What’s the truth? And how bad do you wanna know?
Are you a good feminist? Or a bad feminist?
A few days back I learned about Youtube personality Laci Green. She has built a young, hip intersectional feminist empire. But recently, there’s been drama! She’s been accused of taking the Red Pill and has fallen out of grace with some.
Okay, but what does taking the Red Pill mean? And, did she really do it? First, let’s get her take on it!
Here’s what one journalist at AffinityMagazine had to say:
In case you haven’t heard, popular YouTube feminist Laci Green has taken the red pill. “Taking the red pill” refers to the choice faced by Neo in The Matrix, where the red pill represents freedom and knowledge and the blue pill represents blissful ignorance. Laci has finally woken up to the “toxicity of feminism and SJW culture” and has decided to pave her own way for herself and the whole feminist movement. It all started with this video. She returned from her hiatus and stated she wanted to open “debate and critical analysis” between feminists and the “ANTI’s” that seem to plague the YouTube sphere. She believes that “(SJWs) heightened sensitivity is leading to censorship (of ANTIs) by making ideas too taboo to talk about” and that our apparent sensitivity makes these “poor, censored voices more sympathetic” to the hateful views that they hold.”
Another writer at The Establishment wrote:
Her influence in this space has been considerable — with 1.5 million subscribers on her YouTube channel, a lot of people listen to what Green has to say. Last year, she was even named one of the 30 most influential people on the internet by Time. All of which makes her recent turn deeply troubling. In late May, seemingly out of the blue, Green dramatically shifted her tone on harassment. Where once she supported the abused, she suddenly began questioning why there’s “more than two genders” and arguing that “both sides of the argument are valid” for everything from racism to transphobia to misogyny. In a stunning example of her newfound hypocrisy, she called feminist YouTuber and fellow member of her anti-harassment Facebook group Kat Blaque a “sociopath.”
To be honest, I’m seeing both good and reactive reporting (which I’m not including) on this story. It makes me think about how social justice communities hold each other accountable.
Last year, a local trans activist here in Seattle, Frances Lee, released a few articles that blew up in our local circles. These articles had to do with how social justice advocates work with each other, engage new communities, and create welcoming space--and they opened up a much-needed dialogue among activists vying amongst themselves to be the most pure:
There is an underlying current of fear in my activist communities, and it is separate from the daily fear of police brutality, eviction, discrimination, and street harassment. It is the fear of appearing impure. Social death follows when being labeled a “bad” activist or simply “problematic” enough times. I’ve had countless hushed conversations with friends about this anxiety and how it has led us to refrain from participation in activist events, conversations, and spaces because we feel inadequately radical. I actually don’t prefer to call myself an activist, because I don’t fit the traditional mold of the public figure marching in the streets and interrupting business as usual. When I was a Christian, all I could think about was being good, showing goodness, and proving to my parents and my spiritual leaders that I was on the right path to God. All the while, I believed I would never be good enough, so I had to strain for the rest of my life toward an impossible destination of perfection.
Another quote from Frances Lee that talks about how advocates communicate:
Callout culture. The quest for purity. Privilege theory taken to extremes. I’ve observed some of these questionable patterns in my activist communities over the past several years. As an activist, I stand with others against white supremacy, anti-blackness, cisheteropatriarchy, capitalism, and imperialism. I am queer, trans, Chinese American, middle class, and able-bodied. Holding these identities scattered across the spectrum of privilege, I have done my best to find my place in the movement, while educating myself on social justice issues to the best of my ability. But after witnessing countless people be ruthlessly torn apart in community for their mistakes and missteps, I started to fear my own comrades.
I’ll admit, I see what Frances is talking about often. I work with nonprofits and organizations that are constantly in a process of evaluating their historically white, male-led institution through an equity lens. Once folks have been doing the work for awhile they get excited, passionate, and fired up. They start to think “Wow! I’ve got it, I’m fighting the good fight, and I can’t believe everyone else isn’t doing it to!”. Then the callouts begin--when so often there is work to do much closer to home.
As I’ve read more and more about Laci Green, I’m not sure where I stand. I think the issue is messy, af.
I also think there is value in knowing both sides of any issue. Laci says that her focus is facing issues head-on with direct conversation. I like that.
I’m not afraid to talk to someone who doesn’t agree with me. I’m also not here to preach to the choir, because at the end of the day America didn’t elect Trump because all of us social justice advocates did our job. Nope. We failed. We f*cked it up.
