SSRI's and SNRI's are harder to come off than benzodiazepines, opiates and alcohol...in my opinion...a brief story ๐ณ
I like to start this story off by telling everybody that I've been addicted to or either have tried the majority of drugs there are available in this world of ours...I'm 42 years old now and ever since I was a wee child growing up on a commune in western NY I've been fascinated with drugs ...especially psychedelics...I read about them so much from Aldous Huxley's works to Jack Kerouac even though that sounds particularly trendy... Sam Harris accounts always inspired me lately...I did somewhat believe that they held a deeper meaning to life and thought that I would never end up doing hard recreational drugs such as opiates, cocaine, etc...I would take LSD for 90 days straight doubling up everyday thinking I'm being enlightened only to find out that when I stopped for a week I tripped harder on 5 hits let alone 100's...I would fast sometimes for a couple days to eat plenty of psilocybin on an empty stomach with a dried fig so I could encounter the most intense visuals and try to melt into another world of optimism ...mescaline experiences were where I definitely discovered that that there are million more colors in between that of ROY G BIV( red orange green blue indigo violet)...I especially saw those colors in Mexico with my girlfriend later to be my wife in the mountains of Jalisco with natives...some Indians had peyote that had soaked in ricia which is basically Mexican moonshine obviously made from agave...I should mention that these experiences mostly occurred in my teens as I started smoking cannabis at the ripe age of 10...my little brother was 8 when he started...I've eaten " the vine of the dead" ayahuasca in the Andes with people from the Amazon and Quechuan natives at 18000ft in the Corderilla Blanca...anyways these were some wonderful journeys but I never felt completely transcended or felt like I reached a state of eternal bliss...I should also mention that I'm pretty much a militant atheist or better yet an anti theist as the legendary Christopher Hitchens referred himself as...but In fact all it takes is one terrible "trip" and you might not want to ever go back into those vortexes... that's what happened to me eventually eating mushrooms at an amusement park in Darien Lake during the first Further tour from what I remember because it was so awful that it continues to haunt me until today...when u can't move and feel like your dying for an infinite amount of time with everyone noticing that you are literally losing your mind yet the consciousness of noticing it happen turning into a paranoia that creates a sense of awareness that has never left me...when you feel like your heart is going to stop beating at any given moment for an endless amount of time as well happens, I don't think my heart ever beat the same way again because my constant reminders of that specific incident of an indescribable miserable "trip"...mind you I had been to at least 50 Grateful Dead shows in the mid eighties up until Jerry Garcia passed in 1995 and had the time of my life at the majority of those events sometimes by myself even...I didn't even really understand what stress and anxiety meant as I could never relate until that dreadful trip...I could never enjoy weed again until I started to become a drunk then I could deal with the intensity of marijuana ... so eventually my drinking got worse and progressively worse over time...until I felt normal completely wasted on alcohol...you know you are bad when you get pulled over twice in one day drinking an entire handle of vodka in 36 hrs driving from NY to California...in Iowa with dirty hippie long hair I got away by eating a hand full of nuts and fooling him even after sitting in the cop car with him...he gave me a fix it ticket because my front license plate was missing... I told him I was a professor at college which my wife was at the time and was anxious to see my lady plus my dogs...meanwhile later in the day I decided to switch to beer as that would justify my situation until I was pulled over again in Nebraska speeding... I immediately through the beers under some clothing in the backseat and when approached by the officer...he said "you know you're speeding right?"... I said no sir I thought you pulled me over because I don't have a front license plate and told him I got a fix it ticket earlier in the day...I said I was really hungry and tired so I walked away again in the same day...this is absolutely nothing I'm proud of...being an awesome manipulater and liar I suppose can be great if I was an actor but that's not the case...eventually I discovered benzodiazepines and thought that was the real answer to my shyness, reclusiveness, anxiety and panic attacks... I should also state that I abused cocaine for the first time a few months not to long after I had that bad trip which made me actually start having these terrible feelings of panic, anxiety and stress not long after...but Diazepam( Valium) Clonzepam( Klonopin) and Alprozolam( Xanax) made me feel