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RE: GOOD PERSON TOKEN: Something Big Is Coming From Steemit Inc!
The only thing about this structure I’m having a hard time grasping is what would make GPT hold monetary value? What’s the incentive to buy & hold that gives any monetary reward? It seems like a perfect companion to Steem to replace the current trending & reputation algorithms, but I don’t grasp how the GPT rewards pool will hold and distribute monetary value.
Even if it has negligible USD market cap.. will it still be sought after? Reddit Karma is at $0 USD market cap and is sought after still.
However, tokens take on value for lots of reasons.
For instance, if Steemit trending were sorted by GPT, would that not give GPT value in how it can boost visibility of a post?
Thanks for the reply! Absolutely there’ll be some inherent value regardless, and I’d love to see a system like this implemented for reputation & content discovery.
However, if higher amounts of GPT have greater influence on trending, we’ve still arrived at stake weighting albeit on a different coin. If GPT balance can be seen as indicative of a positive reputation or contribution to the community, it would seem strange that this could be bought.
I guess in my head, in it’s purest form I’d see something like GPT being a non tradeable asset, a pure measure of a users “social currency” that they’ve earned and not bought.
Only in that way could I see stake weighting of GPT working well, as it denotes and controls a users “influencer” status.
Obviously I’m going off the barest of info and my imagination! The key is in the synergy between GPT and Steem. The right mix will give everyday users a greater voice on the platform, which will then influence distribution of Steem rewards organically.
No matter what, I’m excited to hear more!
Hey @Bryan-Imhoff,
I think you haven't completely gotten the content of the post. Here are the 3 rudiments contained;
1-
Account-Based Weighing: GPT will not be a stake-weighted thing. You earn it based on following correct social principles as its name implies. Having more GPT will NOT earn you more GPT.2-
Individuality Verification& 3-Superlinear Rewards CurveThese ones I think are self-explanatory.
I hope I cleared your confusion. Cheers!
fucking rofl
I was straying back into the concept of stake weighting just because of the mention that GPT could have a value based on its ability to sort trending content. With account based weight this wouldn’t be the case, as a 1 GPT balance would have the same effect as a 1,000 GPT balance in the same account. In that way I would see GPT as more of a gamification mechanism, as the actual use of it for voting purposes could be achieved with a simple badge system or on/off switch vs. a running token balance.
I can appreciate the value of a GPT like system as a sorting and content discovery mechanism. However I think the monetary value will still rest in Steem distribution. If GPT doesn’t directly distribute Steem, and only distributed itself (more GPT) then the monetary value distribution will only be influenced organically via better sorting & discovery, but will still rest on SP holders to actually choose to vote for the discovered content.
I guess my biggest question is if the blacklist only prevents the flow of newly generated GPT rewards tokens to the affected accounts, or if it also negates their influence on the system entirely. I’m guessing it’s the latter, as it seems to be crucial & necessary. With any GPT holding account having equal influence on content discovery, it would be trivial to acquire and distribute GPT to a bot network.
GPT is interesting and very welcome. However, won't this break the value of STEEM? As I understand it, part of the reason STEEM is valuable, is because users/ advertisers buy it so their posts can reach the top of the feed.
So, how will you guys make GPT coexist with STEEM in a virtuous cycle?
Buying and post-boosting via upvote bots is a fairly recent activity frowned upon by the majority of community members. So its safe to say that that's not what gives steem its value.
STEEM is still the currency of the platform. GPT is just a currency to ensure that users who follow socially acceptable behaviour eventually earn more STEEM.
Steem got its value from tether and upbit. Users of steemit have little to do with the price.
"Socially acceptable behavior" rightly scares the heck out of conservatives ...which make up a good portion of the platform membership. I am guessing this could be a huge train wreck if handled in a P.C. way.
Six to eight months ago selling a vote was a mortal sin ;)
Only a few services existed for the actual / real purpose of postpromotion.
The problem with bidbots and vote buying is not that they exists.
On one hand it has become the only profitable business around, this has increased the demand for delegation leases and drove the price of delegations higher thus drying the organic vote SP pool.
The second one is that we spend too much time working on blacklist, because of the poor use comment and post farmers are giving to the bots, if we spent that time doing a whitelist instead the farmers will go somewhere else or try something different..
Exactly @Ned. Thanks for comparing it with Reddit Karma which is our closest competitor. You are doing a great job! APPRECIATED.
i'm assuming GPT distribution is going to be based on account-based voting?
i'm still concerned because you can have a group of GPT holders to agree to upvote someone. it doesn't have to be a quality post. all you need is a bot (or a whale) to pull together some resources (GPT) and start selling it as a promotion service.
since everything is running on the steem block chain, anybody can create automated services (like bidbots) that is based on GPT. am i right?
i'm not against buying exposure. essentially it's advertising. but it seems like we're gonna have the exact same issues we have right now. visibility doesn't mean quality. it only means steem power? which can be delegated and/or sold?
