Why do we need Prison?
Why do we need Prison?
It's a serious question, why do we need it? Is everybody who commited a crime such a threat for a certain time, we can not let them live with the normal people. After reading @dwinblood articles about how inmates are very beloved cheap labor forces, it let me to wonder "what is the alternative?". No Jail? Sounds crazy, right?
(source: http://transgression.com.au/what-happens-when-a-prison-goes-in-to-lockdown/)
Wikipedia
Well a short research on wiki revealed: Prison as the main form of punishment is an invention of modern days. A very interesting note is how the German Wikipedia tells a total different story compared to the English one! In the German version it says that our idea of prison as a punishment is a rather modern idea emerging somewhere in the 17th century. A time where slavery boomed as well.
The English wiki is just listing all the 'great' prisons that existed in early history and only mentions that some forms of brutal punishment were replaced by prison in the 17th century. It reads as if prison was a great humanitarian invention...
We do not need prison
So, do we need prison? My personal answer to this: We do not. A 10 year prison sentence rarely improves the attitude of a person. I mean getting your body tatoowed all over with Aryan Brotherhood symbols is not really something that will improve your stance in society. I guess the same is true for black people getting in contact with a load of gang members in their new home.
The only real reason I hear for prisons is: You cant let those criminals run free among normal people. Here the first problem is generalisations. The word "criminals" is used as if all of them are sociopaths, while those are a clear minority. And secondly I still don't understand how even 30 years of hard labor in a hostile environment would make a murderer less likely to kill again.
The alternative
My solution proposal would be a ton of psychologically educated social workers that have a very tight grip over the convicted. They could still punish them, even tho punishment is an arguable instrument for resocialization. But I think small punishments like loss of cellphone for a few hours, fees and even isolation can be ok. Isolation for a very brief time can maybe be good. 20 minutes in Isolation can feel like hours. Days in isolation, like it is often done to prison inmates, make you bat-shit crazy! I think that's just a fact.
(source: https://www.hackread.com/hacking-house-arrest-ankle-bracelet/)
This is just a raw idea of mine that I carried a long time. It's also cool that you get more demand for psycholgist, because people love to study psychology. There need to be some changes made in general to the studying of psychology, but that's a topic for another day.
Thanks @siddartha for encouraging me to make this post.
So, Why do we send people to prison?
Usually because they have done something that is not agreeable with the status quo - symbolized by the laws of the time.
As you say, most "criminals" in prison are not sociopaths, and most sociopaths are getting away with murder Scott free (Obama, Hillary Clinton, George bush anybody?)
Perhaps the solution to REHABILITATE disagreeable persons who have gone against the laws of the time, is not to suppress them in every way - which seems just to turn them into beasts - but to involve them in a special rehabilitation program that does things like take them deep into the jungle to connect with their spirit guides through the initiation ceremonies of drinking ayahuasca , or take them to workshops or have them meditate or build their own communities.
Perhaps involving these disharmonious or disagreeable persons in such a program - rather than inprisoning them - can help them to evolve and find themselves.
If such a program was in effect, it still should only be used for the worse criminals, and laws should be as few as possible, because we dont WANT to create criminals and want agreeable persons to live in our societies harmoniously.
My solution if I had just created my own sovereign community would be to first establish it as a rule free zone, except for necessary laws against violence, in which case the consequence for said violent action would be said rehabilitation camps.
Because if we want a free, open, peaceful and harmonious society, laws counteract that and so are not necessary.
Unnecessary laws create the opportunity for prisons to exist, and prisons create criminals.
I think this kind of thing needs to be studied deeply, and I'd love it if you could post about it more under the tag "philosophy".
I'd appreciate it if everybody tried to be more philosophical and write more philosophy posts.
Thanks for your post.
NAMASTE , and may all your dreams come true.
Damn good comment, on a damn good post. I cant even comment further.
Thank you for this post of a comment.
It feels like I am really not the only who carried the idea of "no prison" for some time in his head. I absolutely agree with your points.
With all these great ideas in the comments, I will soon make a post that concentrates on the possible alternatives to prison.
I love philosophy as well! Thank you for nurturing the discussion.
Perhaps you should learn to do as I have, and make a series of posts.
Easier to digest, more opportunity to get seen, and more money to be made.
why not, thanks for the hint
I took your advice ;)
https://steemit.com/politics/@thatgermandude/why-do-we-need-prison-2-alternatives
It is worth trying though it will strip some very powerful people of their slave labor.
The thing I find often that anytime you suggest and alternative they can often be WHAT IFed to death. "What if you let a serial killer run free?" That single question can be used to justify imprisoning millions of people and a large amount of them are likely in prison for victimless crimes. In other words, what they are prison for shouldn't be a crime in the first place.
