Did you not see the flags from @dan? I assure you I am not making it up!
Many of those accounts you note upvotes from are likely the same person, or his bots, as @berniesanders.
"Is this what a Sybil attack (or does this count as defense?) looks like?"
Yes, and yes. @berniesanders is able to extract rewards from the pool to increase his own holdings of SP through selfvotes. I consider this a 'Slowride' Sybil attack, as it slowly builds SP by extracting it from the rewards pool (it is an attack on Steemit as it decreases the rewards available through nominal curation). Since he has spread his SP into various accounts, he does so from those accounts as well, however, I am unaware that in normal circumstances he does so.
In this case, he is countering the flags @dan has thrown at him, so it is defensive.
@berniesanders does not hold enough SP to control the majority of the witnesses, which would be a 'true' Sybil attack on Steemit. His stake would be likely to be necessary to such an attack, though, so Sybil attacker(s) would seek to buy his, @dan's, @ned's, and etc., in the attempt to acquire enough SP to control the witnesses, and thus the code that Steemit runs.
I hope to demonstrate nominal patience so that 'it' is properly done. I far prefer things well done, if rare, to things common, and cheap. Data Flowers FTW!
Edit: added exposition of 'Slowride' Sybil attack.
You need not assure me @valued-customer. I could see that the up-votes were closely grouped and that they pushed whatever votes prior to them further back in history.
I am surprised that such can occur and be gotten away with in broad daylight. It gives me cause to pause and think.
Let us suppose that a sybil-conducive mass-multi-account situation comes about and is detected.
Then what?
If there is no consensus on what is to be done about such accounts (such as an ultimatum to transfer their SP to another account by a certain date as the account is to be suspended(with an agreed process of appeal for legitimate accounts mistaken for such (having an unfortunately similar name for instance)))...
...then detection will be simply like knowing you are going to get burgled but have been told that you cannot interfere.
Thank you for your patience @valued-customer. It shall be rewarded in quality.
StInc is itself a highly coordinated Sybil attack.... It's a scam and always been a scam... I have a detailed timeline I'm working on that I will be posting on the new chain that's in creation and probably on this one as well though I'm sure they'll bury it with downvotes in the first few minutes.... so much for "censorship resistant". That can't be true when the premine was manipulated to ensure that there was centralized control... https://decentralize.today/the-ugly-truth-behind-steemit-1a525f5e156
I reckon that simply having the SP to conduct the attack is no crime. There is no rule or prior sentiment against it. As most of the Steem that exists was mined before Steemit was opened to the public, the holders of it would become quite wealthy by purveying it to the purchaser(s).
Also, since they would have, at that point, sold off the majority (at least) of their Steem, they would no longer be whales, or even on Steemit, so may no longer care.
It is not necessary that a single party undertake control in order for that control to occur. Conspiracies and collusion are practically the order of business when hostile takeovers are conducted, and pooling of capital is no novel technique. The fact is that the control IS presently undertaken through holdings of SP by voters for witnesses. Since, by and large, the accounts holding that SP are the founders of Steem and Steemit, that isn't an attack at all, but management. Also, despite a certain congruence of belief and interests, there is no little divergence of views amongst those account holders (as the mutual flaggotry shows).
So, the only real means the rest of us might have to ascertain that a Sybil attack has been conducted is a) the sudden replacement of code by witnesses, most likely preceded by a wholesale replacement of witnesses by new witnesses, many likely to be new to Steemit, and b) the end of the powerdown period, which the attackers may find desirable so that they can immediately extract their Steem after making the changes to the code necessary to kill or neuter Steemit.
Those most likely to conduct such investment to harm Steemit are it's competitors with deep pockets, such as Zuckerberg, Schmidt, Soros, et al...
They will also probably make some changes that reflect their interests, such as ending free speech by making the blockchain less permanent, setting up some sort of centralized control over content insertion, etc., and may also not kill Steemit but seek to use it (it's success will be the only reason they'd find it beneficial to assume control of, IMHO).
It's likely we'd never know such an attack was being undertaken in advance, as there are many ways of xferring Steem surreptitiously. Perhaps the powering down of substantial SP would predate an attack, but accounts can be xferred, and simply convinced to vote as desired, too, so Steem might never even change hands in the conduct of such an attack.
There is but one way to defend against such an attack, and that is decentralization of VP. Presently concentrating wealth is the means of concentrating VP and this is what potentiates this attack vector. Concentrating wealth is perhaps the most singular feature of capitalism, so this is not some novel technology that would need to be developed to permit a Sybil attack on Steemit.
That one way I have long advocated, and it is to no longer weight VP by SP. The SEC may be able to conduct such a concentration of SP by means other than purchase, and the desecuritization of Steem would also preclude that attack vector.
Sorry if this is a bit obtuse. Up late and early, and the meds/coffee haven't really kicked in yet =p
You show a remarkable lack of knowledge of what's been happening on steemit.... The premine was manipulated to begin with to assure a centralized control that has been abused the whole time.