Bid bots and collusion can violate the Constitution (Expected Behavor Writ) of the oracles’ whitelisting — and therefore those people will be consider “bad actors” and will be barred (not whitelisted) from participation in GPT Rewards
Bidbots are one of the big problems of steemit because they do not go with the main purpose of the platform is to share original content and quality and create projects for the benefit of everyone on the platform ... but this goes through a worse evil even within steemit and is the "bad distribution of wealth" ...we are copying the real world distribution where many have little and few have much... if this does not change everything will continue badly and will make people leave steemit for not seeing him future ...
wow thank you for the reply! so all my guesses are wrong.
tbh i've tried many bots. i've also made a simple one for myself to save time. does that mean i'm now barred for life in participating in GPT?
'bad actors' sound a little vague. and if steemit inc starts defining them i'm concerned you're moving towards a centralized system.
i love steemit because it allows all kinds of bots (for now?). some are simply more dumb and abusive. but a lot of them are fighting each other which i don't think ever happened in any other platform (at least not in a meaningful depth and scale like this). like buildawhale vs transparencybot.
so i feel like 'wisdom of the crowd' is already doing its job. just not at the speed/scale/scope you'd probably envisioned. but once you start favoring one behavior over the other i fear you are killing something that just started taking life of its own.
i have more questions and wanted to ask you some of them during gopax meetup that i really wanted to hear from you. didn't get the chance..
but thanks again for clearing one up. i truly appreciate the work you're doing.
When people realize that bidbots are profitable, but only for the powerful ones that have them, people will stop using them and maybe it will really start to be easier to grow in steemit...the only thing the bidbots achieve is to increase the bad distribution of steemit's wealth...we complain about these evils in the world but we accept them in steemit...
i don't think calling something evil and simply dismissing it would benefit anybody either.
bidbots is just one form of it. freedom on the blockchain means there'll always be abusers. but an opposing force as well. wisdom of the crowd should take care of it. if not, it's what we deserve.
i'm concerned about a whitelist run by steemic inc. once you start nurturing something can you really call it a quality post? a platform where anybody can create SMTs and competing is one thing. steemit inc writing down what they define as a 'quality post' is a different matter.
i can only guess the details so i might be completely off. but all i'm saying is you can't define it, let alone have someone create a whitelist for it. for the sake of argument bidbots themselves are original work by programmers. (pls don't get me wrong i'm not supporting bot activity) point being, you can't have 'wisdom of the crowd' when you have the #1 whale overshadowing it.
it's not the wisdom of the crowd ... it's the poverty of the crowd and wanting to get out of a post of 0.10 and that's why they use that rubbish ... I would forbid them on my part and those who have millions to make their business become in delegating sp instead of selling your vote ... so there will be better distribution of wealth and profits that really bring quality and projects
the crowd isn't poor. they're taking part in distribution of over 100s of millions of steem (10s of millions in usd). but i understand what you're saying. you don't like how whales are hoarding all the resources. but they're part of the crowd too. you can't simply take it away from them and distribute.
GPT is a completely hypothetical, second token suggested to show one possibility — regardless of GPT, there will be many tokens overlaying each other, and bots of various kinds will still be freely used in the many corners of Steem
@ned thank you so much for taking the time to reply!
i just don't think anybody's gonna overlay you because you're the biggest whale (at least nobody from within the community). but i also have to assume SMTs is gonna allow outside forces to come in and completely change the landscape? possibly someone who's even bigger than you or steemit inc?
i'm wondering if you're talking with the big names and whether they're planning to take part in SMTs or not. facebook is starting their own blockchains division. dan larimer (with all the attention he's getting lately) says he's gonna build a more decentralized social platform on top of eos. sooner or later steemit is gonna have to fight them. but if some of the biggest communities start embracing SMTs, it's a gigantic headstart.
i love steemit because before steemit i considered social media to be a waste of time. i also love the idea of a tokenized world. so i'm rooting for you. and i hope you win.
You are aware that there is no competition since the market is so small? If Facebook comes out with a similar service it will boost Steem Token 100x in value.
So you surmise once FB announces their token approach then the market just expanded by 10,000%?
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Death to the bid bots (and any variations thereof,) Ned. It's either them or us.
"'bad actors' sound a little vague. and if steemit inc starts defining them i'm concerned you're moving towards a centralized system."
UH< YEAH!
That was my initial knee jerk too. (Still suffering from the pain...)
"so i feel like 'wisdom of the crowd' is already doing its job."
Very true, and it's a wisdom of a crowd that understand networks and computers, attempting to let minnows boost their rewards.
"but once you start favoring one behavior over the other i fear you are killing something that just started taking life of its own."
I agree, and it sounds like @ned is not attempting to kill this, but balance it, which is interesting that they could co-exist actually.
Looks like JerryB is happy, so that's a sign...
thanks. i agree with most of what you're saying. except 'balance'.
ned's diagram shows steemit inc running a verification system and behavioral guidelines. it's more like censorship and control.
i'm afraid he's gonna kill it. kill 'wisdom of the crowd' that he's been promoting. kill decentralization and eventually steemit itself. if this roles out and GPT becomes the dominant force, you can be pretty sure it's gameover (unless steemit becomes an entire ecosystem where anybody can create SMTs, but who's gonna want to create one when they know all the front&top pages is controlled by steemit inc?).
i might be wrong because people actually enjoy regulations, censorship, and centralization. so i dunno. but i have money invested in sp. i hope i'm wrong and steem price goes 1000x.
