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RE: Plants vs. Pharmaceuticals

in #science7 years ago

It's funny how we were just talking about the evils of modern medicine in chat, and now you've just posted this! :)

As a person with many libertarian-style views, I'm often confronted with a lot of assumptions that I believe certain things. There seem to be many fringe beliefs that mesh well with a general distrust of centralised authority, and one of them that comes up a lot is alternative medicine in general.

Treat your diseases with herbs and homeopathy! Cure your cancer with algae smoothies! Give birth at home miles away from medical attention! Vaccines cause autism! Breast is best! (Okay, they're actually right about that last one. At least, I think they are.)

I feel a bit like the odd one out sometimes, retaining my trust in all this "established" science and medicine when I distrust so many other things people take for granted... but I think it might be the decentralisation factor that makes it different for me. When scientists sponsored by entirely different entities spread across the entire world agree on something, you should probably give a bit of credit to what they have to say. If there's any doubt about a subject, people are out there talking about it, very much in the open, and the truth will come out sooner or later.

About the other thing: I don't like pumpernickel very much. Always preferred rye... especially toasted, with eggs. Mmm. Rye toast.

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Vaccines cause autism!

Eugh. I hate it when anti-vaxxers preach this sentiment. It's a claim that's based on refuted evidence, but instead of taking that refutation at face value, for some reason it's assumed to be a massive conspiracy by big pharma. It makes discussion pointless, because their facts are not the same as your facts.

Sometimes I just have to shake my head at people who won't apply Occam's Razor - Is it more likely that vaccines don't cause autism, or is it more likely that vaccines do cause autism but there's a global coverup and every other scientist, globally, has been silenced by Big Pharma?

A trending post was just talking about how vaccines do not stop disease, and their only evidence was that rates of disease were already decreasing before vaccines were introduced. It's like saying airbags don't work because cars already have seatbelts! I'm not sure if there's a conscious choice to ignore logic, or if it's solely based on mistrust and paranoia?

I'm not sure if there's a conscious choice to ignore logic, or if it's solely based on mistrust and paranoia?

Hanlon's razor guides us to

Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.

Now I don't really think anti-vaxxers are stupid as such, at least, not all of them. I think it's unproductive to make that assertion. Some people might say I'm stupid for believing some of the things I do, but I'd rather they didn't, and I believe in treating others how I'd like to be treated.

I also don't think they're purposefully ignoring logic. Instead, they are driven by paranoia and distrust into a sort of self-perpetuated skepticism of life, the universe, and everything. Just as vaccines give us herd immunity, anti-vaxxers share amongst themselves a sort of herd ignorance. It's involuntary.

We can prove vaccines work. We have data to support it and a widespread, decentralised, and organic web of trust confirms it. But something happened with these folks' lives which shook their faith in that web of trust, or did not allow it to establish in the first place. If you are raised believing not to trust the establishment-- as part of a "chosen people"-type religious sect, for example-- then you won't know any better than to immediately dismiss anything widely regarded as fact simply because it is the mainstream status quo.

Anyone who's ever been religious can understand the cognitive dissonance encountered when considering evidence which contradicts dogma. There's an interesting sort of ever-present nagging feeling that none of this is real. That it's all a test. If you've never been religious, a way to awaken similar feelings within yourself is to consider that you are living inside a simulation. Imagine the skepticism with which you would approach almost every assertion from someone who doesn't share your belief in the simulation. You simply cannot get anywhere in a debate against this sort of reasoning. The only winning move is not to play.

I suspect that internet propagation of urban myths enjoys some infamy in spreading controversy and the idea that you can't believe what you read by supposed authorities (Bill Gates will send you money if you forward this comment to everyone you know. I live in Seattle and he's been sending me checks for years!) and now we have 'fake news' to add to it (After H&M faced huge controversy for putting an African American boy to model a hoodie which read “Coolest monkey in the jungle”, It is being reported that H&M is planning on releasing a new collection that according to chairman Stefan Persson, is “equally racist to all the other races”. The collection will be called the “You’re Not Alone” collection.) Both of these types of things erode our ideas that mass disseminated information can be trusted.

Belief in false info isn't new but now that we have an easy method of checking facts (people don't do it anyway) we also have a wider distribution of falsehoods and for fake facts.

(@suesa!) Pumpernickle, compared to other breads, is actually quite healthy as it has a very low glycemic load (low carb) and contains a boatload of resistant starches (doesn't digest easily and provides fiber) if it is honestly made from pumpernickle flour and isn't cut by white flour.

  • No, I didn't check this fact. I just read the article!

I will some it up for you.

Drug Thugs Big pHARMa Rockefeller Funded < Ignorant Doctors trusting LIARS > 26 doses of vaccines the first year of life >
Aluminum + Polysorbate 80> Over stimulated microglia and astrocytes
constantly pouring out pro inflammatory cytokines during the immunological programming of the brain >
Cytokine storm > Brain inflammation > Encephalopathy > Demyelination > Damage to the protective covering (myelin sheath) that surrounds
nerve fibers in your brain, optic nerves and spinal cord > Nerve impulses slow or even stop > Neurological problems > Oh it is just a
fever that is normal when neurotoxins cross the blood brain barrier > Just take tylenol >
Great deplete your glutathione which is necessary for the removal of heavy metals > Next well baby visit more doses > More Aluminum >
More activation > More inflammation More destruction > Autism.

Try building a house in a storm.

#1 cause of Autism? Ignorant
Doctors trusting liars.
Any medical professional who believes that it is justified to inject neurotoxins, antibiotics, antigens, preservatives,
adjuvants, stabilizers, buffers, emulsifiers, polysorbate 80, aluminum, mercury, formaldehyde, live viruses, egg protein,
human DNA, human cell lines from aborted infants, and protein from human blood into any person to prevent any disease is
completely misguided, misinformed, deluded and ignorant of any logic regarding human health.

What do you think autistic kids have going on?
Neuroinflammation!
Neuroglial activation!
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15546155

Breast is best but there's no shame in other methods if a person can't breastfeed for whatever reason :P

Anyway, I get what you're saying. Those beliefs and view always seem to cluster with one another and it's sometimes really annoying how a person you generally agree with can utter such nonsense.

I know. They'll be going on about how taxes suck, the government should stay out of our business, that sort of thing.... then they drop the anti-vax bomb, and I just can't help but be a little bummed out.

Do you want polio? Because that's how you get polio.

Plants are life!!!

Polio ? You mean chemical poisoning?

I agree to your post, on my own opinion I rather stick to organic certified herbal plants or grow my own herbs and plants which tends to be 80% less side effects

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