Now our job is to go out there and have those uncomfortable conversations we might not want to have with people who might deeply disagree with us. We have to get really, really good at having them...so that we can have a different future ahead of us in 3 years. So, while I don’t know if I can stand behind everything Laci has ever said or done, I hope her situation prompts us to examine who we are calling out and why we’re so nervous about engaging in direct debate. After all, you can’t please everyone, no matter who you are.
*Hi friend! I’m new here and I’ll be using steemit to share thoughts on artistic practice, arts opportunities, equity, my personal projects, and other fun things happening in my world (like hiking!). Check out these pics of a snowshoe trip up a glacier! See you around! -- @lilyraabe
What I've found most fascinating about Laci and the circumstances surrounding her is the willingness (or lack thereof) of people to talk to her. To debate. I hold the (unfortunately unpopular) opinion that debate and talking is the best disinfectant against toxic ideas. If you can listen to an opposing viewpoint, you can dismantle it, prove it's invalid, and then you have an opportunity to prove what you believe is right.
Of course, this also means that your own ideals may be dismantled before your very eyes. But if your truths are the toxic or wrong ones, isn't that for the best?
I see far too many posts from people who openly oppose Laci, but when an opportunity to debate arises, they back out for "giving a voice to toxic people" and "allowing trolls to reign." Such rhetoric only furthers the divide and solves nothing.
It's why I still say I'm willing to sit down and talk, even if I disagree with the person, vehemently. Someone has to take the first step, you know?
@ddrfr33k, I appreciate your perspective and you've stated it so intelligently!
Thank you so much for stopping by and adding this perspective. To be fair, I think I share most of it, so it’s an easy comment to interact with. ;)
I’ve never seen the harm in debate. I think honest, fair, educated debate helps us get to the bottom of a lot of issues. A one-sided view of things (even if it’s your side!) doesn’t really help you situate yourself, or the issue, in context of the entire world and intersectional politics. Knowledge is power. And hopefully power leads to change.
If you ever do a podcast or video blog or whatever, and want another perspective, I'm willing to join in. The only thing I ask is for respect and a willingness to listen, which will be given in kind.
I’m prettyyyy new to this steemit thing so video blogging and the like is out of my scope (for now!) but I’ll keep this in mind. Appreciate your comments! :)
One quick unrelated question: No relation to the actress from American Horror Story, is there?
Haha, no, but you’d be surprised how often I get that!
You got a 2.38% upvote from @upmewhale courtesy of @lilyraabe!
I'm tired right now, but I think the problem is that Lacy doesn't realize that her work has been entirely empowering for many people who have been told and still will be told by most of US society (let alone all around the world) that they are dirty, bad, ugly, sick etc.. When someone that has been fighting for women says "well they are just too sensitive and thats why we can't debate" it feels not only like a knife in the back but a wholly unproductive one.
If she is saying that feminism is toxic, then she isn't debating on any real terms. She's giving a stage to anti-fems.
ANd lets be really really. Anti-fems can talk everywhere. To say that they are being silenced is insane. The president is anti-feminist. There are entire news stations that are anti-feminist.
Yes, there are indie stations open to or devoted to uplifting feminist voices and specifically women of color and or lgbt++
But these are not the major industries.
To me its not about being good or bad here.
Lacy Green has thrown all of her followers in the trash bin.
It was really a bummer but well, she has to do what she has to do. But I am not interested in listening to "debates" in which people are not "destroying my ideology" but infact destroying my entire being. If you want to debate, you first have to come to the table. Anti-fems do not come to the table, or else they wouldn't be anti-fems. they'd just be people with opinions about things of which I may or may not agree.
These are people who have made it their mission to HATE ME and people like me, for having a strong voice, for fighting for what I believe in, for not being so easily typcasted, for giving a shit about the rights of others.. and on and on...
Like I said, its not about being good or bad.. because its not that easy to stray from societal norms even when you naturally go against them. But a matter of where I put my energy.
I intend to put my energy on uplifting those who struggle against the unfairly white male dominated society and aim towards a greater understanding and appreciation of those who fully intend to offer the same to me. I am ever thankful that such humans exist.
Hey! First off, thanks for responding and dropping this opinion in the thread. This very opinion is why I sad the situation is sticky as f*ck. I think this point you make really gets to the heart of it:
She’s broken trust with her community and offered no explanation in advance. She didn’t explain what she was doing or get buy-in. I can only imagine how it felt like a knife to many.
In general, it seems that she is trying to open debate with Anti-fems who are willing to come to the table to debate against an educated, opinionated awesome feminist. To be honest, I don’t get to see that very often. I would love to see our president in conversation with someone like bell hooks. Boy bye. I’d like to see a platform where toxic ideas can be debunked with educated, informed fact about social issues.
