You are viewing a single comment's thread from:
RE: Bloggers: Would you mind sharing 50/50 with those that upvote you?
And here's my solution in case @lukestokes wants to come along and criticize me for offering nothing but objection again, even though this plan, in fact, deserves nothing but objection.
It did make me think about things more and come up with something better, I guess.
"Wants to come along and criticize me" sounds pretty negative. My intention is not get personal or criticize you or anyone in particular. My intention is to move things beyond complaints into solutions. Thanks for contributing ideas.
I don't find the UI curation scenario very plausible. UI beneficiaries have very questionable economics since they discourage the most successful posters from using them. DTube gets away with it (and a lot else) because it is subsidized by the large free stake from misterdelegation.
As a longer term approach I'm not seeing it as viable. A small UI tax aligned with UI operating costs and feature value add might work but not pulling out enough to meaningfully redistribute it.
So you don't think users will leave the whole system because they're giving up 50% but you think they will refuse to use a beneficiary-driven system because they're giving up 50%? How does that make any sense?
If there are actual users who actually want 50% and believe it will give them benefit, this gives them the opportunity. If there aren't, then forcing it on them is clearly a bad idea.
Because it is easy to use a different UI that does basically the same thing minus the 50%. You don't need to leave.
If 50% itself actually benefits users, then they will use it. Right? That's your entire argument on this whole topic.
No that's not really the entire argument. I would refer you back to the @kevinwong and @trafalgar posts. They lay out an argument in greater length and detail then we can sensibly do in comments. I've rehashed some of that in my replies but not all of it.
Let me try to summarize a different way. The goal has nothing to do with how much is paid to individual users and more a matter of system health. It is is to shift the incentives system-wide so that self-voting and vote selling are no longer economically incentivized. There are of course broader long-term goals that that, but that's a minimum starting point because as long as they are so strongly incentivized they result in a race to the bottom where none of your initiatives such as meta-curation, UI-based redistribution, etc. will work because as more and more of the reward pool is drawn away by those broken incentives it then becomes inaccessible to you (and everyone else). That's where we have been heading and the race to the bottom continues.
"Self-voting and vote selling are no longer economically incentivized" so you basically want to remove freedom and implement some communist control system for what people do with their stake. That is what it sounds like. Just skip that idea. Let people have their freedom. People invested let them use their stake freely. If people want to self vote let them do it. As long as not something goes crazy. There are always extremes.
Okay so you look at people self vote. But you are completely missing the other side of how many that gives in a selfless way without any ROI focus every single second. You are basically looking at human nature and want to try to fix it. Selfish people will be selfish in any system you do. People reflect themselves. I see love and beauty on Steem Blockchain since I follow selfless people.
It's not the system we are dealing with. It's human nature. Most value for let's say dtube video creators is not coming from high Stake holders. They want to leech 50% off the big value that dtube gives to real content creators. Since the Steem share out was a mess in 2016 it will take 5 years to make things more balanced to real content creators. The real truth is majority of people are just not good content creators and never will be. So they are confused about their role here. So they want to leech 50% from people that are amazing.
I have a better solution before any radical changes are being done. First people need to wait for a niche + community system. Where people do solid content for specific niches. So everyone get's what they want. A moderator system for specific niches would be good. Narrative is trying this. At the moment most people are just derping around creating whatever. People that wants to thrive needs to find their niche and use a solid content strategy.
Radical changes ---> Usually someone is unhappy in life. Radically change something will never work. Most high Stake holders needs to find a project or something they can invest their life into. Instead of trying to leech off of content creators. Content creators have more leverage than Stake holders in the long run. Since they have limitless supply of original content.
How much comes from misterdelegation
There are a few main sources exactly. There is not enough high Stake holders for a 50/50 system. The leverage is already concentrated. The majority is content creators. Not a few select Stake holders. That will say any change would only favour a minority. Not the majority of content creators.
Currently @nathanmars is the person that has done the most to empower people after @misterdelegation
Empower 1000 accounts with 10,000 SP each would only take 10 million SP. But it's up to Steemit Inc how they want to do all of that. But 1000 real content creators would move waters. You have a middle class fixed instantly with that. STEEM sitting idle is an opportunity cost.
The more hands it's in the more upvotes --> The more it will make moves in the whole Internet. 1000 empowered creators. Leverage content creators is the biggest leverage you can have. Individual high level stake holders can never do this. Needs to come from higher ups.
In end it comes down to get STEEM into people that are the best to leverage it into higher possibilities with proof-of-brain. And not all are the same in their skills to leverage stuff. Some people can make 1 million people to follow them. So some are amazing at leverage. Others not.
I will strongly disagree with that. There are literally hundreds of users here building projects because we believe that we have a path to success. I am 100% confident that mine will be fine if you stop attacking it.
The reward pool that matters cannot be "drawn away" but it can be driven away. It is the stake that is in the hands of the users who participate here because they want to participate here, and as long as that subset of the reward pool continues to grow, what happens to the rest of it really doesn't matter.
Those users should be supported, not attacked. You're a much larger threat to that right now than anything else.
They have nothing to lose! If you are relying on their votes to support your projects, they will be no worse off because they would simply get higher curation rewards on their own votes! If they don't want that reward, they can donate it back to your projects. What is the problem? (Another way of looking at it: Those supporting voters will see their stake and influence grow as those higher curation rewards increase their SP. Again, this does not seem like something which should concern you.)
In reality I strongly suspect that you are relying on more stakeholder votes than just a closed subcommunity, and you will indeed see (and are seeing) rewards being drawn away. (Actually this can happen anyway, despite your claims otherwise, by increased external vote power participation in the pool.)
Either that or you are somehow benefiting from self voting and/or vote selling and your objections are all based on disguised self-interest. I didn't want to think that but your apparent unwillingness to accept obvious economic arguments must call to mind the famous quote:
It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it -Upton Sinclair
But that's not an accusation, I don't know. Your attitude on this is oddly closed minded, that is all.
The problem, as I keep trying to explain, is that you are forcing me to distribute less value to others and thus have less impact on the rest of the system. It's exactly the opposite of your points above. I don't want more money. I don't want my project to make more money. That is not its goal. It explicitly does not ask for support from its users, and until recently we haven't gotten much from outside stakeholders either. (And apart from Curie Support the outside votes are from a few minnows.) It is me spending my money to have influence on the future stake distribution on this platform. Me getting more money when my users get less is a hindrance.
I'm happy to list my interests in those areas if you'd like. I'm not here hiding anything. They aren't significant but really none of my financial stake on Steem is significant. I've spent more on SM than I ever have on any non-gambling game, I guess maybe that counts, relatively.
I think what you're failing to understand here is that my interest in Steem is almost entirely non-financial. So you can make all the financial arguments you want and it isn't going to make much of a difference. As long as you're a threat to my non-financial goals - and you are, look around at all of the users this proposal is upsetting, it's hardly just me - you could be handing me hundred-dollar bills and it wouldn't matter.
When you hyper-prioritize economics you're attacking everyone who has an extrinsic reason to be here, and those are precisely the users who are of highest value in both the short and the long term.