I am not unaware of these facts. Neither do I disagree with you that the mined stakes have been used to centralize control of Steemit.
Most ppl on Steemit don't know these things, and many of my posts are intended to broaden the understanding of this information across the user base of Steemit.
While I advocate the only means of decentralizing Steemit of which I am aware, ending the weighting of VP by SP, I don't expect Steemit to make this happen, precisely because that centralization is a feature I believe the devs wanted, rather than a flaw or bug.
A point I try to drive home is that Steemit is currently the sole platform in it's space, but that is very temporary. In fact I have direct knowledge of Calibrae, and am told of other forks of the platform that are being developed presently.
If Steemit doesn't fix these problems, then competition will.
Is that a Tardigrade (a water bear) in your avatar? Very cool if so!
Followed for more rabble rousing and criticism, which you seem to provide. Thanks for that!
In light of very recent responses here - I am rethinking reposting.
If Steemit truly is flawed at its core as suggested then the logical progression is to become the competition... Thats how I work (I'm used to providing suggestions - but only to those in whom I have confidence).
Do not worry though. I've already proceeded with the rewrite (its not quite quarter-done as I started earlier this evening and will likely take breaks to ensure a continuous stream here) - and would be happy to communicate with you directly. Look up my LI profile. My contact email is very easy to find. ^_^
Bonus: I've been thinking of alternative currency and political models before such was cool (1995).
I still have no idea about blockchain though - and it seems to be a technology that I'd want to incorporate.
I'm glad you brought up the point that steemit is CURRENTLY the sole platform in it's space. I am the one working on what is not a fork as that would import balances and the problem would persist. What I will be releasing shortly will basically be a steem clone without the premine oligarchy. I was going to improve it more but I feel it's better to be more timely with the release and improve over time than try to perfect an inherently flawed system. Meanwhile, me and my good friend Loki will be working on Calibrae as well as other systems that will improve systems even further. My avatar is a lightning version of a fire breathing walrus but Tardigrades are cool too. I don't post on this chain anymore to not present an attack surface but if you want rabble rousing and criticism read my comments. Good to meet you and if you have any coding or other skills you might be someone we want on one of our many teams for the multiple projects we are creating.
@akrid is on it ^
Just look at @berniesander's profile, and you will see many flags from @dan.
What I see when I look at his profile... is a LOT of accounts upvoting by 10% - many with the 'nextgencrypto' or similar monicker.
Is this what a Sybil attack (or does this count as defense?) looks like?
(P.S. I will get around to 'it' - I just want to do it right. ^_^)
Did you not see the flags from @dan? I assure you I am not making it up!
Many of those accounts you note upvotes from are likely the same person, or his bots, as @berniesanders.
Yes, and yes. @berniesanders is able to extract rewards from the pool to increase his own holdings of SP through selfvotes. I consider this a 'Slowride' Sybil attack, as it slowly builds SP by extracting it from the rewards pool (it is an attack on Steemit as it decreases the rewards available through nominal curation). Since he has spread his SP into various accounts, he does so from those accounts as well, however, I am unaware that in normal circumstances he does so.
In this case, he is countering the flags @dan has thrown at him, so it is defensive.
@berniesanders does not hold enough SP to control the majority of the witnesses, which would be a 'true' Sybil attack on Steemit. His stake would be likely to be necessary to such an attack, though, so Sybil attacker(s) would seek to buy his, @dan's, @ned's, and etc., in the attempt to acquire enough SP to control the witnesses, and thus the code that Steemit runs.
I hope to demonstrate nominal patience so that 'it' is properly done. I far prefer things well done, if rare, to things common, and cheap. Data Flowers FTW!
Edit: added exposition of 'Slowride' Sybil attack.
You need not assure me @valued-customer. I could see that the up-votes were closely grouped and that they pushed whatever votes prior to them further back in history.
I am surprised that such can occur and be gotten away with in broad daylight. It gives me cause to pause and think.
Let us suppose that a sybil-conducive mass-multi-account situation comes about and is detected.
Then what?
If there is no consensus on what is to be done about such accounts (such as an ultimatum to transfer their SP to another account by a certain date as the account is to be suspended(with an agreed process of appeal for legitimate accounts mistaken for such (having an unfortunately similar name for instance)))...
...then detection will be simply like knowing you are going to get burgled but have been told that you cannot interfere.
Thank you for your patience @valued-customer. It shall be rewarded in quality.
StInc is itself a highly coordinated Sybil attack.... It's a scam and always been a scam... I have a detailed timeline I'm working on that I will be posting on the new chain that's in creation and probably on this one as well though I'm sure they'll bury it with downvotes in the first few minutes.... so much for "censorship resistant". That can't be true when the premine was manipulated to ensure that there was centralized control... https://decentralize.today/the-ugly-truth-behind-steemit-1a525f5e156
I reckon that simply having the SP to conduct the attack is no crime. There is no rule or prior sentiment against it. As most of the Steem that exists was mined before Steemit was opened to the public, the holders of it would become quite wealthy by purveying it to the purchaser(s).
