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RE: The Politics of Negative Voting
I'm no bot. Why you downvoted my post? I have reputation 51, but now -3. What did I do? Sorry, please, return reputation!
I'm no bot. Why you downvoted my post? I have reputation 51, but now -3. What did I do? Sorry, please, return reputation!
I removed the downvotes I could, your pattern of posting meaningless replies like "nice post" over and over looked like a bot. Please make each comment original.
That's harsh.
Not just the fact that you downvoted them with no proof, but you called his replies "meaningless" when they were simply trying to contribute something.
A lot of people here don't have command of the English language as well as you Dan and they just want to voice their approval or disapproval as simply as they can.
Your voting history is frankly, horrible.
I've watched you upvoted obvious plagiarism, downvote obvious real people who verified themselves, downvote public domain articles, downvote comments you felt were earning too much (the same thing berniesanders is getting heat for doing) and downvote things you said you didn't agree with (in this case I'm referring to my marketing post for Steem) thereby taking away people's ability to earn from others because your vote outweighed hundreds of others upvotes. You were the only downvote and I couldn't earn a dime. Then you later went around upvoting people posting even worse images than a girl in a bikini top. It makes no sense.
I'm fully aware you have the right to vote however you see fit, but at some point you need to realize that your voting power and the way you vote haphazardly at times seriously affects others in more ways than one. You financially cripple their ability to earn even if many others disagree with your stance and you make the person feel that their opinions are not welcome, because you are are not only one of the largest whales, but a Founder of the platform. And now you can seriously hurt someone's reputation. Who knows how many bots shadow-vote (is that the proper term?) your account.
I sincerely hope that you start taking a harder look at how you vote in the future, because your voting history up to this point is just downright shameful for someone in the position you are in. So much so that I joked last month that you should proxy your vote to others who have the time to do more research before voting.
Well this is great and healthy @tuck-fheman. You've proved both yourself and @dantheman right. He said that negative voting should be clear, direct and transparent. You've called him out on what you see as a bad voting record. You've been rewarded over $1000 (at time of writing).
This is a perfect example of good, constructive healthy debate.
Wow, I would never expect such and honest criticism of whale by another whale. I think that I may be getting my hope back about the future of this community!!!
Nice one @tuck-fheman !
tucks not really a whale. i mean, i don't know the formal definition, but i doubt his vote is worth more than a couple bucks.
@sigmajin I don't know exact definitions. There seem to be many different definitions around (amounts).
For me anyone, who has got more than 15k Steem Power is a whale (Doplhin is past 1500 SP). Tuck has got almost 66k Steem Power. That's worth 320 BTC !!!!
I don't think that I have ever, personally, known someone who has had that amount of cash (if converted from btc)
I was going to follow dan then i read this and it cancelled out my wanting to follow him then i scrolled back up and realised dan is a smart guy and it cancelled out my wanting to follow you.
dan is a smart guy. but theres two parts to that. Being smart and being a guy. A guy whos trying to launch at least (it looks like) 2 startups and has a bunch of responsibilities, in addition to combing through the site.
With no wisdom of crowds to act as a check on his vote (because most of the "crowd" has an insignificant amount of voting power compared to him) and mitigate his mistakes (which are, as tuck notes, numerous and often absurd) everyone suffers.
Good call!
This is me right now after reading your comment.
;)
They both seem smart to be. People make mistakes and we can call each other out on them without completely discrediting them.
Get'em tiger!
Wow.
Yes it is very sad that even in the world of cryptocurrency, greed is the motivation. I feel that there is enough bitcoin and steem dollars to share and everyone eat. As far as positive/negative voting, as we see, money gets the winning vote. I feel that it doesn't matter who votes for who, in our society, whoever has the most money wins unfortunately. Buying votes has been done for years by candidates, and I just don't see it changing now.
I think this deserves a reply from dantheman..;)
LOL
Kudos!
But I hope this doesn't start a Dan-bashing trend
A couple shitty people downvoting a comment, from a new member that hasn't even been here 2 months yet, isn't really fair is it!? The politics here suck! It doesn't matter if you typing original content with positive meaning, you will still get Negative votes! If this keeps happening how are we going to get new people to adopt the steemit platform!?
