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RE: Crypto-tragedy: “Now I am a believer” or history repeats itself

in #philosophy7 years ago

Ofcourse there is enough money in the world to make everyone a millionaire. You can print as much as you want. Countries do this all the time.

Money is a representation of value for something else. If everyone has a million (which is possible) then items would correlate people's buying power. For example, in Switzerland things are more expensive because people have wealth that raise the overall value of specific areas. In contrast in Venezuela the opposite is true. Wealth is always correspondent to something else. In our case "buying power" in respect to things, either tangible (food, land) or intangible (futures, stocks, bonds).

You don't get it because you think money has an intrinsic value. It doesn't. Money are debt notes. Nobody has the corresponding value to anything. Most money are numbers hidden in things like 'futures'. When everyone has the same buying power then nobody can leverage on anyone for anything.

basic economics Alexi. Research something before you try to play smartass. Economics are not a philosopher's journal where every single thing can be perceived correct. The dream of "if everyone had a million then everyone will be better of" belongs to the realm of teenage fantasy, not economics.

to answer your first part. If everyone had $50 then all the things around you would cost around $50. Money were invented to calculate different values..otherwise you are as good as exchanging one thing with another.

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I think your comment that "Ofcourse there is enough money in the world to make everyone a millionaire." shows exactly the fact that we're talking about different things (you're talking about printing, I'm talking about distributing, more fairly, but not absolutely equally). All the things you said are, like you said, 101, you can get it from documentaries, you don't even have to a read a book. According to what you said above, Norway doesn't exist. Cyprus doesn't exist. London doesn't exist. The only countries that exist are ones like Brazil or Russia, where you have abject poverty and very rich people.

I get that, if a person is a millionaire, he won't be too eager to go work as a waiter, so in order for him to do so, he'd have to be paid quite a lot, and so the value of drinks would go up. OR I could just poor my own fucking drink, if the job is so stupidly simple. Or we could build machines to poor our drinks. Or build robots. I know this talk of robots plays into your 'teenage la-la-land' scenario, but in a world where everyone is a millionaire, I think building robots would be one of the more entertaining things to do!

But anyway the issue is complicated once you get into the nuts and bolts of it. For instance we fail to estimate what a person who's a millionaire would do with his free time. Like I said, maybe he'll use it to create inventions, which would increase absolute value, and therefore make the world richer in absolute terms. Maybe he'll use it to create art, which again would make the world a better place to be. Tim Berners-Lee gave us the world wide web for free. Maybe many of those millionaires would do the same: invent stuff and give it for free. Or maybe they'd just be lazy bums. That's why I say: economics collapses into psychology at the end of the day. We don't know enough about people right now to be able to predict these things.

You still don't get it. This is not about all being a millionaire and thus not being able to do a job. This is about buying power. In the countries you mentioned there is still a vast gap in the distribution of wealth.

Not all Norwegians are millionaires. Not all Cypriots are either. There are a few millionaires, a thick middle class and a poor class. Same exact scenario plays in almost every country.

Automation won't make everyone sit on their asses for the very reason that new industries will be created. If you lived back in the 1800's you would probably be one of those who complained that the steam engine would replace horse carriers, causing unemployment. The matter of fact is that the steam engine and further technologies lead to a thing called "social media manager" ..a job you couldn't fathom but still has a function in society. Same will happen with automation. There are still creative jobs like graphic design that cannot be completed from simple A.I. Those jobs would be more and more in demand. Other jobs will also come in play. Humans always create value and distribute wealth amongst themselves based on the same capitalistic principles. Heck, even during feudalism same concept applies. Even in bonobo monkeys there is a similar distribution of power. The reason is simple. Tribalism.

Tim Berners-Lee gave us the world wide web for free.

not really. that's a common myth. The world wide web was a step by step process that can be said to be started even from the time of Alan Turin and cryptography. Again. A common fallacy that stems from parroting encyclopedia pages without realizing that innovation is a process. In the same way the special theory of relativity was not invented by Einstein. Einstein was the tipping point of an idea that was building for many decades. That's how the world works.

Maybe many of those millionaires would do the same: invent stuff and give it for free. Or maybe they'd just be lazy bums.

This is actually true. Most billionaires spread most of their wealth for free because they understand that after they become rich, giving back is all that gives them satisfaction. Bill Gates does that, many other billionaires follow the same path. Still though, this does not eliminate the wealth gap that is getting bigger and bigger every year. We all become richer but the wealth gap is widening.

economics collapses into psychology at the end of the day. We don't know enough about people right now to be able to predict these things.

You don't need to predict these things. You can observe them right now in nature and in economies. You can even take all the attempt of communism and marxist ideologies that believed to exactly what you were saying. Every single attempt failed. injustice though works perfectly because this is exactly how nature is structured.

Why is leverage necessary? What benefit does leverage serve? As opposed to, say, trading based on people's needs? Is it leveraging me if I have excess bread but need meat while you have excess meat but need bread and the both of us combine our resources to make sandwiches?

How much the sandwich will be and who will make it? how much will he be paid?

No money is traded in this example. The point is a mutually beneficial exchange. IOW no one needs to be wealthier in order to get things done.

Money exists for trading. Check my latest post. I made a specific one just for this, explaining it with simple words, minimal math.

If everyone had $50 then all the things around you would cost around $50. Money were invented to calculate different values..otherwise you are as good as exchanging one thing with another.

With respect, this is getting into narrowminded ideologous thinking on your part. If everyone had $50, there would still be things they would trade at $5, $1, or $0.10. Where do you even get locked into this mindset that they wouldn't? What's your argument?

I am talking about a system of equal distribution. If everyone had capital that averaged 1 million dollars then the products, land, cars and everything else will be averaged based on that amount. There wouldn't be a measure for actual price other than the one set by the seller/buyer. Stock exchanges set prices based on the difference of value. If every single stock traded a million it would be hard to sell one to buy another. Everything will be around that 1 initial 1 million.

There wouldn't be a measure for actual price other than the one set by the seller/buyer. Stock exchanges set prices based on the difference of value.

No one is suggesting that every THING of value be forced to be equal. Things differ in value to different people, hence allowing for mutually beneficial exchange. You're shifting the example to be something ridiculous and then arguing against that. People having equal amounts of wealth does not inhibit the economy. That's the argument you contended against to begin with here.

People having equal amounts of wealth destroys the economy. Every time it happened it collapse. aka communism.

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