Is MGTOW a Problem for Society?
Subjective or Objective?
One of the problems with MGTOW is subjective in nature. The Problem is that of non-engagement. MGTOW tend to ‘go their own way’. There are lots of MGTOW that are conveying the principles of MGTOW in public forums educating younger men as well as older men to the idea that there are options for them and that they are not alone or crazy.
MGTOW Growing in size
Many will argue that as the MGTOW message grows in literature and media (YouTube and other video sites), the MGTOW mindset grows among society and I agree with this. Many a man quietly becomes MGTOW’ish through hook or crook as they are red-pilled one way or the other. Today’s MGTOW are become younger and younger. It is not uncommon for seasoned MGTOW to mentor young men via the natural bond men have among each other. After all we are brethren.
Invisible in Plain Sight
However, many MGTOW, while not meek in any sense of the term, are not vocal and tend to not agitate. In fact, again as it is their nature, they tend to pull back and remove themselves from the social realm to a degree. Many do not fully participate in society and others outright ghost or Galt themselves within society, invisible in plain sight.
Men Opting Out
As our societies gravitate further and further to the left and gynocentric societies, MGTOW retreat further and further into a non-participatory mode of societal existence. Many do not aspire to jobs that fully utilize and further develop their skills. Many intentionally seek employment in the black market that pays little or no tax. As well, many work the minimum number of hours to sustain their minimal existence while pursuing what truly makes them happy during their free time.
Greener Pastures
As the days go on and the social situation between women, white knights, manginas and simps become worse and more concentrated, isolated and discouraged, many MGTOW leave for perceived greener pastures. They head for countries not traditionally considered ‘the west’. These countries provide refuge through alien cultures and laws they consider to be not quite yet stacked against men. These men are usually the reddest of the red-pilled men. These men see the effects and cannot help but see the writing on the walls and pack up and leave the west. This is a problem for society.
Hunker Down
Like organizations that contain only ‘yes’ men, the dilution of society of men with this mindset further concentrates and supplants a balanced social mindset with a leftist anti-male social mindset. As society leans further and further to the left, more highly concentrated red-pilled men leave for greener pastures, further diluting society of any form of balanced ideologies and this continues like some self-fulfilling prophecy for Armageddon and the fall of western society. To prevent the collapse of society, at some point MGTOW are going to have to hunker down and stand their ground. Until that time, MGTOW will be problematic to society.
Posted from my blog with SteemPress : http://h20ho.com/papers/is-mgtow-a-problem-for-society/
And why should I do that? Why should I care about society?
Society did not care about me. Quite the opposite: Society has become living hell to me other other men.
Warren Farrell said: “All societies that have survived have survived based on their ability to prepare their sons to be disposable, in war and at work--and therefore as dads.“
Most of these societies did so by offering the survivors of the carnage some benefit (i.E. Wife and children).
But feminist society doesn't offer men any benefit at all. So I see no reason to fight for society.
Lastly: Women made the mess. Women must fix it. In fact only women can fix the mess. There are the majority of voters, they are the one politicians listen too. Women must fix it.
I think we are somewhat saying the same thing. MGTOW should hunker down, not men, not society, not women, MGTOW. MGTOW need to stand their ground and be MGTOW, not get married and not be disposable.
Why you should care about society is because you made it. It is being co-opted by a society that is gynocentric, women, manginas, white knights, simps and emasculated men. I agree with you about society being a living hell.
What is the difference about not doing anything about it now and letting it fail, then starting a new one and then what? Letting the same thing happen again and being in the same position as now? I believe that we are also accountable for this mess. We (our forefathers) allowed this crap to happen.
I agree with you that unfortunately the problem can only be fixed by women. I do not think that is going to happen. Maybe if society totally collapses they will learn?
There is no problem with MGTOW as there is no problem with manhood. There is a crisis of a true womanhood. MGTOW is a way of asserting oneself in a society set against men, especially white men in the leftist West. Read on https://steemit.com/psychology/@maciek-mowi/everything-wrong-with-jordan-peterson-s-advice-to-young-men
To the question in your title, my Magic 8-Ball says:
Hi! I'm a bot, and this answer was posted automatically. Check this post out for more information.
I think MGTOW and the femi-nazi movements are both just attacks on people having a nuclear family.
I think you have zero idea about what MGTOW actually is, however, I don't blame you for this because there are a lot of women-hating MGTOW out there. The attack on the nuclear family is not from MGTOW but societal laws that weaken any motives towards having nuclear families and de-incentivise men from participating in a sham that ultimately will destroy their sovereignty over their resources and freedom.