Now you used the term "Hard Labor". That was indeed a deterrent if that labor was something that no one outside of prison wanted to do. It ceased being this quite some time ago. We are possibly sending more jobs into prisons than we are outsourcing them, but people don't really know about it as it is kept quiet. My posts the other day covered that with some specific examples to back that statement.
There are a lot of different ideas for how to deal with justice, and injustice. The problem is that just like with our education system we try to pretend that there is ONE SOLUTION that is suitable for all crimes and all prisoners. This is not true for the justice system just like it is not true for education.
One box does not fit all.
Speaking of this topic can often bring out the "just kill them" crowd that think we are whining about prison being unfair. That is not the case at all. The fact of the matter is there are people in prison who should not be. The jobs in prison are not exactly HARD LABOR anymore and it is much more like a vocational technical school now days. The more inmates they have the more new markets they can push into, the more programs they can start competing with the businesses who are outside of the prison system. The difference is the competition does not get to use slave labor, the prison does.
I think the concept of resocialization and prison are pretty much opposites of each other. Prison is an alternative society. Funny how resocialization is marked as wrong, because unknown by my spellchecking.
Also it is funny how people think murderers are always psychopath serial killers who just have an urge to kill. The wast majority of all crimes are against beloved one and family. That is because only people you love or are very close to, can make you feel enough hate that you kill them.
Also this conditioning of human minds by pain. Compare conditioning of dogs, is very questionable.
The concept of declaring someone an outlaw (german vogelfrei), banning or the subtraction of other rights might be alternatives looking into for serious crimes.
Oh and a side note I didnt know how to fit in the text: Many white people sent to America from Europe were sent as labor forces/convicts. SO you have a rich tradition of using con labor forces. ;)
But I didn't want it to turn too anti american yet again. Plus the problem might be big in america, I think prison as a concept is very flawed.
Thanks for the resteem, buddy!
This is a great idea in theory but I'm afraid it's not something that will do very good in practice. The reason why is because not everyone has the idealisms that some of us do.
In a wolrd where at least the majority of people would respect one another whitout violating one another's rights, this would be something that could work. But even when not all "criminals" are Psycos, there are people who can't seem to have any respect for even the most basic rights of other human beigns.
source: https://pixabay.com/en/hands-teamwork-team-spirit-cheer-up-1939895/
There will always be sociological sircumstances pushing some people to do the wrong. (among other reasons).
Again, the idea is great. But I feel safer knowing that there's some kind of fear among some people to be punished with isolation that makes them hold themselves from doing things that otherwise they'd be deliveratedly doing.
Because as you said "The concept of 'all human are evil deep down inside' is a lie pushed by the media in my opinion." and I fully agree. Because the "all" is what makes it wrong. However id doesn't mean that "No human is evil inside".
This is something that can't be just overlooked at. It's a deeper subject that can't just be expressed with idealisms and words. But the good thing is that the ideas are out there and as far as I can tell from people's replies if this ideas are passed on someday hopefully we'll reach an era where jails won't be needed anymore.
But in my humble opinion that era isn't here yet.
Sry, I was a little hung over yesterday, so I didn't feel competent to answer. ;D
Thank you very much for such a long comment! I really enjoy when people take interest in the topics I write about. I will definitely follow up with the promised proposals for solutions.
On your comment: I actually agree that we can not build a system around the thought 'nobody will do evil because humans have a good nature'. There are situations where the best of us do evil things. There is a famous German saying "erst kommt das Fressen, dann die Moral", which pretty much means, you have to survive (eat) before you can make moral judgments.
My idea is along the lines of: Why not just monitor the people in real life? In prison they get monitored 24/7. Just put a camera and a microphone on them, so they get monitored 24/7 but out of prison.
I will try to make my follow up post on this article today ;)
I understand, thank you for replying. I see your point and you're in the right track and it could possibly work in a developed country like yours but I guess it would have to depend on the crime and how it was committed intentionally or unintended. Because in some cases of murder if you leave the murderer free the families will take justice in their hands commuting a new crime.
I would also be in favor of bans (like not allowed in a city anymore) and "Vogelfreiheit" if it helps to get rid of prison.
Vogelfreiheit was a popular concept in Europe in the middle ages. It literally means outlaw, but many dont remember what outlaw meant in the past. You cant be defended by law, anybody can kill you and will not get prsecuted for it.
When you murdered someone with evil intentions, you lose your human rights. A fair punishment I would say.
Violent crime can also be a 1.World problem. Look at America, those guys are crazy ! ;D
Being an outlaw sounds like something to be scared of. And yes Americans are nuts.
Am I missing something here? Criminals are sent to prison as a punishment for their crime! It is to ensure that justice is served!
It does not matter if they may or may not murder again - they did once they and need to be punished. That punishment must be scaled at a level appropriate to the severity of the crime.
Too many focus on the perpetrator of the crime. There should be much more focus on the victim and their family.
I will leave it at that.
SirKnight!
I disagree. I dont believe punishment makes you a better person.
