Social Control Series 2: The Concern over Advanced Maternal Age and Birth Defects is Irrational; Prejudice Before Science

in #psychology8 years ago (edited)



The wikipedia entry on Advanced Maternal Age reads like an intentionally persuasive call to action for women to have children before age 30.
read the full poopstain here

Advanced maternal age is associated with adverse reproductive effects such as increased risk of infertility,[4] and that the children will have chromosomal abnormalities.[5] The corresponding paternal age effect is less pronounced.[6][7]

It is readily accepted that advanced paternal age 'doesn't really matter', judging by the non-chalant mentions it gets across the web and minimal consideration it gets from doctors of conceiving couples. It hasn't been studied as rigorously. Consider that women were once thought responsible for the gender of the child and, in most cvilizations, blamed for the inability to conceive. Sometimes women were even killed or disavowed for not producing males. It's a historical tradition and human instinct to assume maternal factors first, from status quo before evidence.

Older fathers may contribute just as much as older mothers to the dramatic increase in Down syndrome risk faced by babies born to older couples. A new study found that older fathers were responsible for up to 50% of the rise in Down syndrome risk when the mother was also over 40.

http://www.webmd.com/infertility-and-reproduction/news/20030701/dad-age-down-syndrome

The subtext of the promoting the maternal age concern is a belief it's preferable women have children younger for the good of society. The subtext of that is a belief women should make sacrifices; sacrifice reaching personal goals and learning whether they're cut out for motherhood via life experience (there is a cultural archetype, subconscious expectations, that women should be self-sacrificing, but that's a whole other story).

My experience is that I very much wanted my biological children 'someday' when I was 18-21, then when I learned more about life and myself I changed my mind with complete confidence. Bullet dodged. I know a few women who had kids in their 20's, who said going back in time they wouldn't choose to have children again (despite loving the ones they have.) Not an easy thing to admit.

Maria Guido writes of her bizarre experience with maternal age stigma:

I’m 39, so I was approached as if I was some sort of dinosaur with dried up eggs attempting to have a child. After I was informed of the hundreds of genetic defects that a child that emerged from my old womb could have, I was offered a series of genetic tests to go along with the routine first trimester NT scan. [...]

A receptionist from my birthing center called me after she received those results to inform me that they had found some “soft markers” for genetic defects, and I should consider getting an amniocentesis.[...]

Her[Clinic Receptionist]: The screen shows that your baby has an elevated risk for Down’s Syndrome. Your probability came out 1 in 255.

One in 255? I’m not really a math person, but those seem like some pretty good odds to me.

Me: Is there any way we can start with the results from the test I took that has a 99% detection rate, instead of the one that has an 80% detection rate?

Her: Oh. Let me look. (flips through chart for two minutes) Here it is. This one is saying you are low risk for all of the genetic abnormalities it tests for. But because of your age and poor OB history, I think you should still have an amnio.

Me: Really? Why did I even bother to take the other test if it is coming back negative and you are still recommending an amnio?

Her: I’m not a geneticist. I can’t interpret the results. But you know, you’re not 20 – you’re 39.

From: "I Said I Refused To Be Freaked Out By My ‘Advanced Maternal Age.’ I Lied" by Maria Guido link

Today I learned genetic tests are pushed on pregnant women dependent on age range!

The advanced reproductive age effect is just another societal grey-goo boogey baby; fear-based and easily spread by mimicry and uninformed repetition based on peoples biases which lead them to readily believe things true which suits their personal beliefs. That shit deserves a run-on sentence.


So the premise is the increased risks of birth defects is undesireable, maybe even taboo to have a child if high risk is known. The concern is not just for downs-syndrome, but an overall higher risk of predisposed genetic defects for the individual. The slippery slope is that line of thinking can justify 'eugenics' as well.

Perhaps a better solution can arise someday where affordabe genetic testing is available to all at low or zero cost. This could also mean women and men of optimal fertility age may want to try such testing too, were they not prohibted from access due to being 'low risk' group (as things usually go when alotting healthcare resources.)

The prejudice would only extend; someone enacting their right to choose to go through with pregnancy despite a high genetic risk would inevitably fall under the same criticism as older mothers now.

That is the why discrimination against advanced maternal age is about social control and not science.

It justifies the status quo of older male younger female couplings. Which is more of an urban legend than commonality anyway. Statistics show ~60% of couples are within 1 to 3 years of eachother and a small minority over five years (data from USA, UK, Australia taken from Wikipedia (I won't bother looking further than wikipedia on this one.)

The fear-factor has people over-concened about maternal age. where a headline reads: "Study Confirms Link between Older Maternal Age and Autism" the end quote by the study's scientist is "Although it is rising, the risk of autism is still very low and shouldn't affect the decision to have children at any age,"

There is more social-cultural bias and stigma against older female and younger male couples than vice-versa. People question it, make assumptions about each partners intentions, etc.

