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RE: The Dark Side of Capitalism

in #money7 years ago

Way to express your doubts and look for answers. A few comments to consider:

  1. It doesn't exist in today's system but 'crony-capitalism' isn't capitalism. As you've noted, corporations of a certain size often work hand-in-hand with government. Services are traded, the companies for the violence of the state. In a truly anarcho-capitalist , violence is not exerted to maintain consumers. If a consumer no longer values a corporations services, they stop buying it and corporation makes amends or goes broke.
  2. IP doesn't exist in an anarcho-capitalist society. (I've thought about making a post on this). IP is a state enforced monopoly. Musicians, artists and businesses had no problem earning profits prior to IP laws. Property is physical. Products and services may have to change to accommodate technology, but that doesn't justify the use of violence.
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How do you know that crony-capitalism isnt a part of capitalism?

Perhaps it is the natural outcome of a capitalistic system.

Perhaps it is the natural outcome of a capitalistic system.

No it's an outcome of all systems that are centralized. Capitalism is just an excuse or perhaps a mask for these Monopolists (that is what they really are) to seize total power.

So they mix their Violent Monopoly Businesses with innocent Mom & Pops Stores and call it Capitalism. I think a distinction has to be made.

Didnt most of the monopolies/major corps you allude to start as mom and pops before they started eating up everyone around them.

WalMart, Home Depot, HP, Google, hell even AT&T......

So who created the excuse or mask for the monopolies if they didnt start out as that?

Yes but they would not have grown to that size if there would have been proper competition between them.

They either got in bed with the political class or they were connected before that. If you really do your research, you can easily see how most of these elite people are connected. Your uncle is a bureaucrat at X office, your grandpa is a politician at Z office and your cousin is a bureaucrat at Y office, how hard it is for you to become successful now?

  1. Yes I understand the difference but just as I wrote a section for "ANARCHO CAPITALISM", Chomsky debunked this exactly. The established Corporations would never allow it:
  • They get free tax subsidy
  • Favorable regulations ,IP Laws, Cheap Credit (from the central bank)
  • Small taxes and all the protections they need

Why would they not love the State?

So a real truth seeker must analyze whether Big Corporations are really voluntary?

2] Yes, but unfortunately most Ancaps today that I have talked about are Pro-IP. Plus they also don't understand the consequences of it, this would also reveal other dirty things if people go down this road.

  1. Chomsky does describe a possible outcome where corporations do build their own armies and become powerful entities. The first caution is that breaking the non-aggression principle is no longer anarcho-capitalism. There is also nothing wrong with a company becoming enormous. Companies become large because consumers value their products and they are rewarded for that. The bulletins you make are government creations - not capitalism.

  2. It is definitely a hot topic. I agree that people do not understand the consequences - the violence involved to regulate IP is enormous. As you put it, you'd have to police the world (which is being tried)

Chomsky does describe a possible outcome where corporations do build their own armies and become powerful entities.

And that is exactly what would happen. They can easily create their own mercenary armies and even make other people pay for it as "services"

The first caution is that breaking the non-aggression principle is no longer anarcho-capitalism.

As if they would care, since they don't return the bailouts and subsidies that they were given either on the grounds that taxes are theft.

There is also nothing wrong with a company becoming enormous.

Of course there is, it stifles innovation and it entrenches, possibly corrupts, the entity.

Companies become large because consumers value their products and they are rewarded for that.

So did I thought for long time, but it's literally statistically impossible to grow to such enormous sizes without government regulation. If there would be no governments possibly only small businesses would exist. Now some of them would strive for more power, and that would be dangerous since that could start some kind of turf war or power intermingling, so it has to be made sure that things are well decentralized and businesses only operate in their area of activity.

The bulletins you make are government creations - not capitalism.

Yes it is Government, but the corporations gladly like it, and even support it.

It is definitely a hot topic. I agree that people do not understand the consequences

It's even bigger, the intrusion from IP is astonishing. They are now even talking about implementing DRM in HTML, the backbone of the internet to sort of filter out copyrighted stuff as if that can't be abused by hackers. There are also plenty of DRM involved in all sorts of linked technology, it's very invasive and pretty Orwellian too if you think about it.

The state you live in today, is the monopoly that resulted from a failure to establish anarcho-capitalism. As I've said many times, the confusion we have over what is meant by government is very destructive here. By "government" many ancaps simply mean "the state", which I absolutely agree is flawed thinking.

Now some of them would strive for more power, and that would be dangerous since that could start some kind of turf war or power intermingling, so it has to be made sure that things are well decentralized

This is pretty much how I see it. "Decentralized" might have to be discussed at lenght at some point, but in general this is how most anarcho-capitalists see society being constructed

This is pretty much how I see it. "Decentralized" might have to be discussed at lenght at some point, but in general this is how most anarcho-capitalists see society being constructed

I have already wrote a few articles about it, so I have a general feeling how it would look like, but I still haven't figured out every detail. I guess that is how evolution is done, people figure it out on the way.

I wish ancaps would view it this way, but I think you are just conflating your own view with theirs. Most of the ancap community that I have seen is pro-corporatist , pro IP enforcement and in some way even pro State. They are mostly Libertarians who just want low taxes, but they haven't exactly figured out the nature of the State yet.

Depending on how new you are to the community, you may have seen a big change as of these last few years. It's not anarcho capitalism that's changed, well not for the worse anyway. It's a mix of people changing, but also both cultural and political fascists outright trying to infiltrate the movement. I've said before that it's getting very ugly currently. People pick sides over both satirical and more serious memes etc. The fascist trolls love it.

There have been a few breakout attempts here and there to restart somewhere fresh, but it's impossible to keep the real ancaps separated from the non-ancaps unless it's a closed off space with serious vetting.

I originally come from the far left many years ago and have a lot of experience with the ideological divides. But consistent anarcho-capitalists are not actually "right wing" - as obviously the left, but also ancaps often claim when an entirely different spectrum is used for meassure - and would have to be voluntaryists.

It's always hard to be convincing in a comment section on the internet. Although I've discussed this a lot over the years, I see the reward diminish all the time. Hell the monarchists often outnumber the anarcho-capitalists in communities such as on Reddit and Facebook. So I'm not going to use the ancap label unless absolutely necessary from now on. All it does is prevent me from speaking with other center-libertarians that disown the concept.

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