit has its own brand of social-justice warrior, and rest assured, their positions are just as illogical as their more well-known, real-world brethren who busy themselves agitating for anti-meritocratic hiring quotas and gender-or-ethnicity-based favoritism.
Like their real world counterparts, these Steemians obsessed with controlling the behavior of others always operate with the ironclad personal "feeling" that they are the final arbiter of all subjective disputes. The claim that they are "fighting against abuse" or "protecting the reward pool" grants them the same self-righteousness that the cultivators of identitity politics use to institute mob rule, and they use that cloak as a shield for their own endless violations of both the golden and silver rules. (Note that there are, indeed, many true and great reward-pool crusaders, as well.)
Got a question whether something is abuse? They know, and they'll force their view on you. Perhaps they'll code a flagging bot to follow you around and regulate your behavior if they do not like it. They have an opinion on everything, and it's never "I don't like it, but I don't want to regulate it forcibly." They don't believe in the free market's ability to resolve most disputes, and they are the primary proponents of "criminalizing" activity with no discernible victim, provided they do not like it.
Often, they make some excellent ethical points that I fully agree with, but refuse to look at real world implementation and thus create the exact same kind of offensive attempts at "regulation" that have brought us the endless Drug War in the United States (and wherever we've exported it to...sorry, actually sorry.) They tend to implement methods that cause more harm than doing nothing, and in particular, create toxic social and cultural atmospheres that drive out established users and prevent the addition of new ones.
They operate in a utopia that doesn't exist, where a suggestion being impossible to implement should not be a reason to ignore it. The idea that block-chain technology is an amoral construct and "code is law" is foreign to them. They are OK with scattershot, ineffective regulatory measures that create highly profitable black markets which funnel profits to the worst possible actor(s), creating a worse outcome than no regulation at all.
They are the types who insisted that the Ethereum DAO was "hacked", despite the entire point being that code was law and the code was executed properly. Today, people still incorrectly call this a "hack" when it should be called "genius," albeit unethical genius without a return of funds. Eventually, the DAO may prove to be Ethereum's Waterloo... or at least, it's Candia.
Rest assured, this is no defense of fraud, and in most cases if one tries, ethics are not too difficult to discern. For example, are you taking something that is not yours? Are you reaping reward without comparable effort?
However, the human willingness to set explicit rules that all "players" must adhere to "no matter what", then immediately break those rules as soon as a favored group or demographic would benefit, is both highly regular and hugely damaging. Look no further than the mess that is the US financial system, rife with croneyism and bailouts which socialize risk while privatizing gain, to see how the practice of selectively repealing the rule of law on a subjective basis "for the greater good" eventually destroys any system upon which it is allowed to fester.
Ultimately, the best enforcement a scattered social coalition of shaming can achieve is to render the most benign targets disadvantaged, leaving a larger pool of booty available for true abusers.
Here are some common characteristics that let you know you may be dealing with one of these people:
They have decided what is an acceptable reason to vote, and what is not. Conveniently, they are also the final arbiter of the subjective value of everything they observe. It's not important to them to consider if others have placed value on a piece of content for their own personal, subjective reasons. It's only their judgement that matters. They are not interested in hearing about off-chain reasons for votes, and they do not like the freedom to allocate stake as an owner sees fit unless they would have done it the same way. If you question them, they will cherry-pick data sets until they find what they need to "look" correct.
Despite explicit statements from @dan that people should be free to do anything with their vote, (including sell it,) and a strong anarchist undercurrent across the platform, there is frequent push-back against a number of inevitable services that, much like the trade of drugs, cannot ever be stopped.
They'll also shame you for self-voting, even on your own posts. This comes in a subtle and more insidious form from some top Steemians, whose vote often constitutes 1% or less of their own earnings and whom are guaranteed to Trend regardless. In other words, they have nothing to lose, while a minnow who needs $1 to hit "Hot" in an obscure tag has everything to lose. That won't stop them from posting about how they've gone "no self-vote," frequently for virtue-signalling points, subtly implying that you, too, would be a better person if you would only disadvantage your own chances of reaching Trending by removing your votes from your own posts. After all, who wants competition?
Notice the unsupported assumption that rewarding good content and encouraging creativity can not be done by purchasing one's own stake to promote one's work? No reason is provided for the arbitrary belief that one is unable to accurately assign value to one's own work. We tolerate politicians and private bankers literal access to a printing press, and the right to murder extrajudicially to (at least) the President, but we cannot conceive of a user accurately valuing their post for 13 cents?
