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RE: The @sbdpotato beneficiary experiment
Nope. Won't work. Just as these "experiments" don't work.
I don't know if you read any of my comments on the other posts, but I will try to summarize to summarize them here:
- You only need 65k STEEM to bring SBD price up to one dollar. why instead of this useless project, those behind this experiment creat a fund to keep buy orders of 1 USD on the exchanges, then burn the sbd bought? Its way more effective than polluting the front page.
- You can't beat the market. You can actively manipulate it short-term with enough money, the the real demand is what will define the price/value of an asset.
- The system is working and intended. These efforts to push the price up is nothing more than whales with some big stakes bought on the 2017-2018 hype trying to find a way to reduce losses.
- There will always be steem/sbd entering the system. It's an infinite supply, therefore, the price of these assets will always tend to go down. No matter how much these experiments burn/reduce supply, they will never be enough to decrease the supply.
- Whoever is supporting this is only thinking about price, not value. As any other thing in life, price will follow value. Then instead of doing this bullshit,why not focus the efforts and money to stimulate things that create value (quick list: easier user interface, paying well known creators to join the platform, meanifull ads on the right places, hire a fucking economist that actually know how economic systems work, and a lot more can be done)
- Steem is based on social interaction. If these interactions are shitty, no new people will care about joining the system.
Anyway, this is one of the huge problems around here: most of the people with big stakes don't care about increasing the value of the system, but increasing their own ROI.
And most of them lack basic economic/market knowledge, so we have these shitty useless projects coming around.
You know what could bring real value (and bring the price up)? Support to projects like @utopian-io, killed by the price drop, but the big whales (not all) didn't gave a shit when it died.
This exactly what they're doing. They are buying the SBD on internal market and there are bots that make sure that the SBD price on internal market and other exchanges is the same (because there is profit to be made if price is not the same). Then they are "burning" the SBD by converting it to STEEM, those converted SBDs will never hit exchanges again.
The only SBDs printed are going to @steem.dao and small part of it to few project creators.
Basically what @sbdpotato is doing is limiting the supply of SBDs while creating constant demand for it.
Throwing money to projects that are not self-sustainable won't make them sustainable. Look at steem monsters, they don't need any donations and the steem price have no effect on their success.
Yeah, but why not do it with their own funds if this is what they want? And why their argument is that buyin it in one swoop won't work, but their way of buying slowly will? It's pure bullshit.
They are doing exactly this, but are using reward funds, and pledging for SPS funds to do this.
My whole point is that it is fucking useless. No matter if the price increase happens instantly or over a long period, the price will correct back to where it was, and everything won't be anything more than a really elaborate long term pump and dump scheme, and SBD will still be what it is today: a useless token.
Who do you think will benefit from this? Us, mere minnows that have less than 1k STEEM, or those with millions of steem that can generate hundreds of SBD when the debt ratio goes down again? What do you think it will happen with these SBD generated by these whales when the price go up again?
Then what? repeat the pump and dump process until eternity? It's pure bullshit, and it doesn't add anything of value to the ecosystem.
That makes no fucking sense. How do you think Steem Monsters project was funded? Do you think Aggroed Brought in his own money to the table or he used his rewards as author/witness plus Steemit.inc delegation?
Yes, it's cool that Steem Monsters is still working (i don't play it, but i recognize it as a good project), but this point of Steem it should be about projects that add value (Yes, Steem monsters add value, but this is not the point).
Or you think that everything that is "self-sustainable" around here is adding value?
Or how many of these "self-sustainable" projects are being funded by the ninja-mined stake that is still having a big influence on the blockchain?
So, we add value to the system pledging for funds for a theorical "experiment" that you can prove that it won't work just using basic economics, or actually creating projects that bring true value?
Well, I don't blame them for not wanting to loose their own money.
My point was that steem monsters don't need continuous support / donations to operate (I thought that's what to mean for utopian).
Overall cool comment, I wish I had this much energy this time of year :D
Can't blame anyone for not wanting to lose the money, but some are guilty of hipocrisy.
I am can't say exactly what happened for utopian to shut down, because I wasn't active here at the time. But I can say that it probably started when stinc retracted it's delegation.
But remember clearly that be independent from delegations/donations was part of @elear plans.
But one think I can say for sure: a doubt any of the whales that say that they want steemit to thrive looked after him to help find a way for @utopian-io not go down the drain.
That is value thrown in the garbage.
Because it has a cost that results in a benefit to Steem and not to a privately owned business like Steem Monsters.
Since the benefit is to the platform, it makes perfect sense to use platform/community funds (aka reward pool and/or SPS) to pay for it.
The argument is not about buying it slowly vs buying it quickly, it is buying it repeatedly vs. once.
