What a huge jump from the NFL to counseling, with everything in between. It seems like counseling is one of those things that always comes by way of something else.

It may be these life experiences that bring you to that place. Well, in fact, I know it does. I am not sure why it is not clear cut, but, honestly, it never is. It was nice to hear that he went back to Virginia Tech to do the substance abuse.

I wish him well in his chosen career.

Awesome podcast! Thank you!

Upped and steemed

!tip