I suspect @pennsif has not perused the blockchain, and seen the many $1000+, 6-word comments for doing effectively nothing that existed during Steemit's first year. Most stakes on Steem were not created by painstakingly providing "creativity and good content" funded by outside "donations".
However, arbitrarily holding one's self to limiting standards definitely provides huge advantages to established players...I wonder what cultural influence led to a willingness to tolerate unelected bankers creating trillions with no oversight, but 13 cents is too much responsibility and power for one, invested person to handle?
@Pennsif, I love you buddy, I hope you don't mind the wallet stalking. "It's for your own good, because I know best." (Aww, crap, that's my proverbial "opponent's" argument.)
They will shame you for promoting your work, unless you are literally burning money using the promotion function, or hitting the streets with a sandwich board. If you choose to purchase bot votes to get into Hot or Trending, they may shame you for it while ignoring your valid points that the Trending algorithm alone renders most of the platform unable to be seen until they have established a strong whale-autovote following.
One of my followers ( @theleapingkoala ) recently posted in frustration that she felt unable to compete on Steemit. I empathize with the complaint.
Until recently, I have written to a mostly-absent audience for what would amount to $3 an article without the support of those with real-life, hands-on experience with my Beautiful Mind-like genius. In other words, take off the two people I impressed greatly in real-life, and most of my posts would be paying me well under half the minimum wage. I can't sustain the quality of content or motivation to post, given it is a great deal of hard work and research, at those levels, and you can rest assured, if my experience in pitching Steem is any indication, that few millennials will be more willing to than I.
@Theleapingkoala is a phd who managed to escape fucking SAUDI ARABIA where her legal standing as a woman was roughly comparable to a male bullfrog. Does anyone even realize what a unicorn a user like this is compared to the average social media poster? If we can't even retain successful people, will 99% of Facebook and Reddit look at Steem long enough to form a thought more complex than "lulz"?
Technically, all posts may be committed to the block-chain, but in reality the difference between a post sitting on Trending and one sitting on your Blog at $0.07 payout is the difference between the New York Times and your 8-year-old's weekly 3rd grade newsletter. If your post or reputation is flagged negative, that newsletter becomes a flier for Chinese food relegated to a dumpster in the ass-end of Brooklyn.
Hell, even I am a bit worried that the content of this post might bring me attention I may later prefer to avoid, and I'm already the size of user most would be either fearing or ingratiating themselves to.
You've got employees of Steemit flagging new users for misunderstanding the tagging system. I know, irony right? By implying this is bad I'm trying to control how users vote. Truthfully, I don't want to control anything but encourage others to be more welcoming, even if that means them simply not wasting several seconds a day to flag fools making nothing on their mis-tagged posts.
Is not this task ultimately just as pointless as trying to ignore every spam email sender you get? The flow is endless and they simply use a new address of near-infinite permutations each time. All you are accomplishing is the feeling of self-righteousness as you add them to your spam filter while you permanently shame them off the platform.
It's hard enough to have any success on Steemit as is, and if the platform remains impossible for all but the well-above-average to acclimate to and achieve on, it will never become a relevant social media platform. I had to invest the better part of $100,000, have 20 years of writing experience, and be an obviously humble polymath to experience "success" that still does not qualify as more profitable than a below-average job.
What do you think your Halo-on-Xbox-playing-boyfriend's, or America's Next Top Model-watching-girlfriend's chances are?
TLDR: PHYSICIAN, HEAL THYSELF + MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS
If you have any additions or errata for this post, please let me know! I will see that they are voted to the top of the comments, and will make the appropriate edits (if possible).
We also have a Radio Station! (click me)
...and a 5000+ active user Discord Chat Server! (click me)
Special Thanks / Apologies To: @TheLeapingKoala, @Pennsif, @LauraBanfield
Sources: Wikipedia, Google, @ura-soul
Copyright: Cleverism.com, https://www.cartoonstock.com/cartoonview.asp?catref=ggm070816, Patheos
I'm not going into great detail about why I basically stopped putting great effort into the content I share here.
I'll only say that you have listed many of the reasons in your amazing article.
Great job here. You have basically covered most of the main reasons why a lot of valuable members have given up.
I hope that tons of people see this article for the wake up call that it is.
I would be eager to hear more if you would consider elaborating. (I'll also "pay for it" with votes ;))
upvote me dear.. becasue my reputation is very low
You need to stop begging. Start putting out quality posts and people will upvote you. It won't be much at first, but maybe you can inch your way there. The way you are going about begging right now is just going to get you downvoted even more.
you also begging by doing spam comment. don't put comment blindly first read article.. is you read full article and what are you commenting here.. please comparison the text your comment and original article
i not begging even i give promotions to the people for transferring them SBD and Steem.. can you help me for building in my reputation. you can check my blog.. i giving promotions.