" it's more like censorship and control.
i'm afraid he's gonna kill it. kill 'wisdom of the crowd' that he's been promoting. kill decentralization and eventually steemit itself. "
YOU are seeing much that occurs to me as well. It's not that difficult to take what exists and copy it, move it to another blockchain.
A blockchain with better distribution.
With companies offering millions to motivate developers to create new social media platforms.
With real Decentralization.
Without 51% control by 1 entity.
The motivations to do so are HUGE.
The outcome most likely will look very different from the stiffled and raped rewards pool we see today.
I DO BELIEVE once @ned is actually faced with some "Stiff Competition" (pardon the pun) he will rise to the occasion however ;-)
he did point out that there could be many oracles competing so there's a possibility it might not be so centralized. we'll see how it plays out.
but yes. once people start seeing steemit as a centralized system, it's going to be vulnerable.
Where is this "Expected Behavior Writ?" Can we get a link?
Thanks @ned for all the progress you are making for SMTs and to benefit the quality of the trending page with all this new well thought algorithm.
By the way, I was wondering if you got the chance to check my comment regarding #promo-steem and the @steem-ambassador guild about a week ago in your GoPax post.
https://steemit.com/kr/@ned/at-the-gopax-steemit-meetup#@gold84/re-ned-at-the-gopax-steemit-meetup-20180503t123911324z
Looking forward to your feedback when you get the chance.
Regards, @gold84
@ned I'm really looking forward seeing this in action, I had the feeling we needed something less capital and more human in order to recognize the non investor user base voices.
This sounds like a great way of doing it.
Whether it gets market value or not, I'm sure that a trending driven by it would be a nice incentive for recognition of the really good authors we have around.
I am glad to see someone with an actual saying and power to drive change showing understanding that each type of user has a different problem set and need to address them all in to solutions that are in the best interest of the platform.
I have like this classification of user types:
The minnow blogger telling us about his kids
The blogger that has the potential to become an influencer
The guys trying to do curation with small investment / coalitions of small stakes
The small investor exploring the possibilities of the platform
The persons or groups working in to creating and developing solutions and new models / opportunities for the platform
The investors believing in the platform
The investors looking to maximize ROI
Each has a mindset, different needs and a different approach, but i would say them all are required for the growth and escalability we need the STEEM blockchain to achieve, and their role is important in the ecosystem.
I do agree STEEM needs to serve all these interested parties.
"The minnow blogger telling us about his kids
The blogger that has the potential to become an influencer"
Currently the platform serves mostly this type of persons (wisdom of THIS crowd), attracted to an alternative to some other social media platform. A centralized platform alternative.. ?
They love their iphones and have no idea how they work inside, don't know how to set the video cam on their phone to HD either.
Seems to me the UI has to rule the day... to really have a "GPT" work correctly, because nobody will understand what's under the hood, and they really don't want to..
(Jeez the term GPT in itself makes me cringe, ouch...)
Most people today still ask me "what's an SMT?"..
I was thinking about the same thing.
Here is a thought I just had. (Late night ramblings of a madman.. hehe)
Assuming we have the GPT token. Accounts Based, Wisdom of the Crowd Awesomeness.
Now lets imagine if Steemit implemented a third SMT. Let's call it "PROMO".
If Steemit were to recreate the UI to to accommodate both GPT (Accounts-Based) and PROMO (Stake-Based)
We could then sort most of the posts by the GPT token based on total votes allocated to that piece of
content.
In addition Steemit could reserve the top three to five positions under a specific TAG/Community to be sorted based solely on the Stake-Based "PROMO" SMT. (Similar to how Google has the recommended/top search results.)
Here is the cool part. The PROMO SMT's reward pool will be primarily distributed through GPT tokens that are locked up in "GPT Power". The "GPT Power" would have zero effect on the GPT reward pool, but it could be used to distribute the "PROMO" token through the "Influence Sharing " feature that is proposed in the SMT Whitepaper.( Page 57). In this scenario lets say that 75% of the PROMO token reward pool is distributed exclusively through locked up "GPT Power" and the other 25% though "PROMO Power". That would allow both tokens to have a value to advertisers, power users, and investors. I would have to assume that buyers would prefer to use the GPT token to access the PROMO reward pool and advertise/boost thier visibility on the platform.
Value Flows
I hope this makes some kind of sense. Sorry for the bad formatting or spelling. I just wanted to push this out before I hit the sack.
WOW! That's a great idea to be passed off midnight ramblings Lolx.
The promo stuff though may hamper the original intentions of this platform.
The idea is to use the wisdom of the crowd to decide what makes a post awesome.
Once people can speculate on it and start buying it or promoting their posts with it, then the original intention will be broken.
IMHO!
Yes. it's a little rough and not ideal, but I would like to see the SMTs have some utility and value. I want to see more than Censorship Resistant karma points.