We human have developed society and philosophy so we are not like animals who need to be conditioned to behave.
Thanks for contributing to the discussion. It is good to hear an opposing opnion.
That's not my argument though. I couldn't care less if the criminal becomes a better person or not. I want the prick locked away behind bars for 25 years because he stole the life of another. In fact - I don't care if the murderer is ever released. 'An eye for an eye' as they say. You take someone else's life, your own should be forfeit.
but not all criminals are murderers. I wouldn't propose to just let it slide when a person is killed. But what about the murderer being released after 25 years. Do you think he wont commit crime again, because he was in prison for a long time?
They might kill again and at which time they would need to be punished again. To me it is the concept of 'justice' and justice me be seen to be done. The scale of justice needs to be determined based on the severity of the crime. I don't believe in prison for petty crimes, like you say there are other remedies. It also concerns me that there are many going to jail for things like drugs - to me this is a social problem stemming from high unemployment levels etc - and it is the cause which needs to be addressed. SK.
I will post an idea for an alternative to prison soon. How to handle crimes like murder, rape etc., is one of the toughest aspects in the upcoming post. I would love to hear your thoughts on that one, as well.
Regards TGD
Looking forward to it TGD - SK.
Damn good post, with a lot of good comments. Up-voted, re-steemed.
Thanks, man!
i like
thanks mate
Unfortunately I think the prison system is here to stay....Morality and compassion have left the majority of the population leading to more violent crimes against one another.
I would rather see like minded people voluntarily gather into communities and have a very small rate of people violating other people freedom. There isn't enough peaceful left to participate in a society like that
I dont buy that. Look at Steemit, so many friendly and peaceful people. The concept of 'all human are evil deep down inside' is a lie pushed by the media in my opinion.
There is lots of nice and friendly people but it seems as though so many were willing to lay down their own personal responsibility for convenience. When so many people are not responsible for their own self sustainability it leads them to be less respectful of other peoples rights to be free to exist outside of the means that suit them. I just cannot see a large enough population of people who are truly responsible for their own self actions emerging from this current mass of people. I don't think a voluntary society could rise out of society currently.
I truly wish it could because I don't like how things are right now.
Great post. I love talking to people about ideas.
I feel society teaches you to always look out for your own interests first and always try to get the easiest way. What does it get you to try hard at school? Nothing, but your classmates will call you geek and dork.
So I agree that many people have a weird sense of morality in this day and age, but I dont think it is impossible to change.
Thanks for the kind words and getting involved in the discussion.
If interested, look into how they manage it in Finland. Generally only the high risk and violent end up in 'real' prison.
Most get weekends and holidays off to spend with family and even get permission to travel overseas.
It is a weird system but seems to work more often than not.
Interesting. Thanks for the hint, I will look into it.
I even have to research german prison better, I only know about prison from TV and I watch mostly US series ^^*
Another big problem of the prison system in general, is the political conflict between those that think it should rehabilitate, and those that think it should punish. Keeping the public safe is often a kind of bolt on afterthought to these.
Punishment is really ineffective, or at best inefficient, at achieving any socially beneficial goals, so rehabilitation makes a lot more sense to me. And when you consider that, the best means of achieving this would not resemble prison as we know it. Timothy Leary claimed to have great results at rehabilitation by taking prisoners through a psychologist guided LSD session for example.
So that leaves the danger to society issue. In this case I would suggest that rather than prison they would require some form of mental health care. This might be secure in the case of violent sociopathy. But this would not be prison because they are not being punished. Again, if someone is either permanently sociopathic, or suffering temporary issues that make them dangerous, then punishment will only make that worse. No, they would not be serving a sentence either. Nor should such a hospital make its patients work. They would be free then when the doctor(s) sign them off as ready. But it should be rare for anyone to end up in that situation, certainly far less than are currently interred.
wow, I feel like you exactly described how I would make an alternative for prison. You also presented my point about punishment vs rehabilitation much clearer than i did in the post. I also heard about LSD having done miracle like work in psychotherapy. Maybe so good the deep state needed to ban it. ;)
I don't really got much to add, thank you for the great comment!
I think I will use some of your idea to make a blueprint for an alternative to prison as my next post.
Isn't Shadowrun some really complex RPG? following you btw :3
I'm not sure how complex shadowrun gets. I've only played the turn based computer games to tell the truth. Dragonfall and Returns. I have the Hong Kong one also, but haven't played it yet.
I saw a short review of it and I remember being a little bit confused. Does it have good tactical and RPG-depth? It reminded me a little of Jagged Alliance, but I forgot to ever look deeper into Shadowrun.
It is fairly good tactical. Not as good as xcom graphically, but has more varied character skills and a storyline with much more depth. Gets quite emotional at times, especially in Dragonfall. Also has a few moments of totally offbeat humour. Also the game plays quite differently depending on what skills you give your character.
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