Further requests will be flagged, see my other reply to you above.
I respect you and very much like this article. But your flagging comment strikes me as counter to the point of this article... even if this guy's begging is annoying.
I think telling a user on your post to stop begging is different that his point. If he went to the comments section of other peoples posts and did it then I think that would be different.
You obviously haven't looked at his profile. He has picked fights with loads of members and he does go to lots of posts and post the same exact comment, begging for votes and follows to "repair" his reputation.
Then, if somebody flags him (like I did), he goes BALLISTIC and will follow you around and flag every single post or comment you make. His tactics also include making rude and insulting comments, name calling, and referring to anyone that has flagged him as "scammers."
Yes! I fully agree with this! We represent a media agency with hundreds of thousands of followers and we want to bring them into steem.... However we have been met with a lot of negative energy by using the mercenary steem bid bots that are part of steem culture.
Fortunately.... there seems to be more positive enegy here then negative. I think we have the power to shift the steem culture to one that is more supportive and loving.
can you upvote me.. becasue my reputation is very low due to my own mistake.. now i learnt
If you construct a quality post and link it to me via DM in Discord PAL/MSP, I'll give it a full upvote and fix your reputation problem.
Note that I may prove to be a harsh critic of what quality is.
I will give you 1% as an assumption of good faith here.
I would be so glad if that full up-vote of yours reaches to my house. I tried to create a unique article each time I publish a content since day one and all I've got is peanuts.
I hate seeing people copy-paste documents and what is even more heartbreaking is when you see that the copy-pasted materials perform better than your self-proclaimed masterpieces.
Wondering how the legitimate contributors be able to survive in this current scheme of things.
One of the reasons I stopped posting right there. I spend 2-3 hours on some of my articles and they don't even make $2, and then somebody with a reputation over 70 comes along and posts one image (probably not even theirs) and a few sentences of text and makes $200. Bullshit!
There is a reason for this, and you might not necessarily like it.
https://steemit.com/steemit/@lexiconical/steemit-like-life-is-a-popularity-contest-embrace-it-or-devote-your-efforts-to-other-pursuits-your-problem-is-not-the-reward
The solution is more persistence, more networking, and the willingness to, like all other artists, work for shit for awhile (at least.)
I think @contentking has a valid point. Of course to a certain degree it is normal and OK that popularity plays an important role in a social media platform, but in my opinion since HF 19 self-voting (or using multiply accounts which upvote each other) or kind of 'circle-voting' (A upvotes B and C, B upvotes A and C, C upvotes A and B) between big account holders has become much more beneficial. The reasons for that I described here (your opinion would be very appreciated).
In the same article made a plea for implementing 'diminishing returns' which I described like this:
"How about if after each vote on a specific account (including ones own account) each further vote on the same account would lead to significantly less curation reward for the voter and less profit for the upvoted account? Thus, when upvoting an account which I had already upvoted before, my voting power would be smaller than in case I upvote an account which I didn't upvote before."
it is completely normal that a system will be exploited if possible, so I don't mean to blame anybody for doing anything. However, I think a system which makes self-voting less attractive would be better than the current one because it animates every user to upvote many other users and not always the the same ones (respectively oneself) again and again.
I understand, but I already have a successful online business, and like any other business venture, when one starts a business one has to look at whether or not the risk/reward is worth it.
I'm also not exactly convinced that persistence is the answer here.
I worked for 3 years on my online business, 12 hours a day, 7 days a week before I saw any return. I am certainly no stranger to persistence and hard work.
Right now, the question is whether or not I'm willing to put in valuable time here when I know that I can put it in elsewhere and see a reward for my efforts.
I guess it's just a personal choice.
You asked me what I thought the issues were here on SteemIt, and I told you.
Now, there will always be people who expect an easy payday from the Internet and will give up immediately and blame the platform instead of their own lack of effort.
I've been a member here for over a year, and for the first 6 months things were great. Then I began to see a pattern of low quality posts being rewarded better than those that were of much better quality.
Im not giving up on SteemIt, but I am going to back away and observe for a while.
I don't mean to sound arrogant, but my time is valuable, and at the current time I simply cannot put effort into something and simply hope that it's going to be fulfilling, both intellectually and financially.
I guess I'll see what happens.