I also realize that that’s not the work of everyone. Personally, and I can only speak for me, I’m really interested in structural change in tandem with personal transformation. I can understand not wanting to deal with toxicity, but I’ve made the decision for myself to do so in the hopes that I can change the mind of even 1% of the people I engage with. It takes a lot of energy. Not everyone has that kind of energy to spare.
Laci had created a safe, inclusive space. Now other views are allowed in, and she didn’t tell anyone what she was planning. She broke trust. That’s not cool.
Again, thanks for stopping by and talking about it. Your comments, and the other stories I’ve read, really make me think. :)
You are most wrlcome and of course, same. We are all on the "feminist spectrum" imo or in the feminist "tree" there is no "good" or "bad" however, how our most vocal leaders treat each other determines our success. My approach is to support men who respect me at least enough to actually debate from aplace of love. But as i always say, everyone is innocent until proven asshat. And i give second and third chances for those who honestly seem hurt and confused.
In this case, she really messed up. In fact i stopped watching her. Not because of the debates, but because she was clearly drinking some sellout koolaid.
To me shes just anpther tv personality now. I dont consider her a scholar. Or truly an advocaye gor women but it doesn't matter because we arent dependant on each other.
For you and I , i think it will be a journey. And i hope we get to know each other more. Im gonna encourage you to get ginabot notifications. We can discuss #feminism and the number of ppl who come on our pages simply to tear us down.
Thanks for the thoughtfulness! I think I have ginabot stuff already on Discord...but you can also find me in #teamgirlpowa and #steemsugars. :)
P.S. I think your point to her being a tv personality--and more effected by her celebrity status or lack thereof--is probably a big part of this story!
@lilyraabe i guess its a good thing that i founded #teamgirlpowa then :P ;)
One thing I've noticed about YouTube in general is, no matter the subject matter, you have many types of people who post content, such as Laci, who "backpedal" somewhat either due to outside pressure or just the self-evolution of their personal views taking drastic turns they wouldn't have even realized themselves going down before. Time can change people.
Speaking of time, however, social media, in my opinion, leads to excitability. The rush of getting your opinion out to the world as quickly as possible, and sometimes in haste. Fully formulated, well thought out positions are probably rare at best nowadays.
Time can definitely change people--here’s hoping that folks remain self-aware enough to catch themselves when they’re not changing for the better and address it sooner than later! It’s pretty interesting watching how this story has played out,
I totally agree with you about social media. I’ve seen people listen to each other and come to understanding much faster when they are actually in a room together.
I think it's very important to open up dialogue and have those uncomfortable conversations! I am all about equality, and as a white male, I have a limited experience with social oppression. Sure, we are all oppressed to a degree in this society, but it's important to listen to others and see from other perspectives. As usual, great post! Look forward to more entries
Hey! Thanks for stopping by and commenting. :) I’d go on at some length--but we already talked about this a lot on Discord. Thanks for sharing your thoughts and keepin’ on being awesome.
Anytime! I love interesting articles like this and also enjoy talking about the issues ;)
Dear woman, I'm appreciating you more and more with every post. I only regret that I didn't see this soon enough to give you a giant upvote for it and I certainly would have resteemed.
So many important issues raised here and see and even feel the fear of being chastised for speaking up or out. Maybe I'll do it wrong, get it wrong, not express my ideas clearly enough so they'll be completely misunderstood or even if they are expressed well they'll be misunderstood or attacked anyway.
What I believe in my heart of hearts is that we all need room, latitude, forgiveness, support and honest dialogue so that we can grow. We all have internalized sexism, racism, classism that we're all trying to work through and shutting up about our process isn't always the best scenario. Yes not everything needs to be shared with everyone, but when we do choose to share, disagreement is fine, attacks not fine. Yes we all have passion and hurt and all kinds of feelings that arise when we disagree, but process one's feelings and THEN respond with care!
I like to think of Sarah Silverman's compassionate response to her troll and the incredible healing and connection that resulted. And I desperately want all of us to be able to speak so we can grow which means that we will make mistakes and for there to be some benefit of the doubt, some seeing the spirit of who someone is rather than attacking one action.
In any case, thank you for your thoughtful post!
Wow, thank you so much for this beautifully written post! What you say there “disagreements are fine, attacks are not” is SO true. I think that’s the root of most of it, people don’t know how to disagree without attacking. We’re so afraid of what it means when people hold different truths inside (and of course, sometimes those truths are indeed quite harmful and need to change). Still, we can’t change anything unless we can talk about it!
exactly -
It does me a world of good to read these kinds of articles and to know other women like you who are intelligent, clear thinking and courageous!