Speculations:

The status quo of acceptable age differences in hetero couples may change. If women can avoid the advanced maternal age risk by bearing children of men much younger than themselves, women who wish to have children later in life may consider that in mate choice. Women have a lot more say in matters of reproduction and mate choice at any age, if you look at the reality and not the colloquialisms of fertility-based female mate selection (maybe some wishful thinking that with age male choice holds more power than female choice.) Combine that with women becoming equal or higher earning as men, it could very well be a custom one day to see more or just as many 45 year old women with 35 year-old men than vice-versa. Such seemingly significant social shifts are threatening, we have an instinct to resist change to 'tradional values' and the way things are always done. And so socially spread mythos about autistic bogey-babies with down-syndrome are born.

A study released in 2003 by the United Kingdom's Office for National Statistics concluded that the proportion of women in England and Wales marrying younger men rose from 15% to 26% between 1963 and 1998.

A 2003 AARP study reported that 34% of women over 39 years old were dating younger men

Regardless, statistics show that most couples are within the same age by 3 years and that is is a natural choice to want a life mate around the same age; relatable. Divorce statistics often say large age differences are a divorce factor.

My take 'n stake in all this:

It is self-righteous and useless to care about other people's preferences of parental age, spouses, singledom, polyamoury, abortion, sperm-donor vs. husband, or remaining childfree (you can't be childless if you never had a child.)

Ultimately, statistics shouldn't dictate personal choice in this matter. Whether social taboo or enforced via policy and custom, it is social control.

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I have done analysis for a genetic testing company on the correlation of maternal age and the number of genetically abnormal embryos. There is a clear trend that is shown that as maternal age increases the AVERAGE number of abnormalities goes up. It is just a way of reporting data, it is not a way of saying everyone above a certain age will have abnormal embryos. They do recommend genetic testing on women above a certain age(I believe 35). It is expensive testing but they are trying to find better predictors so they do not waste money on genetic testing. This could be done at any age. You should be aware of the risks of becoming pregnant on a more advanced age. I think the real problem is people interpreting data not social control, at least in this case.

Thank you for the response. I would like to hear more about the research and how the edit: (the stats on) abnormal embryos are logged and collected.

I'm not saying that the increase in risks is incorrect. Rather that what is chosen for scientific study and how our culture spreads results of data and develops status quo beliefs based on it is dependent on social and cultural biases. We have a way of interpretting the world which is passed on from historical traditions. It is largely subtextual and not always obvious or intentionally cultivated. In some ways science has replaced religion and quick conclusions come from scientific studies.

Consider that women were once thought responsible for the gender of the child and, in most cvilizations, blamed for the inability to conceive. Sometimes women were even killed or disavowed for not producing males. It's a historical tradition and human instinct to assume maternal factors first, from status quo before evidence.

The data isn't the only thing relevent. There's also why, what, how things are chosen for study (and how that's developed over decades since the technology has been available). Why are, why were, some things beneficial more controversial to study? (like some stem cell research.) And there's no way of really testing the genetic defects in older women with fathers much younger than themselves, for example. Often the lack of counterparts for a test can determine biases. It is essentially putting up an age group of women to a eugenic process that isn't applied to any other population.

I agree that society and historical preference can guide research and what is focused on. I also agree that people can interpret data presented to them through their own lens, and therefore see what they want to see out of it. The danger in your argument is that since you disagree with the testing (your own bias) you are coming up with alternative explanations on why the science could be wrong, without conducting your own research to refute. You argument does not have any basis except your opinion on how science, in general, is conducted. This genetic testing can save people a lot of heart ache and pain by getting this done. The place that conducted the research does recommend it for all ages but the fact is there is no scientific backing to have younger aged women occur such an expense. Also, to label it as a eugenic process is just plain libel. It is a screening tool so the MOTHER can make a well informed decision as to whether to carry on with the pregnancy. It is not up to, nor should it ever be up to anyone else. It is not about selecting from only a good stock of genes provided by the mother, it is about health concerns for both mother and potential baby.

I don't believe you read the post in it's entirety.

edit: I didn't argue that the tests should not be done.

I don't believe you read my post in it's entirety either. I never said you argued that the tests shouldn't be done. I argued that saying it is a eugenic process is libel and is based off your opinion, not any fact basis, of how science is conducted. That is where the danger lies. Science is fact based and if you are going to refute it, you should have facts not opinion, especially if you are going to label it with such strong terms like a eugenic process. I would recommend not tagging posts like these as science in the future, when it is clearly an opinion piece

I argued that it was a slippery slope to eugenics, based on the social biases and uninformed exaggeratons of maternal age. That it is culture which distorts the science (and this spreads to healthcare treatment)

Are some of the tests even performed within the abortion cut-off? Are they that accurate or do they scare pregnant women more?

Many tests aim to predict if the mother will have a pregnancy threatening her or fetus/baby's life, I understand. They aren't always about maternal age. I don't advocate abandoning the process.

I just dont understand how the relation to eugenics isnt clear so struggle to explain it further. Eugenics could be argued as beneficial to people and society.

You didn't say slipperly slope, you said it was already. Eugenics is the controlled selection based off of desired GENETIC traits. How you equate screening for abnormalities at advanced maternal age to a forced selection of genetic traits is a very big leap. What genetic traits are you even hinting at? Like I said that is fine if that is your opinion just don't tag it as science. That is my biggest problem with this post

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