65k STEEM is not enough to increase SBD to $1 and keep it there. In order to get it to $1 will require a lot more than 65k STEEM worth of SBD to be bought and destroyed (already about 50000 STEEM worth has been bought and the task does not appear to be close to complete). The faster you try to do this, the more it costs due to slippage (you pay more STEEM for the SBD than you get back from converting it), so less STEEM is available on the next cycle and the process slows down overall (less SBD is bought and removed from circulation over time).
"Since the benefit is to the platform(...)"
Please, elaborate that. How is an sbd increase in price be beneficial for the platform as a whole, and not only to this that have enough influence to generate big amounts of sbd at once?
Sbd will still be useless, and have no value.
Again, all this thing is busted mostly because this don't add value to the network. Only have a virtual effect on price.
In the end, doenst matter if this succeed or not (spoiler alert: It won't succeed), sbd will still be useless and have no value.
Again, and again, since I don't know how this is so hard to understand: to increase the price, increase the value. Create projects that make sbd demand be real.
"it is buying it repeatedly vs. once"
Well, just do it again next month. 65 steem is pennies to all witness + whales combined.
"65k STEEM is not enough to increase SBD to $1 and keep it there."
Indeed. Just add 65k more and create a huge buy order at 1 usd price. Easy.
Burn the sbd bought both ways, there.... You reduced around 10% of the supply.
Whatfukinever. No matter Wich way, it's just a pump n dump style of market manipulation. And guess how long people keep their attention on project that manipulate the markets? I will answer for you: not much, until they realize their gain and move on to the next asset.
It doesn't add any fukin value to the network.
A stable value coin has clear value as I explained elsewhere. This is why SBD is used in SPS, because of real world experience trying to run budgets with volatile tokens. It doesn't work. SBD is a clear advantage and a clear value add.
This is circular. More utility and more usage comes from having it maintain a value. It it doesn't already have and maintain a stable value, then it is useless to any project.
No one is going to create a project to create value for SBD in order to restore or strengthen the peg. It has to happen in the other order.
That isn't even close to 10% of the supply. Your math is goofy.
Stable value tokens have their value 'manipulated' by design. In every case it is with some combination of algorithmic agents as well as people responding to incentives. That's what is happening here.
The real problem is that it took so long for anyone to do something, allowing the problem to fester and grow in magnitude (so not it is not so easy to fix, but will take time).
Except that you can't. You have done nothing but post a lot of pure nonsense like the claim that wasting a bunch of money buying up SBD to $1 once would somehow cause it to retain value, when it clearly won't.
But isn't wasting a lot of money buying sbd exactly what they are trying to do here?
Economics 101:
Price is the result of the relation of supply vs demand.
You are creating demand, but fake demand. Unsustainable demand.
Demand come the there is a need for something. Why the fuck do we do with sbd? Nothing.
It doesn't fukin matter how may sbd you buy on any market. It is not real demand. Price will keep crawling back down because THERE IS NO FUKIN REAL DEMAND.
Maybe writing in caps will help this very basic economic concept to go through these hard heads....
And it is clearly wrong. There is SOME demand. I can point to people who have bought large amounts of SBD, even at $1 or higher (or course this is true because every trade has a buyer, and it has traded a lot at $1 or higher).
The price is a balance between supply and demand as you say. If there were NO demand, then the price of SBD literally would be zero. There is SOME demand, so supply has to be reduced to meet it.
When? 2017-18? when the hype about blockchains was at its peak and everyone was buying any cripto that increased price? When haejin was "predicting" that SBD would reach $100 USD?
That is not real demand my friend. It is speculative demand.
Real demand is when people look for an asset because they will have some actual use for it.
Speculative demand is fake demand. People are buying something just because for some reason or another, they believe they will be able to sell it for a higher price.
The price isn't zero yet because there is still speculative demand, mostly related to STEEM, that have some use (power over the Steem Blockchain).
Tell me one thing you can do with SBD besides buy and hope that the price will go up so you can sell with a profit.... Just one...
All throughout Steem's history. There have always been buyers. There have always been people with SBD sitting in their wallets because they want some stability of value.
Yes, and wanting value stability without needing to move off the platform to get it is real use.
Simple. Hold it so that the volatility of your holdings ON THE PLATFORM are reduced (not have to deal with exchanges, fees, KYC paperwork, etc.)
None of what I described above is speculative demand.
The primary value of SBD is that its value is a lot less volatile than STEEM (even in its current not-quite-working-perfectly form, but the more that can be improved, the more value it will have).
this is the only thing you wrote on this whole discussion that make sense.
And BTW, all the above you mentioned are speculative. It's all based on expectation of what MIGHT happen on the future. This is the exact definition of speculation.
See, this thing you created, @bank.sbd makes way more sense.
You are actually creating something useful to be done with SBD. I will check it out later when i have more time.
Thanks :)