At any rate, I do appreciate your insight.
Yep. I also have an ongoing business, and I'm having a HARD time ramping up the motivation to try to write content on steemit. Only get paid for 7 days, have to fear getting downvoted/having account destroyed by someone with more clout if they don't like you (with no protections against that), etc.
you did not read the full article. don't put false comment here. you should do comment according to post.. best way is downvoted to you.. and be care ful again
Yes... Some people are popular or something and everybody and their pets upvote them.
I rarely see true abusive/copypasta being voted. Are you also referring to what contentking is saying below? If so...
Apologies for basically pasting this comment unironically, but...
There is a reason for this, and you might not necessarily like it.
https://steemit.com/steemit/@lexiconical/steemit-like-life-is-a-popularity-contest-embrace-it-or-devote-your-efforts-to-other-pursuits-your-problem-is-not-the-reward
The solution is more persistence, more networking, and the willingness to, like all other artists, work for shit for awhile (at least.)
Take that upvote and go write yourself a quality article.
Thank you so much for that! It really made a difference. It's been a tough blogging journey since I first joined last month.
But there is no better alternative for the moment so I guess the show much go on. I have already started this, let me complete.
I only wish steemit.com won't evaporate into oblivion any time soon, else our handwork and time wasted would be utterly meaningless.
Good job! Thanks to @lexiconical you have planted 0.13 tree to save Abongphen Highland Forest in Cameroon. Help me to plant 1,000,000 trees and share my Steem Power to the others. Selfvoting is prohibited, but that should be the reason to spread the world to protect our precious environment. Check out profile of our conservation association @kedjom-keku and the founder/coordinator @martin.mikes to get more information about our conservation program. My current SP is 14273.94. Help me to plant more trees with your delegated SP.
Thanks a lot,
your @treeplanter
www.kedjom-keku.com
You and me :)
Any photograghy post i can't make due to my low reputation. on which topic i will make q quality post
Here is the discord information:
http://minnowsupportproject.org/discord/
I'm willing to reveal your images (images are hidden, but not deleted, at low rep.)
thank you sir.. i checking this site
i am registered on above link.what i do now sir
Yeah..I like ur everypost
DM in Discord PAL/MSP.. what is this and how i link it .. please guide
You clearly haven't learnt, as vote begging is a good way to get your reputation heading southwards..
Good job! Thanks to @lexiconical you have planted 0.13 tree to save Abongphen Highland Forest in Cameroon. Help me to plant 1,000,000 trees and share my Steem Power to the others. Selfvoting is prohibited, but that should be the reason to spread the world to protect our precious environment. Check out profile of our conservation association @kedjom-keku and the founder/coordinator @martin.mikes to get more information about our conservation program. My current SP is 14273.83. Help me to plant more trees with your delegated SP.
Thanks a lot,
your @treeplanter
www.kedjom-keku.com
You said about simply superb contenking , nice one.
Thanks. I'm glad you got some value from the comment. I was only expressing my true feelings. I'm sure others feel the same, and maybe some disagree. It's all good, though. I respect everybody's opinion.
Ok cool , take it easy and make it easy.
Sir this I also I feel the same as you.
Yeah, I know what you mean. I pretty much agree with this article. I hate it when I run into these self appointed "paladins of justice" that will lecture me endlessly if I ever did something they consider a mistake.
you only want money.. you should do comment according to comments.. just don't reply blindly. best way to downvoted to you and be careful in future.
Yes !
this is a awesome post and obviously well received by the comment engagement.
When I started to read this post, I felt you were talking with me and taking some digs, not understanding the motive of some posts.
People need the to be able to make a choice, and what information does is give them choice and question their ethics
I self vote - always have done, why? well I have worked online for so long, the concept of social proof is build into me, so that first vote gets the ball rolling. Now I am also in a hurry to build my power so I can be seen and respected here on Steemit
Not everyone has the luxury to buy steem, and I am one of them. Should I be less respected because I can not afford to invest 'cash' but can invest time? Should I not be able to reward myself with a upvote for the time I have invested?
There are people here on steemit that have shown real entrepreneurial spirit and for that, well lets just say they have been 'bashed'
I dont know how often I have 'not' posted some of my data analysis because of fear of backlash. Free speech lol I don't think so, I can see from your comments you are watching over your shoulder for that downvote. I know that feeling well
"the concept of social proof is build into me, so that first vote gets the ball rolling."
This is so important, and people totally ignore it.
Why do these people think there has never been a tip jar in human history with less than $1 in it? Magic?
