RE: NFL'S worst Coach "Jeff Fisher"
Vince Young ended up on the Eagles for a bit and that guy was awful.
Like many of the QBs you mentioned, he is good because of the scheme. I can tell you that Nick Foles doesn't look great out there, but the play-calling and scheme from the coaching staff makes it so he can survive. Same goes for Bradford or Keenum.
Also, VY wasn't all that bright. I've always remembered 2 stories about him.
- Very low wonderlic test score (the test taken by NFL players before they come out of college ): 4th lowest all time
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/609895-2011-nfl-draft-10-worst-wonderlic-scores-in-combine-history - He took out a loan for his birthday party and "didn't know he had to pay it back:
"[Young] does believe he may have signed three pieces of paper that were notarized, but he was told they were banking instruments, that they needed his signature for some banking documents,'' Dolezal said.
The guy was a great college QB, but just didn't have what it took for the mental part of the game in the NFL.
As for Jeff Fisher, I haven't seen enough of his coaching career first hand to give a good perspective, but the podcasts I listen to (specifically Bill Simmons) really think the guy is an awful coach as well.
Quote from this article: https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/former-adviser-says-vince-young-needed-300k-loan-for-birthday-party/
Ya scheme is everything, and if the coach isn't behind you, good luck. I would agree with foles, but Keenum is making good throws.
Young was a good QB. He won a lot of games and played well before Fisher designed the offense for him to fail. There are plenty of people who are overall dumb but good at doing a certain thing. Young proved what a competitor he was too.
And its BS people say that about him in Philly. I remember him having one good game, one bad game, and one ok game, but people who dont like him just want to remember it as him sucking when really he was ok overall. VY and Tebow got railroaded like no two QBs Ive ever seen.
I would agree with you that Jeff Fisher didn't exactly help him, but both he and Tebow were not necessarily good enough to be starters. As a result, these fall into maybe LOW end starters or a back-up QB.
When you look at back-up QBs in the NFL, there are two possible players:
Young / Tebow would fall into that last bucket and GMs doesn't didn't see the risk v reward.... plus the level of publicity both pulled, especially after their college days.
Don't get me wrong, I think both were phenomenal talents in their youth and had an other-worldly instinct for winning. Tebow even showed this in brief stints as a prob, but it all ultimately comes down to technique. These guys just didn't have it.
I am always open to a good sports debate!
You definitely make so good points, and sorry if I seemed defensive but I am just a big Vince Young fan and thought he got a raw deal. Im not saying VY or Tebow wouldve ever ended up being elite QBs, but I thought they were both definitely good enough to start for at least a few teams (especially Vince).
Honestly I think what hurt their careers more than anything was their unconventional styles (and the amount of attention Tebow drew didnt help either). VY had an unorthodox throwing motion, but I did believe he was fairly accurate. Mariota (the Titans current QB) actually reminds me of him in ways. I do think Young was best when the offense was kept simple, but IDK if thats due to a lack of intelligence or his playing style, which involves running around making plays without over thinking it.
Imagine him and CJ2K running the read option though.
I just think it was wrong that they were both out of the league so fast. I see more conventional QBs who arent very good at all who still have jobs like 10 years later and even end up getting to play from time to time, and I think that VY was clearly better than them. Like Matt Cassel still has a job, which baffles me, and even Dan Orlovsky of the 0-16 Lions from 2008.
Also on a Tebow note he had a winning record, and got bounced for people who never won games. I played sports all my life, and was better than a lot of people I played, but some people I played just knew how to win.
Agreed. Tebow really was someone who could just win even if he wasn't that great from a technical QB sense. Ultimately, teams just didn't want the media presence that came with him. Same goes for Colin Kaepernick now. That guy is WAY better than a lot of the crap quarterbacks that started this past year.
Ya, but after working to become a pocket passer, he was broken. He was not the same guy that had the playoff run. He looked awful and was not winning. Tebow looked awful and was wining.
Good point. Either way, all of these QBs we are talking about might win you games but can they ultimately win you a Super Bowl?
I think the answer is no.... then again, Nick Foles is one game away for my Eagles! haha.
Good chatting @bigram13 and @magic-sasquatch