Also, since they would have, at that point, sold off the majority (at least) of their Steem, they would no longer be whales, or even on Steemit, so may no longer care.
It is not necessary that a single party undertake control in order for that control to occur. Conspiracies and collusion are practically the order of business when hostile takeovers are conducted, and pooling of capital is no novel technique. The fact is that the control IS presently undertaken through holdings of SP by voters for witnesses. Since, by and large, the accounts holding that SP are the founders of Steem and Steemit, that isn't an attack at all, but management. Also, despite a certain congruence of belief and interests, there is no little divergence of views amongst those account holders (as the mutual flaggotry shows).
So, the only real means the rest of us might have to ascertain that a Sybil attack has been conducted is a) the sudden replacement of code by witnesses, most likely preceded by a wholesale replacement of witnesses by new witnesses, many likely to be new to Steemit, and b) the end of the powerdown period, which the attackers may find desirable so that they can immediately extract their Steem after making the changes to the code necessary to kill or neuter Steemit.
Those most likely to conduct such investment to harm Steemit are it's competitors with deep pockets, such as Zuckerberg, Schmidt, Soros, et al...
They will also probably make some changes that reflect their interests, such as ending free speech by making the blockchain less permanent, setting up some sort of centralized control over content insertion, etc., and may also not kill Steemit but seek to use it (it's success will be the only reason they'd find it beneficial to assume control of, IMHO).
It's likely we'd never know such an attack was being undertaken in advance, as there are many ways of xferring Steem surreptitiously. Perhaps the powering down of substantial SP would predate an attack, but accounts can be xferred, and simply convinced to vote as desired, too, so Steem might never even change hands in the conduct of such an attack.
There is but one way to defend against such an attack, and that is decentralization of VP. Presently concentrating wealth is the means of concentrating VP and this is what potentiates this attack vector. Concentrating wealth is perhaps the most singular feature of capitalism, so this is not some novel technology that would need to be developed to permit a Sybil attack on Steemit.
That one way I have long advocated, and it is to no longer weight VP by SP. The SEC may be able to conduct such a concentration of SP by means other than purchase, and the desecuritization of Steem would also preclude that attack vector.
Sorry if this is a bit obtuse. Up late and early, and the meds/coffee haven't really kicked in yet =p
You show a remarkable lack of knowledge of what's been happening on steemit.... The premine was manipulated to begin with to assure a centralized control that has been abused the whole time.
I am not unaware of these facts. Neither do I disagree with you that the mined stakes have been used to centralize control of Steemit.
Most ppl on Steemit don't know these things, and many of my posts are intended to broaden the understanding of this information across the user base of Steemit.
While I advocate the only means of decentralizing Steemit of which I am aware, ending the weighting of VP by SP, I don't expect Steemit to make this happen, precisely because that centralization is a feature I believe the devs wanted, rather than a flaw or bug.
A point I try to drive home is that Steemit is currently the sole platform in it's space, but that is very temporary. In fact I have direct knowledge of Calibrae, and am told of other forks of the platform that are being developed presently.
If Steemit doesn't fix these problems, then competition will.
Is that a Tardigrade (a water bear) in your avatar? Very cool if so!
Followed for more rabble rousing and criticism, which you seem to provide. Thanks for that!
In light of very recent responses here - I am rethinking reposting.
If Steemit truly is flawed at its core as suggested then the logical progression is to become the competition... Thats how I work (I'm used to providing suggestions - but only to those in whom I have confidence).
Do not worry though. I've already proceeded with the rewrite (its not quite quarter-done as I started earlier this evening and will likely take breaks to ensure a continuous stream here) - and would be happy to communicate with you directly. Look up my LI profile. My contact email is very easy to find. ^_^
Bonus: I've been thinking of alternative currency and political models before such was cool (1995).
I still have no idea about blockchain though - and it seems to be a technology that I'd want to incorporate.
Yes that was all a little random-sounding. :c)
I'm glad you brought up the point that steemit is CURRENTLY the sole platform in it's space. I am the one working on what is not a fork as that would import balances and the problem would persist. What I will be releasing shortly will basically be a steem clone without the premine oligarchy. I was going to improve it more but I feel it's better to be more timely with the release and improve over time than try to perfect an inherently flawed system. Meanwhile, me and my good friend Loki will be working on Calibrae as well as other systems that will improve systems even further. My avatar is a lightning version of a fire breathing walrus but Tardigrades are cool too. I don't post on this chain anymore to not present an attack surface but if you want rabble rousing and criticism read my comments. Good to meet you and if you have any coding or other skills you might be someone we want on one of our many teams for the multiple projects we are creating.
Good question
Let this be an addition.
That is the definition of a Sybil attack... StInc is rife with it... pretty much their business model... I'd be happy to elaborate if you like.