"Should I not be able to reward myself with a upvote for the time I have invested?"
Only if it meets with the arbitrary approval (or, perhaps, lack of disapproval) of the feudal overlords.
"I dont know how often I have 'not' posted some of my data analysis because of fear of backlash."
I'm aware of this and wish I wasn't. It is dismaying. Data should speak for itself.
"I can see from your comments you are watching over your shoulder for that downvote."
Not well enough, it would seem.
" I know that feeling well"
I'm beginning to wonder if it is worth it, or if I should perhaps stick to posting about clouds or...doing something else entirely.
I have posted good content and I am guilty of posting crap. What I find strange is that my crap does better than my actual skill ed writing.
I get pretty out there sometimes. I am fed up with people copypasta 20 articles in different 'categories' hoping to sham their way to the top.
I have been delegated into being a minnow for, like 2 months. It sucks hard to be a minnow however seeing.the platform from their point of view is a way I can.reserve compassion for newbies and users fumbling to earn.
Vote your own stuff unless you are selfvoting single word comments then go mine shitcoin.
I don't mind people with alternative accounts. Just don't be a jerk. It brings the jerk out of me.
This post is a breath of fresh air. I am glad you are such a Rockstar by helping minnows and other users get their head.in the game.
Hope to see more people like you come out and be real.
"What I find strange is that my crap does better than my actual skill ed writing."
There are so many variables here it is almost impossible to pin down why this is. It could be your time of posting, or your tagging, or the topic itself, or the problem could be with others.
"I have been delegated into being a minnow for, like 2 months. It sucks hard to be a minnow however seeing.the platform from their point of view is a way I can.reserve compassion for newbies and users fumbling to earn."
I had the same experience. I overbought Steem at a much higher price than current, then overextended my liquidity. I delegated my Steem out to a friendly investor until I shuffled money around. Having near-worthless votes for comment curation is a wake-up call.
"Vote your own stuff unless you are selfvoting single word comments then go mine shitcoin."
Agreed. I'd suggest Ripple if it wasn't all pre-allocated, haha.
Good job! Thanks to @lexiconical you have planted 0.13 tree to save Abongphen Highland Forest in Cameroon. Help me to plant 1,000,000 trees and share my Steem Power to the others. Selfvoting is prohibited, but that should be the reason to spread the world to protect our precious environment. Check out profile of our conservation association @kedjom-keku and the founder/coordinator @martin.mikes to get more information about our conservation program. My current SP is 14273.85. Help me to plant more trees with your delegated SP.
Thanks a lot,
your @treeplanter
www.kedjom-keku.com
Brilliant post.
Code is law: To me means that if something is possible on the blockchain, then it’s allowed. If it’s harmful to the platform, then we need a fork to fix it, not reliance on the good will of the masses not to take advantage of it.
Self-upvoting: To me, this just means you value the effort you put into your post. Unless you’re spamming or plagiarizing, I see no reason to second guess someone’s motivations for a self vote.
Vote buying services: These exist to increase the chances of content being seen. If you value your effort enough to take the risk of buying a vote that will put your content in front of others who may also find value in it, that is your decision. Some people see this as cheating, but I’ve never seen them mention the Promoted page, which does basically the same thing as pay for upvote services, except that it puts the post on a separate page that nobody ever looks at. Pay for upvote services are like the Promited Page only better.
Voting Bots: Some people seem to think these will destroy Steemit. Everyone’s going to have a voting bot upvote for them and never read the posts. I use Steem Voter and I still read posts, and vote manually as well. There are humans behind every bot. And when I did manually upvote everything, I still had the option of not reading, which I’m sure a lot of people are still doing. We don’t need to get rid of bots, which is pretty much impossible anyway. We just need better bots.
Cheers.
I love your points.
" then we need a fork to fix it, not reliance on the good will of the masses not to take advantage of it."
Agreed. Steemcleaners, Spaminator, Cheetah, manual rockstars of varying repute or notoriety such as pfunk or Berniesanders...they can only do so much. We must minimize the time and efforts of these people that we allow to be wasted on abuse with hard code, and not fight an endless battle against what can't be stopped. Remove the economic incentive with intelligent restrictions rather than "send our best men to die in the trenches for years". As a wild, off the top of my head, example, what if new accounts could not cash out any rewards for a full power down cycle? What does that do to abusers?
"Self-upvoting: To me, this just means you value the effort you put into your post."
I would argue if you aren't producing content you see worthy of whatever your stake's share of the rewards are, you've already dun' screwed the pooch.
