RE: Star Trek Is Pretty Much North Korea In Space
The hypothetical society in Star Trek was defined in the show as being beyond material want. Using the definition of socialism here is non-sensical: "means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole." Star Trek had no means of production, distribution or exchange. You simply said "Replicator: Chicken Soup" or "Replicator: Jaguar XK8" and you had it. There was no means of production, thus no socialism.
All the resources of Star Trek were controlled from the united government of earth. There were no private entiries or corporations. That's the definition of socialism. The replicator is more like a metaphor here in the larger content.
This is simply not true. There are tons of respected scientists, artists, merchants and other character in Star Trek. Ben Sisko's own son became a famed author. Soong was a famed robotocist. This premise is provably false. I'd concede that in the original show only, there was a lesser focus on non-officer, but there were still plenty of "respected" scientists.
They all work for the government and the greatest aspiration was to join one of the Space ships crews. It is pointed out in the show several times. Even if they joined missions, they were ranked accordingly. The highest authority of earth was the military assemply. Another textbook national socialism btw.
Ultimately, I don't think Star Trek can be a very useful hypothetical scenario, because some of the premises are so far removed from our reality - particularly, the unlimited energy, unlimited materials one.
The "unlimited material" factor is rather no relevant. It could be equal rashings.
Again, I watched the show several times. You just want to pick up debates because you are still sour from the last time. You can keep going on though and I can bring more evidence.
Again, think before you reply to my threads. Don't let your emotions get the best of you. It shows.
OK, I see what you are trying to say. But the inaccuracies in the facts from the show are holding you back.
"All the resources of Star Trek were controlled from the united government of earth."
This isn't really true. Every private citizen had their own access to free power. Yes, that was maintained by the government, as you noted, but there was no taxation. It was just given away due to the extremely low cost of producing power. Basically, the premise of the Star Trek society was that huge advances in energy generation created the freest society ever known. It was so easy to generate power, people would just do it privately if the government ever messed with it.
"They all work for the government and the greatest aspiration was to join one of the Space ships crews. It is pointed out in the show several times. Even if they joined missions, they were ranked accordingly."
Ok, this isn't true either, but I know why you may think so. It often was true. Many scientists, diplomats, etc would join for missions and they would often be given acting ranks. But, it is provably false that they all were. I already gave several examples of characters who were not, like Noonien Soong. They were private individuals pursuing their own interest with absolutely no government interference or directive.
Now, the government could have cut the power, sure. They had the capability to interfere. But in the Star Trek hypothetical, they rarely did (few interesting exceptions by rebels in DS9).
"Again, I watched the show several times. You just want to pick up debates because you are still sour from the last time. You can keep going on though and I can bring more evidence.
Again, think before you reply to my threads. Don't let your emotions get the best of you. It shows."
You are literally projecting onto me exactly what you are doing. The entire comment thread went against you last time, because you were wrong and relying on falsehood and fallacy, as well as appealing to the authority of non-credible sources with questionable leanings.
You are the one who has, yet again, resorted to ad hominem (implying I was stupid in the other thread). You are the one arguing from emotion, while I cite fact after fact that you dodge and do not dispute.
If all members of the ST universe work for the government, then explain how Jake Sisko becomes a famous independent author? That is a fact in the show, and the two are incompatible.
Stop projecting your faults onto me.
A free self sustaining system doesn't need a government. Also it was noted in a couple of episodes that some inhabitants were depressed since there was nothing to do. Basically they were all more or less on welfare and they wanted to escape by joining the military.
Soong was disgraced and flet away after he underdelivered. He was hiding in a colony. After he was rescued he wan't given a status due to his complicated past. But please, do bring another example. Let's see how many exceptions to the rule you can find :) .
not a single one. In fact you started watering down your arguments with "not entirely true". Don't worry though. Keep going, keep going..
He was the son of the Captain on a remote space station that had a questioning body of governance to begin with. Nepotism for one thrived in there and it was the main point for 2 seasons.
anything else sunshine?
There are literally hundreds of examples.
Look for yourself, there are thousands in the list, only some are not officers:
http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Humans
I disagree that the citizens were all on welfare by default. I don't know how you can call near unlimited abundance welfare. If boredom is the complaint, than a repressive regime is not the problem.
How many people do people in NK do you think would cite "boredom" as their #1 problem? I'm betting not many, which would point out another key difference between them, based on your own facts.
PS - Late update on this reply, mispasted a link.
it was since it was made known on earth that the highest value, the only value that existed was that of exploration. They only way to get it was through excellency in a given area and after through the military.
:)
never made that parallelism. Nonetheless, we can't know how many are bored in NK. considering the massive government leeching system ..i bet many.
it was since it was made known on earth that the highest value, the only value that existed was that of exploration.
Oh, ok, so before it was "working for the military", now you've moved the goalposts to "exploration". Shall I remind you of this quote of yours?
""there was no value in people's ability other than moving ranks in the military."
Further debate with you is pointless. Your antics are embarrassing.
it is literally the same thing. the same exact thing.
Fix for my mistaken previous citation:
I believe this qualifies as a civilian, non academy, original Star Trek. Just doing his own thing (we'll ignore he was a bad guy). Note that it says he was a civilian, which means he did not enter the academy.
http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Tristan_Adams
"Dr. Tristan Adams was a male Human civilian in the 23rd century. He was a psychologist and director of the Tantalus Penal Colony in 2266.
Starting around 2246, Adams began work that revolutionized prisons and the treatment of prisoners. His theories transformed prisons from cages into clean, decent hospitals for sick minds. Captain James T. Kirk believed Adams' work had done more than the rest of Humanity had done in the previous forty centuries."
You are picking up civilians from space stations or earth. They don't count. Not everybody was military. Everybody was rules by military..sigh. How many times do i need to point this out?