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RE: Freedom is what you have when no one is forcing their will on you...
They can only accomplish that by debt, or by forcing others to pay for it. They literally have no other way of doing it.
Actually there is another way. It's called the Alaska Model.
You keep mentioning Alaska. The checks people get paid there yearly is a small fraction, like 1/10th or 1/12th of what would actually be needed to pay for people's basic needs. That's completely ignoring all the other economic problems involved too.
Which all other economic problems involved?
But more importantly why can this model not be applied to a wider range of things, you after all happily sign away your taxes to be merely Tacked onto the Credit side of an account system in effort to offset the odious debt a Private, For Profit, Mostly Foreign Run, Foreign Owned, Corporation.
And you believe that Venezuela was not caused directly because of For Profit Corporations but by pension funds of mom and pop kinda people.
The 1/100th would be a substantial amount in this small of a scope, we are talking a magnitude of difference from that, and you argue that because it's not 12000/year it's not good enough. What a moron, it's not Basic enough for mr I am too much of a coward to actually look into information that would free me from paying more than a third of my efforts to a Private Corporation, you deserve to slave away like an imbecile, you happily clamor for the title of your insolence, for your title of servitude and sub-servitude of the man child (actual idiot) you are presumed.
This is interesting. I gave it a cursory look, but want to give it a more in depth look and let it bounce around in my head for awhile before I commit. Initially the idea of a Tax implies a government. Tax is force. It is not something you can voluntarily choose not to pay without being penalized, thrown in jail, or possibly killed in the process. It is therefore force. It may be coercive force for the most part until resisted, but it is not voluntary and it is force. So having taxation as a component implies a force. It also still IS forcing others to pay for it. So it's not really different. Just a different form of taxation.
Though there is some interesting ideas in the document so like I said I do want to read it in more depth and give it a chance to SINK IN. I may change my mind. ;)
Please do read it. It's collectivist garbage. The basic economic principles still apply. There's no way to get what they want without someone paying for it. They want the "rich" to pay for it. That's the "solution."
They want to take from some to give to others. It really is that simple. I'm "rich" because I worked my ass off all my life to be successful. I don't "deserve" my wealth. All those people around me living in debt and way beyong their means who have never worked hard to learn a valuable skill in the market? Nah, they deserve better. I need to pay them....
Yeah, right.
Collectivist Garbage, classic.
It's "taking from the rich" when in fact it's a Good Faith Agreement.
The solution is guaranteeing a basic income, you'd rather tell the destitute and poor to go get a job or dig in trash, because mom and pop pension and social security is theft.
Yeah, especially since it's all Voluntary, gosh how could you miss that glaringly important contention to "taxation is theft".
You're not rich, you're working for wages, you're an asshole who will gladly remain a slave instead of freeing himself, and ridicule the key as if it's not even worth putting into the lock.
You do, you should take it all with you into your next awesome super fun time adventure of asshole Uno, you will need it to play the victim of "they're forcing me to pay taxes!".
All those people around me living in debt and way beyong their means who have never worked hard to learn a valuable skill in the market? Nah, they deserve better. I need to pay them....
Yeah, way to sympathies with the lame with the uneducated with the destitute, with the unemployed, with all who are suffering because the job market doesn't exist.
Because people are "forcing" rich people to pay. As if!
Yeah, I do intend to read it again today. I suspected that was likely to be the case as soon as it started seeming to head those routes and especially when it started relying upon taxation. Yet, I wanted to give it the benefit of the doubt until I read it and thought about it for awhile as it does have some new perspectives I've not seen before. Thus, I need to let those new ideas sift around for a bit in my head.
I'm glad you've not fallen into the mind trap of ad hominems, nazi scenarios or pedantic nonsense, but the circle jerking is hilarious even so, give that guy some more thumbs up!
You may change your mind? Why are you speaking as if you have the full breadth of knowledge on the subject when you assert this:
Not only do you VOLUNTARILY pay them but you can opt out of paying TAXES, even sales tax and if you so chose to you can even redeem any taxes production might have incurred in your products or services and file them with the IRS and you will be reimbursed.
http://annavonreitz.com/revocation.pdf
Wow, opt out and voluntary, ehh? I'll have to ask my brother-in-law, who's a tax attorney for the IRS, about that. He'll have a hearty laugh.
Instead of Ridiculing the Information and laughing at it, like a fucking asshole, maybe consider what I said and what is presented, especially what I said though, capiche asshole?
Losing the argument, ehh?