Large users who feel they have enough to do this I, of course, applaud as much as anyone else who gives "charity" to something they believe in.
"These exist to increase the chances of content being seen. If you value your effort enough to take the risk of buying a vote that will put your content in front of others who may also find value in it, that is your decision. "
There are also valid reasons to use these bots that are not solely selfish. At the behest of a Steemit friend, I began using these last week and the difference for the curation rewards for my followers is mammoth. My post times don't always sync up with the bids on the bots, but when I can add votes to fully curated posts I am giving huge rewards to my loyal voters and followers who have stuck with me for months through what I am sure were not game-theoretically-optimal curation rewards.
I've also lost over 15 SBD on a single bid for boosting bots, as a result of last minute bidding antics. Depending on the time of day and the bot, there can often be no way to get these votes without actually taking a loss. I work hard on my posts, so it's still totally worth it, and I often do OK.
"Voting Bots"
I agree. These are a scapegoat for the real problem - voting without any real interaction, whether that be reading or in a side community in discord, etc.
Good job! Thanks to @lexiconical you have planted 0.13 tree to save Abongphen Highland Forest in Cameroon. Help me to plant 1,000,000 trees and share my Steem Power to the others. Selfvoting is prohibited, but that should be the reason to spread the world to protect our precious environment. Check out profile of our conservation association @kedjom-keku and the founder/coordinator @martin.mikes to get more information about our conservation program. My current SP is 14273.85. Help me to plant more trees with your delegated SP.
Thanks a lot,
your @treeplanter
www.kedjom-keku.com
I self vote, I know my effort and why not. Best wishes :)
This post, combined with the crap responses to the questions asked of steemit inc at steemfest, are a little worrying to say the least. It is not inspiring much confidence in the platform at the moment. It's no wonder the trend in the steem price is down with no signs of a turn around at this point.
I agree, people shouldn't be shamed into upvoting their own posts. It's your vote, it's your money, and you should be free to do with it what you please.
The bots are also helpful, especially if you put a lot of work in and there's an economic incentive to use them. Why wouldn't you use them? (You are killing it with the bots, by the way.)
Also, how the fuck did Laura Banfield go down to 4 on her intro post? There's some unjustified hate/jealousy right there. Jesus. No wonder she hasn't been back! Adding to this, I'd really like to see some stats on user retention and engagement given the type of shit that is going on at the moment.
Excellent but somewhat depressing post @lexiconical.
"Why wouldn't you use them?"
It's also worth noting that a lack of competition for the bots renders them increasingly "profitable", and therefore open to abuse. More bidders lead to the bots being used for promotion, instead of profit. I've lost 25%+ on several bids, but my curators get a big boost.
"(You are killing it with the bots, by the way.)"
A result of being asked to give them a try by a friend, and a refusal to go to bed or stop writing.
I really hope my followers will starting seeing the benefits after curation payout.
"Also, how the fuck did Laura Banfield go down to 4 on her intro post? "
Being a Banfield was apparently enough, despite her seeming quite nice and eloquent enough.
"stats on user retention and engagement"
They aren't good. Try @paulag 's blog, maybe? Or @me-tarzan .
"Excellent but somewhat depressing post"
Hah, sorry to be a bummer. I'm pleased we have gone unflagged so far.
Hi @choogirl, this is a question I actually know the answer to! Haha. @laurabanfield had the misfortune of joining a few days after her husband, @jerrybanfield, pissed off select members of the community for creating a steemit registration service that cost more money than someone else's steemit registration service, and apparently @laurabanfield was immediately deemed guilty by association. This all went down a day or two after I joined, and was essentially my introduction to the steemit community. Needless to say, I almost bailed right away.
For the record, I'm making no comment or representation of opinion here on @jerrybanfield, @laurabanifield, or the community. (lest I be downvoted into oblivion)
Thanks @doctor-onion. That makes sense. What a shame for Laura. This is not the type of behaviour that encourages new members and growth in the platform. Working your way around Steemit is hard enough as a newbie, never mind dealing with a sea of downvotes that destroy your reputation on your first post. That would be quiet soul destroying. I hope she comes back in time.
" select members of the community " ... bashed my rep during the first few weeks when the platform launched . I was stunned regarding the dedicate whale nickle and dime button clicking. That experience gave Steemit a Vap fail vibe feel to me. I only started reposting a year later. I have a build it and they will come mentality. Good content providers will hopefully dominate user feeds one day. I really do enjoy creating the content I post on Steemit. I just try now to block out all the poo poo fluff hoping this "gaming" eventually works itself out.... I'm not gonna let my negative experience at the start effect how I share on Steemit..... If new users keep having the initial same negative whale experience that most steemians eventually experience , Im sure a competing platform will surly take the lead in emerging new space. I like Steemit . I really hope all this all works it way out... honest open dialogue will help keep self perfecting the platform
Wow, that's a shit story as well. Thanks for sharing. I will check out your profile.
