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RE: Contending for the Faith: part 1 of ?

Ok. I understand your point now. Thanks for clarifying.

Your understanding has at least one thing wrong with it. It presupposes that Timothy not being circumsized even though he was a spirit filled believer in Jesus who was intimately acquanted with the Torah and the Prophets (scripture) is the same reason the whole nation of Israel didnt get circumsized, who didn't have a personal/internal relationship with the Messiah.

That is speculation and an unfounded correlation.

However, Paul gives a clear reason as to why he would circumsise Timothy. He did it to not be a stumbling block to the Jews he was ministering to.

Acts 16
1 Then came he to Derbe and Lystra: and, behold, a certain disciple was there, named Timotheus, the son of a certain woman, which was a Jewess, and believed; but his father was a Greek:
2 Which was well reported of by the brethren that were at Lystra and Iconium.
3 Him would Paul have to go forth with him; and took and circumcised him because of the Jews which were in those quarters: for they knew all that his father was a Greek.
4 And as they went through the cities, they delivered them the decrees for to keep, that were ordained of the apostles and elders which were at Jerusalem.
5 And so were the churches established in the faith, and increased in number daily.

Right from that context we can see that he circumsized Timothy because of the Jews in those quarters because they (the Jews) knew his father was a Greek. He didn't do it because he wanted Timothy to be obedient to the Torah. He did it because of the Jews and their knowledge of Timothy's possible uncircumcision.

Contrast this reason with when Paul refused to circumsize Titus:

3 But neither Titus, who was with me, being a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised:
4 And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage:
5 To whom we gave place by subjection, no, not for an hour; that the truth of the gospel might continue with you. Galatians 2:3-5

Notice that these were false brothers. They were the Circumcision Party, also known as the Circumcision and the Consision. They weren't unbelieving Jews who needed to be evangelized. These were Jews who had been evangelized yet we're now teaching that Circumcision and keeping the Law of Moses must be done to be saved ( saved is in the future tense, meaning at the resurrection.)

Understanding this helps us understand why Paul circumsized Timothy, but refused to circumsize Titus.

He further clarifies why he circumsized Timothy here:

18 What is my reward then? Verily that, when I preach the gospel, I may make the gospel of Christ without charge, that I abuse not my power in the gospel.
19 For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more.
20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;
21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.
22 To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.
23 And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you.
1 Corinthians 9:18-23.

This clearly explains why Paul circumsized Timothy. Not because he believed it was still necessary, because he clearly didn't believe that, otherwise he would have circumsized Titus and wouldn't have told the Galatians and the Corinthians to not get circumsized.

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just because you repeatedly state that Paul did not think circumcision was necessary just not mean that the statement is true. That statement puts paw in a position to contradict what God Said. Your position creates a contradiction in the scriptures.

Why does Paul need to Circumcised Timothy to please these Jews? Wouldn't it pleased the Jews to circumcise all Gentiles as well?

Who am I kidding, why would I expect somebody who openly rebelled against God by not circumcising his own son's to understand the proper context of circumcision being spoken of in the New Testament.

I laid out dozens of scriptures and asked you to show me why they don't say what they plainly say. Should I write those scriptures out again?

You keep bringing up the point that I didn't circumsize my three some as a rebellion against God. If I believe that Circumcision in the flesh is no longer required for Christians today in the New Covenant, how is that being in rebellion towards God? I've listed the verses that inform my understanding. I then asked you to show me through exegesis on how I am misunderstanding those scriptures. That doesn't sound like open rebellion to me. If I believed physical circumcision is still for today and refused to circumsize my son's, then that would be open rebellion.

I am asking you to change my mind if I am wrong. Show me how to properly interpret the writings in the New Testament that clearly teach a spiritualization of Circumcision as being done in the heart by the Spirit, aka, the new birth, born again, new creature?

If I believe that Circumcision in the flesh is no longer required for Christians today in the New Covenant, how is that being in rebellion towards God?

Because your belief contradicts what God himself said. Did you see the image I posted of the gay pastor? Based on what you just stated he could just as easily ask " If I believe that homosexuality is no longer sin for Christians today in the New Covenant, how is that being in rebellion towards God?" and you couldn't say a single thing to him because it's his belief versus your belief. It's his interpretation of the Bible versus your interpretation of the Bible.

Spiritual circumcision aka circumcision of the heart is not a new testament/new Covenant thing. Someone told me that in the old testament circumcision of the heart is mentioned more than circumcision of the flesh. I haven't sat down and counted the mentions of both but I have no reason to doubt the validity of that statement. For one circed at birth they still need to have a circed heart. For one not circed at birth they will have the circed heart first at Salvation but out of obedience to and love for God the circ of the flesh should follow.

Knowing God is a just God and that the Bible cannot contradict itself and that there were men who taught that circ of the flesh would earn you salvation I would say that any time it seems someone is speaking against circ they are speaking against it as a means for salvation.

By that logic, then the church can not be the new Temple of God since the Tabernacle, then the Temple of Solomon then the second Temple would still be the place and focus of worship of Yahweh. Rather, the Temple worship was a shadow, just like circumcision was a shadow of a future, spiritual reality. How do we worship God now? Do we go to a physical temple and offer animal sacrifices through a human priesthood? Or do we worship in the Spirit offering spiritual sacrifices as individual and corporate temples of the Holy Spirit? I maintain that just as the temple was a shadow and reached it's fulfillment in the body of Jesus, just as the Priesthood was a shadow and reached it's fulfillment in the body of Jesus, just as circumcision was a shadow and reached it's fulfillment in the body of Jesus. The reality of all the prophesies and promises and types are all fulfilled in Jesus.

Your logic falls apart in light of the prophecies of the third temple and Levitical priests in the millennial Kingdom.

That's another topic for another time. I'll rest my case on this train of thought. My logic doesn't matter anyhow.