Here is the real kicker, many think going back to a traditional trad-con societal structure will fix the problem and it is not going to fix the problem. There needs to be a new societal model and I don't think it is going to be nice. It's going to be more nationalist or statism-like whether we, in the west, like it or not. The non-western nations are going to adopt this model and the west will either follow suit or be over taken and then have it imposed upon us anyhow.
I get what MGTOW is and I understand why the movement exist. I'm a dude, been done dirty by women before. I look at everything through a biblical worldview and honestly see both sides as part of the problem. The only solution I see is getting back to how the Bible views things. Will this happen? No, not until Jesus comes back. I think like all things the Devil wants division men vs. women, black vs. white, and so on. Anyway just my thoughts.
You are welcome to your views. Being done dirty by women is not what MGTOW is about even though most think this. The problem is not much research has been conducted on MGTOW.
I have done some surveys and the overwhelming demographic that answered my survey (not many mind you, just a few hundred) have been young men under the age 30 who have never been married, have no children and were raised in a nuclear family.
I must admit I am shocked by this demographic but this is what I have found.
Blaming this issue about the nuclear family on men, unless manginas, simps, white knights or feminized men, is like blaming the cows for being turned into steaks on the BBQ for being tasty.
As stated I am not religious however being raised in the west means that I was 100% influenced by one religion or another. There are many things I concur with regarding the bible which I only regard as the worlds greatest and most important piece of literature including historical literature (so I do have some regard for the book), is that Man is the head of the woman and woman is the head of the family/children.
The problem with the nuclear family today are the anti-male laws. In the past if a man and woman were to divorce, there were no court cases regarding who received the children, the men did 100% of the time. It is only since the middle of the 20th century has this changed.
It is ridiculous and nonsense for a legislative body to give custody of children to a parent, no matter who, who could not afford to take care of those children and then demand the other spouse to pay the unworthy spouse so they can care for those children.
Additionally, men should not need to pay women for the privileged of having taken care of them, supporting them and looking after them for years, an act that was once considered honorable and nice, but now is not even acknowledged.
Additionally a woman should not need to pay a man for the same either.
The entire idea of common law is a farce. Living with someone is a cognitive decision one makes with the full faculty of ones mind and there does not need to be some time limit assigned to turn the voluntary act of marriage into a balkanize involuntary act of violence usually perpetrated 100% against a man.
No, I am not willing to put the blame on men other than the fore-mentioned men of ill repute and bad emasculated characteristics who support such destructive and divisive laws. If any blame at all is to be bestowed upon men, then it is the fact that they allowed such abomination to have occurred in the first place via ignorance of thinking and being brain washed that they were doing the correct thing.
MGTOW is not a reason for the decline of the nuclear family, it is a result from the elements of society that has been the reason for the decline of the nuclear family.
P.S. I do thank you for your responses and comments. It is quite satisfying to engage in discourse in this day and age that has been starved of such banter.
It is nice having a respectful discussion now a days it's quite rare in the P.C. communist culture we have but I def enjoyed the convo.
You got cause and effect the wrong way around.
MGTOW isn't the cause of the destruction of the nuclear family.
MGTOW is the effect of an already destroyed nuclear family.
Men have no hope to have a nuclear family of there own and therefore go MGTOW.
vermithrax, I am not sure if you are responding to me or not but you are saying exactly what I said so I am confused about your statement saying I have it the wrong way around.
"Blaming this issue about the nuclear family on MGTOW [...]is like blaming the cows for being turned into steaks on the BBQ for being tasty."
"MGTOW is not a reason for the decline of the nuclear family, it is a result from the elements of society that has been the reason for the decline of the nuclear family."
Either way, thanks for the comments.
It was an answer to @t-mo 😉
Sorry, Yes I totally agree with you. MGTOW is a reaction
There are still some good women out there. You're just looking in the wrong places. Lot's of bad women and men out there too.
If you are lucky you find them and that is not the way it is supposed to be. Also, who is to say that 'good' women are not going to be poisoned by all the influences that are prevalent in our societies today. Additionally, I totally agree with you about the ‘wrong’ places. However, once upon a time, the wrong places used to be quite few and far between, today, it is the complete opposite. Where are the ‘right’ places today?
I advise to not marry today. How messed up is that? There are many cons to marriage for a man today and absolutely no pros to get married that cannot be obtained without being married. Honestly, what are the pros for getting married that cannot be debunked or obtained without marriage? Fidelity? Companionship? Children?