The revenge flagging is a seriously worrying issue for me on Steemit. It's pretty messed up that one person can flag your account into oblivion basically forever just because you said something they didn't like. :-/
Good job! Thanks to @lexiconical you have planted 0.13 tree to save Abongphen Highland Forest in Cameroon. Help me to plant 1,000,000 trees and share my Steem Power to the others. Selfvoting is prohibited, but that should be the reason to spread the world to protect our precious environment. Check out profile of our conservation association @kedjom-keku and the founder/coordinator @martin.mikes to get more information about our conservation program. My current SP is 14273.95. Help me to plant more trees with your delegated SP.
Thanks a lot,
your @treeplanter
www.kedjom-keku.com
Good job! Thanks to @lexiconical you have planted 0.13 tree to save Abongphen Highland Forest in Cameroon. Help me to plant 1,000,000 trees and share my Steem Power to the others. Selfvoting is prohibited, but that should be the reason to spread the world to protect our precious environment. Check out profile of our conservation association @kedjom-keku and the founder/coordinator @martin.mikes to get more information about our conservation program. My current SP is 14273.93. Help me to plant more trees with your delegated SP.
Thanks a lot,
your @treeplanter
www.kedjom-keku.com
Hello @lexiconical, thanks a lot for this article. It keeps me thinking about it again and again. I read it already twice. I mostly agree with you. But I am still really confused. I started on steemit to raise funding for our conservation program. We are really small NGO trying to save and restore Abongphen Highland Forest in Cameroon. I guess you know our bot @treeplanter. I decided few days ago to ban self-voting. Because I believed it could help us to get the attention of some whales to get more SP delegated to be able to plant more trees. I also prefere if our tree planters vote for some good content than themselves, but I do not mind much abou it. I really like the way you are thinking I would really appreciate some advice from you. If you have any. Help us to gain more funding to save the forest please. Thanks a lot.
@martin.mikes
I am giving thought to your predicament. It may be better if we discuss further on Discord.
However, we must first establish your ultimate goal. If saving the forest is it, then you need to maximize profitability, even if that comes at the cost of you or your bots reputation or public perception.
I suggest nothing sinister or immoral, but both increasing the bot voting limits while also allowing self-voting would drastically open up the market of users who would send "donations" to the bot. You could still restrict self-voted comments. At the current RoI of your bot, you would be a great alternative when Randowhale is sleeping.
Delegations to improve the voting power of the bot will be very difficult without offering profit-sharing, which may ultimately be necessary. Unfortunately, it is tough to compete with better rates of return elsewhere on the morals of saving a forest on a continent your target market is only about 1/6th likely to live on.
I am continuing to think up concrete suggestions for you. We should discuss this further. I am always in the MSP / PAL Discord. We may be able to assist you further there beyond what I can do alone.
http://minnowsupportproject.org/discord/
Thanks a lot for you points and advices. The goal is really to protect the forest.
Ad. selfvoting. Yes, I would ban selfvoting on comments, but allow selfvoting on post but only from users having less than 5000 SP? So it will be as minnow support.
Ad. delegations. I do not have much problems to offer profit-sharing, but how much? I am going to connect to discord.
Thanks again. I hope we will find out the best way for our conservation program. I still believe we could use steem to save the forest.
I am going to get you a proper response asap. For now, here's a tree.
ok, thanks, I will be waiting.
I’m a little confused about the statements regarding how you were rewarded or not rewarded for your subjectively good content. This seems to be a common complaint for most users. Is this not simply a natural consequence of “popularity?” Most users across social media in general will never have “popular” content. The same will be true for users here as well. Expectations of new users are mostly unreasonable.
As for the rest of the post - stakeholders can have opinions about anything discussed here...and they can even vote accordingly. One may call these opinions “shaming,” but they’re still just opinions by stakeholders about what they think the platform should be. If we’re talking about anarcho-capitalist ideology or an economic platform in general that’s built around stake-based voting, then that’s just the nature of the beast. And to be clear, “shaming” the “shamers” is just as valid, but make sure you can recognize that this is essentially what you’re doing.