Perhaps a thumbs up button would help with reducing "clutter" of this sort?
Users are used to thumbs up and thumbs down for voicing their opinions on something. It's quick, easy and familiar to us already. Currently if you want to show your support for a post, you have two options.
If you upvote you give a reward and reduce your voting power. An upvote is too strong and does too much extraneous stuff if you are simply wanting to give someone a pat on the back. A vote is precious and not to be given away freely. A simple thumbs up button is all that is needed to show some level of approval for what the poster has done. An upvote can be reserved for when the voter feels the post is worth a reward and the voting penalty to themselves.
It seems like a win-win for all involved. The voter can feel like they are showing support, the poster can feel like they are being heard and rewarded. It's not money, but just like in real life, even getting acknowledged for a job well done goes a long way.
And one by-product is that the comments section will be free of some amount of "fluff" comments such as "Good job" and the like.
Whenever I bring up this idea in Steemit.chat I get enthusiastic responses. It seems like something that must have already been considered, so I'm curious if there is some hidden pitfall that mucks the current system up?
Cheers
the funny part, is actually you want to support a post but you don't want to give any money because you are afraid to... get less ? (you understand that if everybody does like you, you might not get anything either... ) so between "less" and "nothing", I advise you to chose wisely.
I initially wrote a very long response, that I might turn in to a post, so I'll give you the TL;DR instead.
Yes, we get less reward when we don't vote judiciously and discerningly. Use my suggested thumbs up/like whenever you wish. Use the upvote when you feel it is worth doing so.
There is a pool of rewards for the day that we share when we reward users posts. It's like deciding how much everyone gets paid at the end of the day based on what everyone has done and that pie is fixed (more or less). The money isn't coming from your pocket it comes from the pools pocket and depending on how everyone feels about contributions for the day, everyone gets varying percentages of that pie. You don't get it when someone votes, you get it once everyone is done voting and the percentages are finally decided. Yes, it's a bit more complicated than that, but hopefully that gets the point across.
When most users vote for the top trending 10k post and inflate it, they are getting practically nothing in curation. If they were to instead use that vote on a much earlier post before it gets voted up by whales they will get a much higher curation reward. So my suggestion is actually between "nothing" and "potentially something".
Cheers
Your upvote is your thumbs up. It costs you nothing.
As far as I understand it, that isn't the case.
It costs everyone something. The pool is a shared reward. So giving to one user reduces what all other users get from the pool. Obviously it's extremely small in the case of one user, but when hundreds of users are piling on the top trending posts they are reducing potential rewards for everyone else.
My vote is reduced in strength the more I use it. So that is another cost.
I could have spent my time finding posts that are new and still have potential to give a curation reward as opposed to an old post that I'm piling on.
If I were to use my upvotes on content and comments, in the way I think we all should, I would have practically no voting power left. There are many users that don't get any recognition because people are concerned about using their upvotes on something that will not give them any reward and will only end up hurting their voting power. Many minnows would love to see more recognition considering they are getting very little in rewards. Not everyone here has dreams of getting rich quick by blogging or will quit their day job etc. We want to have a great environment to see interesting content without the typical trolling and with the potential for being able to make some extra money if people like what we say and do. Therefore giving us the option of a simple pat on the back to more users would go a long way in improving the culture of the community here.
Your upvote is more like your employer paying you, and a thumbs up is more like your employer saying you did a good job today, keep it up. And just like your employer giving you a pat on the back, it isn't as valuable as your wage, but its cost to benefit ratio is very low. It would be easy to add, users on both sides of the interaction would appreciate it and it would have extraneous benefits of reducing clutter in the comment section as users could just click thumbs up instead of posting "Nice post".
What's not to like?
I read your articles on the subject of where the money comes from, by the way. Thanks for taking the time to write it.
Cheers
Dude!
Your vote is worth less than mine!
I don't think you need to worry about its distribution. And this is a seriously unhealthy way for the steemit community to view the value of their contribution.