I honestly cannot name one. I used to say for the children, that a nuclear family is so important for children, which it is, but does being married ensure that with divorce rates today? Also, can’t I be in a nuclear family without being married today?
Society is really in trouble when there is a large subsection of societal men (MGTOW) actively promoting not to marry (justifiably so), the one thing that truly makes women happy, the one thing that makes women complement men and men compliment women.
The sad thing is many of us feel that going back to the paradigm of the 1950s (TradCons) is going the magically fix things. Once you see something it can’t be unseen and that is where women are today. I know where the solution lies, but I also know that the only way for it to prevail is not going to happen.
Here is a video that describes a bit of the problem. The solution being promoted is your observation, men are looking in the wrong places. Those places are become fewer and farther from our reach. The habitat of the happy women is slowly disappearing and soon ‘the happy woman’ will be extinct.
I'd say a church (not apostate). Biblical manhood and womenhood fixes a lot of those problems. As for a secular humanist I have no idea where one would look. But like I have said before I look at everything through a biblical prospective. So to each there own.
I think that is horrible . Firstly, that means 30% are just out of luck. Secondly, there are a lot of horrible people that go to church. Your chances of finding that 'right' person is probably the same if not less than divorce rates which are over 50%.
It is easy to see the crisis that is upon us. I keep seeing some future dystopia were we farm people. Personally, I would prefer to be a part of a different society that is populated with like-minded people regarding the nuclear family.
Well like I said I think through a Biblical world view and yes there are bad people in churches but a lot of good ones as well if you can find a KJV church. I can also see your point of view albeit I just don't agree one hundred percent. I didn't write the rules God did. So i'm just calling it like I see it.
P.S. you should try give Jesus a try. I promise you won't regret it!
No God didn't write the current rules and I'm not saying this because I am an atheist.
I'm saying this because that new religion called feminism wrote the rules. Read and listen to Rev Jules Gomes.
His speech at the International Conference on Men's Issues (2018) was pretty epic:
As well as his new Article “Feminism is a religion, with its myths of creation, sin and salvation”.
I have heart this argument quite often. The problem is: There are not enough good women out there. In fact: There are not enough women for all men in total as there there are more men then women born and women are more likely to share a high status male.
And there might not stay good either. @h20ho point s that out as well. 30 years ago (yes the problem is that old) Asia was hailed as the place to look for good women.
Problem is: Once the asian women start living in a western society and learn the language they become just as dangerous (as in likely to divorce you) then western women.
Which again points to our society being fundamentally broken.
"They head for countries not traditionally considered ‘the west’. These countries provide refuge through alien cultures and laws they consider to be not quite yet stacked against men. These men are usually the reddest of the red-pilled men. These men see the effects and cannot help but see the writing on the walls and pack up and leave the west. "
Well, actualy objectivly looking at those societies, i dont think they actualy are any better for men. Even saudi arabia for that matter, its not like men are treated any better than - in fact, not nearly as good as - women.
Also, if society collapses, fine, why should i care?
That is like saying, If you own a car or home or property and someone comes and steals it from you, why should you care? As mentioned earlier, if society collapses what then? Is it that you are waiting for it to collapse? What then?
I have lived in Asia for 20 years, neither women or men are really treated any better nor worse for that matter than in the west. However, there is not the restrictive laws here yet. There is no common law. That is huge. Co-habitat and lose nothing and own nothing.
We say do not get married, to not co-habitat. I think it is evident why we say do not marry, but why do we say do not co-habitat? if you co habitat you are subject to involuntary marriage. Would you say do not co-habitat if there were no penalties to co-habitat? With that said, I still do not co-habitat with women here in Asia.
Societies have allways served women tbh. Yes, sometimes that hurts women, too, for example when in china boys are required to provide for their family, girls arent and you may only have one child....
To be honest, with people like Bill Cosby being convicted even though he did nothing wrong EVEN IF we believe the accusations on face value, i dont even stop at no cohabitation. No interaction with women without witnesses. #PenceRules
Yes, you make a great point. With the abominations like #metoo men are putting themselves at risk. Again with that stated, women are not whole-heartedly believed in rape allegations here and are questioned about why there were where and what where they doing there, dressed like, acting like. I agree with this type of questioning to establish the concept of consequences which seems to have been lost in the west. Furthermore, yes, women are up in arms regarding the way police question them when they allege rape and it is only a matter of time before ridiculously callous and dangerous western ideas permeate Asian cultures.