People can do what they want with their stake and others can criticize that behavior. The only thing that matters in my book is whether or not the behavior is actually censored by some central “authority.” I don’t consider a user or any affiliated group of users as a “central authority.” Some might disagree with that opinion.
On that note - there is a group of accounts that have a considerable majority of stake in the blockchain/platform that have indeed “conditioned” behavior around here and have decided to pick “winners” and “losers.” They have also stacked witnesses in the past and have attempted to silence their critics. They can do that if they want but it’s still not helpful in any way whatsoever. Speaking out against these people - or criticizing any person or group in general - shouldn’t be considered “toxic” either. Criticism is more appreciated and needed than blind praise and continual fluff, especially when there are actual, persistent problems.
"This seems to be a common complaint for most users. Is this not simply a natural consequence of “popularity?”"
I would have thought so. However, it is such a persistent complaint I have written about it rather bluntly in the past:
https://steemit.com/steemit/@lexiconical/steemit-like-life-is-a-popularity-contest-embrace-it-or-devote-your-efforts-to-other-pursuits-your-problem-is-not-the-reward
"One may call these opinions “shaming,”"
Just to clarify, I agree with the clause preceding this one, and I'm not calling voting/flagging shaming. I'm talking about a softer form of more cultural enforcement, although I think flagging users for tagging mistakes is capricious at best.
"And to be clear, “shaming” the “shamers” is just as valid, but make sure you can recognize that this is essentially what you’re doing."
Agreed, I did point the irony inherent here out twice. However, I am mostly arguing for inaction, rather than controlling other's actions. Silver rule.
"I don’t consider a user or any affiliated group of users as a “central authority.”"
Eventually, a large enough affiliated group is indistinguishable fro a central authority, no? Can appropriate limits be defined?
"Speaking out against these people - or criticizing any person or group in general - shouldn’t be considered “toxic” either. Criticism is more appreciated and needed than blind praise and continual fluff, especially when there are actual, persistent problems."
I couldn't agree more.
Maybe it is "the nature of the beast" (as initially started up and implemented now) to concentrate Steem and therefore power into the hands of a few, making them a de-facto central power block against which any other sub-group of any size is powerless yet depends on for votes. I would argue that the effect on the whole group of Steemit users is as similar as makes no difference, and that only the good will of whales can break this effect, not the system itself, no matter how many disagree with it.
Thank you @lexiconical for bringing up this discussion!
In my opinion steem is a self regulating system, so users should use their own power to change the system in a direction they feel is good.
Problem is that the power is in the hand of a few. What to do if one of them hates you for personal reasons?
This is a blessing and a curse of the blockchain. If you allow the full range of human social behavior, you get the full range of it. The good parts and the bad parts.
I confess I am not perfect. I get tired of explaining the same thing to a thousand people: Posting spam under other peoples post when they did not ask for it is not nice and some people may not like it. But should I flag it when my 1% flag is 23 cents and will push them from 25 rep to 18 rep? Should that be my decision alone? And if not, who would check with me?
I am glad that the MinnowBooster whitelist allowed you to make that point and bring it to many eyes. I am checking back in on the discussion in a few days, bookmarked!
This is a solid read and something which should be classified as historical literature. I am highly appreciative of the effort you put into this post. The chants of questioners must get louder and louder for change to be implemented.
Not even change. To just deliver what was actually outlined.
The system is broken and needs addressing. Steemit has great potential but watching a vlog from @exyle made me see that even hard believers and investors like him are starting to wonder how it will be able to go forward. The proposed fix for scalability, even left him with a lump in the throat.
I do hope steemit can evolve and truly give power to the users.
Not just the select few who find themselves favoured.
Thank you for the high praise.
"but watching a vlog from @exyle made me see that even hard believers and investors like him are starting to wonder"
I would love to see this, would you mind linking it here? Thanks in advance.
I found another video which you might be interested in.
The part which I direct focus to is 8:33 - 10:49.
It makes sense now.
Their target is not at all the user starting out from scratch.
Their target is big business and those bringing financial input for result.
Steemit may essentially become the classifieds section tailoring to advertisers.
From a business point of view I see the stance taken.
However, why then present this as an opportunity for the little guy. By design, your chances of getting reward are slim if you don't first put in. The little guy is clearly getting used and abused just like in the existing networks.
We are an audience only. Fooled to think we make the network. Am I reading this wrong or what. This video has shattered any optimism I had left.
Yeah here is the vlog.
Proposed scalability fix is at 2:24 - 4:32.
Viewer can make up their own mind.
His words and body language say plenty.