The whole point of curation rewards is to encourage you to USE your vote (apart from arbritrarily), not to hold it back as if it's valuable for you to do so. I wonder if @dantheman can verify this for us as I'm disappointed to see that you have support for a 'thumbs up' idea that would discourage people from using their upvote instead of encouraging them.
The whole point is to DISTRIBUTE the rewards, which is why some whales even allow their votes to be diluted by going over 100 votes per day. It isn't easy to go over 100 votes per day without actually hiring curators to help with this so you should NOT be worrying about this!
If we all became conservative with our votes then people would be less engaged, the platform would lose interest and therefore steem would lose value. This is why you should not view your vote in this way.
Your upvote is your thumbs-up
or your voice of approval!
Must you yell?
I've responded to your other comment:
And you can read my response there, if you care to. It addresses your response here as well.
There is confusion among most users about how the system of rewards and their distribution works. In fact, it appears that the only users that have a firm grasp are some very early adopters (maybe) and of course dan, similarly knowledgable users and the witnesses.
What happens when you upvote and leave a comment? Good/Bad? Doesn't matter or more valuable??
For the network, a lot more valuable. Many people read the comment section for additional dicussions and clarifications, so leaving a constructive or critical comment will enrich the content and other users.
It's also a good way to get your feet wet and get some initial author rewards as a new blogger :)
The comment section does nothing as far as Steem rewards for anyone concerned.
Interesting point. I think that it would be good to force everyone who votes (up or down) to add min 100 letter comment with every vote in separate section (or same as comments section).That would force everyone to give coherent reason for their vote and force them to actually read the post. Bots and spam should still be blocked.
I understood more of this will not happen again, thank you
This dude @macartem reply made him $242. He's fucking fine!
Its not about one-off solutions (he now makes $242). Its about finding the correct structural solutions and guidelines. How about the next case?
before we downvote somebody we should get in contact with him ask him to change. Only if he is not interested in change, or makes really serious offends we should downvote him.
Especially whales have a big responsibility before they donwvote somebody, because one vote can decrease the reputation that drastically that all future posts become invisible. And nothing is more frustrating then to have no change of not being heard.
The hardest thing for me is to see quick comments like "awesome job" and "amazing analysis" and NOT thinking they are a bot.
I try not to downvote them but sometimes I do because it truly is pretty meaningless. This is especially true if 75% of one's posts are 5 words or less. I personally prefer to not post at all if it is something short...unless it is something witty in the context of the situation that implies a level of cognition and reasoning only a human can accomplish. ;)
However to get back to the point, I can understand getting upset about being downvoted...but please realize at the same time it is difficult to not want to flag those comments because you see so many of them when your vote is worth over a buck.
There really needs to be a better way or repairing rep.
Getting rewarded 250 as an apology is insulting to the users spending hours and hours trying to make the Steemit system better through their original content and thoughtful commentary. This sort of reparations is out of line with the initial grievance.
I assume my comment is not new, but just wanted to get it out there since I've yet to hear it voiced. And I'm here a lot so that means something!
with all due respect, the fact that this reply and the one under it by @tuck-ftheman get a total of more than $1,400 payout - especially for @macartem as this payout exceeds maybe 100 times his/her overall payout of all posts ever. This fact itself says it all about the voting problem right now. if you somehow get involved in engaging with the whales, it may pay off much more than you diligently working your ass off all kinds of good posts, not to mention if you are in the center of disagreement among whales - it might be worth more than 1000 posts by 100 people! I sincerely hope my comment doesn't affect @macartem 's 'luck' - it is good for redistribution. so, lost a password or something and come forward to complain about it - you might just get lucky!
with that being said, I still love steemit and respect most whales who makes this happened. it is just the voting that is somehow sick at the moment and hopefully the new solution will improve this greatly.
There yah go, have a level up ;) 37>38, you'll be back in no time! You actually only need 5 billion rep until your next level. Sounds like a lot... but its not.
Yup thanks to your app I can see my next level like if I'm playing an RPG game. Love it