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RE: Sorry for The Whole SWAT Raid
hmm... I'm tossed about how I feel about this because I can kind of see two sides to it. Yes, the investigators should have done their due diligence to make sure they had the correct place. In fact, from your article, they did. What they didn't know was that it was old information.
But they can't go to the door as you suggested because then it would tip off the suspects and whatever time and resources they had put into the investigation starts over.
There is a reason for no-knocks...because given the situation (drugs) there are usually weapons involved. The element of surprise cannot be discounted. Our law enforcement is made of men and women who want to be safe too.
I see your point, truly I do. I'm of the opinion that the drug war is tyrannical, that a person should be able to ingest whatever substance they like based on the principle of self ownership. I also do not believe that SWAT teams should exist in the first place.
However, let's put ALL THAT aside and look at the situation for what it is. You say that surprise cannot be discounted when weapons are involved. Fair enough. But what we have here is a family that is luckily unharmed from a police raid because they decided simply to not even knock on the door. (I would even say magically unharmed given what great tactical talent exists in SWAT teams.) (Sarcasm.) Had they done even an ounce of research involving NO leg work, they should have been able to find that the information they had was stale, given how much the government, even at a local level, knows about you. Say they hadn't, and they went and knocked. This family, innocent mind you, would have answered and said hello and the police would realize they have an informant that is not reliable. What if the family had been injured? What if a baby present in the house was maimed because of a flash bang or some other military grade weapon used? Would we really look back and say "Well the element of surprise is crucial in these bogus drug raids sooo... yea." Damn, I would hope not.
I wholeheartedly agree that people should take ownership of what they do (and ingest). But I've also had countless of encounters of people, friends and family, who were out of control; stealing, hooking, ODing, and dying, so my perspective is that of a surviving loved one.
My parents owned a bar in Newburgh, NY. If you look up deadliest cities in the U.S. it's been hovering in the top 15 for decades. There was one instance where the police got an anonymous tip that we were serving under aged kids and selling drugs out of our bar. I happened to be 18 and bartending when about 10 cops came barging in with guns drawn. There was only me and one of my old time regulars at the bar playing Scrabble. I didn't get a call and there was no warning. They just piled in like gangbusters.
Well, I really tried not to laugh at them. It was apparent that some of them were really gung-ho about some action. So they searched the place (including behind the bar and in my cash register) without a warrant and left with nothing but their adrenaline. While I saw the humor in it, I admit I was also pissed! Where were my rights when we were targeted? What happened to being innocent until proven guilty? I easily could have the attitude of fuck the police but I also believe that when used correctly, they are an important tool for keeping society safe.
In my case, this didn't happen in my home, but it was my family's business but it still felt like a violation. What's the answer? Honestly, I'd had to see a country or state without rules because some people don't have a lick of common sense either. What's the answer? We may never know.
So, first, I obviously just want to say I'm sorry that you have lost friends and/or family to drugs. That's terrible and its tough for anyone to go through. I can't speak as of now to the feelings of losing a loved one personally, but I know people who have gone through that themselves and its just terrible.
If the day comes when I do lose a friend to drugs, I will not change my position though. A principle shouldn't be compromised just because I'm sad at the fact that a loved one could possibly die from their decisions. Its none of my business, its THEIR life, their decisions.
Also, stealing is already a crime, and violates the property rights of an individual, something I was actually going to get to related to the no-knocks. So someone on drugs who steals something is just as criminal as someone sober who steals something and I don't believe in outlawing drugs and compromising self-ownership to prevent theft, especially because government should never be in the prevention business.
I don't have the attitude of "fuck the police" because I don't think that's fair to the very very few libertarian cops who are out there truly serving their community, not pulling people over for speeding but actually being their to stop crime or catch criminals. But I am of the attitude that what police have become in this country is fucking ridiculous. The majority these days are thugs who are given an insane amount of power and have absolutely no idea about the constitution or the bill of rights, let alone any idea of what government should be doing morally speaking which is very little.
It felt like a violation because that's exactly what it was. If I ran a bar, especially in one of the deadliest cities, I would have a nice AR or shotgun under that counter. And if a gang, like an actual violent biker gang or something like that, came through the door with guns a blazing, I would defend myself and my property. How are the cops any different in that situation? They are not.
And let's say I didn't have a gun, I would call the cops!! The government shouldn't be allowed to do something that I would normally call the government to come stop!! Does that make sense? I may be saying it in a confusing way.
A good friend of the family actually lost all three of her daughters - all 3 hooked on heroin. 2 died from overdoses and 1 from suicide after getting high. She is now tasked with raising 2 of her grandchildren because one father is in jail and the other is AWOL. Death is easy. Surviving the loss of a loved one is not. My friend continues to blame herself...and she will not listen when people say "it's not your fault." But as a parent, we take 'ownership' of our kids. I would go as far as saying our kids are our legacy. They pass the stories and memories forward to the next generation. Our path to immortality is through that legacy. Am I getting way out there for you?
We can agree that there are bad cops everywhere, but I would say the majority are serving their community while the very few take advantage of the system and their authority.
But I believe the system is broken. I have a distinct feeling of us vs. them and have no faith in our government leadership, especially when they don't live by the same rules in which they govern the people by. I'd even say that our police officers, many whose goal is to serve their community and make it a better place, are bound by the governing faction.
Let me give you an example: gardenofeden often goes into the community to serve food to the homeless and needy. The cops show up because gardenofeden is doing something illegal. The cops didn't make that ordinance. In fact, many of the cops think it's a great community service and throwing out perfectly good food instead of feeding hungry people is a complete waste. But if they don't write a citation or put a stop to the civil disobedience, they're not doing their job. Whose fault it is? I'm telling you, there are a few bad seeds in the Blue ranks, but the focus should be on who pays them when you're looking at the bad apples.
(I can't reply to that comment you just posted, like there is no reply button, so I'm just replying to this one, I hope that's ok haha)
So, I think we are getting a little out there, but this conversation was headed there eventually. Let me ask, when those 3 girls were lost to heroin, was it legal or illegal? Answer, especially if in this country: illegal. So the fact that the government had a full out war against it didn't stop them from getting addicted. Something no one seems to want to talk about is the fact that around the world, when addictive drugs are decriminalized, the addiction rate is driven into the ground. Why is that? And I truly hope she realizes one day that she is not responsible for the actions of any other individual. Raising children is hard. At a certain point, they will make decisions on their own, no matter what they are told.
As for the police, we definitely disagree on the majority or minority being, at a minimum, "not fit to serve" if you will. But we definitely agree that the root of the problem does not lie with them. It absolutely lies in the system. The police are for the most part following orders when they do stuff I don't particularly like. They have warrants signed by bad judges enforcing laws passed by bad legislatures. But I guess my point is that if there were more good cops, they could in a way "nullify" the bad laws on the books by simply not enforcing them. But that is by no means a way to permanently change for the good. I think people need to wake up and vote in better politicians at local levels for real change.
I just want to say thanks real quick. I love any chance I get to have a lively debate with someone who is passionate about what they are talking about and who isn't insulting or degrading so thank you, my friend.
they could have staked out this address for visual confirmation