Which one, the one where I posit you an asshole for ridiculing information and not considering what is presented or what I said? Or is it the argument you ridiculed, because you hardly made any contention outside the noise effects of a jackass, which you are completely entitled to.
No kidding.
I am not. Yet I do think you may be. Which is why I haven't bothered to respond in depth to you.
You are choosing to interpret in a light that allows you to attack rather than trying to consider what a person may be saying that would not make that a negative.
You see. You painted it as EXACTLY the opposite of why I stated it.
I stated it so I was clear that I can be wrong, and thus like any human might change my mind. ;) I also made it pretty clear there was some new stuff in the document I wanted to think about for awhile.
Yes you stated that that you can be wrong, but it wasn't in regard to what I quoted at all.
How is that not speaking as if you have the full breath of knowledge on the subject?
You start the rigamarole with in no unclear terms Tax is force, defining it with one word. You then go to describe what it is not, and why it means it's force, and then concluding, with quite unclear terms that "so taxation as a component implies force" then to reiterate again that it is force.
There was no "Some taxation is force", or "In some places tax is", there was nothing to give a hint that you were still open on the subject of tax, you exhumed authority in your very words, in the very message and the lack of debate about it or the lack of uncertainty, and hardly can you tell me that you were Open. It's quite important that you realize the small details such as what is it that I was referring to when I said that you are speaking as if.. because you're referring to exactly what I didn't address as there was nothing but agreement on that, but it was poignant to point out that you hardly are "may change your mind" example, but more a "I know what I'm talking when I'm talking about taxes".
There was no "Some taxation is force"...
Why would there need to be?
So to distinguish taxation that is voluntary,why do you think.
I've posted links outlining that yes you can Revoke your Election (voluntary) to pay federal income tax. Equally if you don't want to deal with any taxes, don't engage in commerce and do trade. If you don't want to be presumed to be a citizen, write in RED LETTERS over the front and back of the License RETIRED, so you don't fall into the presumption on "driving" which is a commercial activity, it's basically the same if I set up my own terms for anything from eating to shitting, and if you voluntarily engage under my terms by jumping through all the hoops I set for you, then you have consented not once, not twice but substantial times that unless you say that you don't wish to operate under my terms after going through all the hoops for "approvals" and "licenses" I can presume that all the terms I made up apply to you. When your mother signed you over as a ward of the state (she is the informant on your birth certificate, it says it right there, YOU-ARE-ABANDONED, and from then on someone consented on your behalf, vouching for the State, and when you got a Social Security you Again signed yourself over as a Ward of the State, then when you Register to Vote you did it once more, or when you got your drivers license, when you get your passport, when you file for unemployment, when you collect numerous benefits, pensions, all these things are legally binding you in ways you do not know, and that is why it hurts you and other, because without your consent none of these presumptions would exist. The biggest presumptions are those that you and the rest of the world holds, that the nature of law is to force, and that taxes are forced, when taxes contain within them, even if you claim to be Citizen (ward/slave/indentured servant of the private corporation acting as the "federal" government) there's remedy and cure for it in it's inception, because Law cannot compel performance and for they cannot violate the law of free will. Study what I have said, what I have linked and then come back and tell me why Forced Taxation is what is going on, especially in Alaska with the Trans-Alaskan Pipeline.
I've heard about that from reading Judge Anna's work, she mentioned how that is a tax on the oil for the pipeline if I remember correctly.
Is Judge Anna's work what the sovereign citizen movement come from?
Sovereign Citizen Movement is a farce: Sovereign Citizen is an oxymoron.
Judge Anna's work is not her singular work but the work of numerous people. Furthermore what are you actually asking, is she responsible for the idiots calling themselves Sovereign Citizens
So you either realized this and didn't bother to imply the error or point it out, that the two can never meet, or you didn't and weren't aware that you were implicating her into something that she has no relation to, or is there a third option?
Option 3; Im asking because I don't know anything about it aside from some people talking about it recently. Since you provided the links i am assuming you do know, hence im asking you.
There's no third option, you didn't realize the error and weren't aware that you were implicating her into something that she has no relation to.
All I know about Sovereign Citizen is what I wrote above, I don't know if anything else needs to be said or any more research is needed into something who's title is an Oxymoron.
Do you know where I can find more information about her & her associates work (other than the links you provided), that is not provided by a someone who claims to be a sovereign citizen or from someone trying to smear her work?
Go to her own Facebook. I mean I gave you the horse's mouth.
ok thanks
So you want to free yourself - by stealing from others? Noble.
The oxygen must be pretty thin up there in Alaska. You feeling light headed?