normal again and even better than ever as it improved my self esteem and confidence to engage in life more socially than I ever had...just when you think you finally find something that almost makes everything right of course you start reading about the side effects and the science behind what makes "bennies"work the way they do then understanding how addictive they are makes you second guess the decision you make starting to use them for an extended period of time...unfortunately I didn't do my homework on them as I had in the past with so many other recreational substances...so I start reading more and more and find that there a lot of mixed opinions on long term use but I eventually decided that I didn't want to be addicted to something that most doctors and psychiatrists don't recommend for long term use...I started taking them from friends as I didn't have insurance then and depending on what dr I would've visited in the first place you can be prescribed significant amounts for life or not giving any because of your history with addiction also the opposite depending on once again whatever that Dr's particular idea about what they think is right...completely mind boggling what different Dr's think about the right way to take them is and I admit to this day as well that there is no definitive answer...so I eventually got insurance and decided to see a psychiatrist for the first time but I had a specific plan that I had read from a Dr in the UK that came to be known for the Ashton Manual...she had pioneered benzo equivalency and suggested that one taper extremely slowly to feel comfortable...so this psych that I go to was impressed by my reading up on the topic of withdrawal etc...so we come with a plan that was basically what the Ashton Manual recommended...along with starting to take a SSRI which I believe was Celexa at first...the agreement also included that I don't do any drugs including alcohol and I would be tested weekly to make sure I wasn't using anything which I didn't want to be anyway...everything went well and I got off in six months when it could've been a year according to the taper guidelines...nowadays most doctors will pull patients off in a matter of a few days and give you some gabapentin or something because technically you'll most likely not die but I still don't believe that it should be done that quickly as it is highly uncomfortable with so many different withdrawal symptoms like cold sweats, brain zaps, and anything else you can imagine...I fell into use years later again went to detox and rehab and was shaking for weeks let alone losing more sanity...so in my thirties I was in an awful accident hitting a tree on my snowboard right before an all exclusive trip to ride in Chamonix, France and in Verbier, Switzerland...I broke several ribs, a knee, my thumb and the orbital bones in my face...the maxillofacialist that I saw said that I had 3 bones broken but I was the first case in his 20+ years of practice where the bones were sitting in the right position and so I ultimately didn't need facial surgery but that entire side of my face was completely numb and he said it could remain that way for months or possibly for life...luckily in approximately 6 months all my feelings eventually came back...mean while I was confined to sleeping on a reclined chair for around 3 months due to my ribs healing and the pain that would come from coughing or sneezing ...so this where opiate addiction starts in my life as I was prescribed a significant amount of oxycodone for a few months...now I had messed around with some mild amounts for recreational purposes before but I was completely aware of how physically addictive and I think quite psychological addictive as well...I didn't get hooked on opiates then but as time went on I enjoyed use more and more...it doesn't help when you've beat up your body from almost 30 years of hardcore skateboarding and a couple decades of snowboarding along with it...plus being jumped and having the ass kicked out me several times in the ghetto after moving from a commune to inner city life...so next thing you know I ended up having a deep addiction to opiates that mostly included oxy but whatever is available like Dilaudid( Hydromorphone)...Opanas( oxymorphone)...and of course heroin in any form like black tar, etc...luckily I never started shooting just eating, snorting and smoking otherwise I'm convinced I wouldn't be alive today...now as any junkie knows you can't really die from coming off of opiates just overdosing but as we all know it's not a pleasant experience coming off of them especially cold turkey...puking out of your ass and face at the same time is not generally a fun thing as well as not eating for a week and barely being able to hold down water...went to rehab for this spectacular drug as well...went to Scripps in La Jolla which was a highly acredited facility not knowing that it's mostly 12 step bullshit and you get gabapentin which seems to be prescribed for almost any off label supposed miracle use...when I was in detox there were rich kids getting heroin dropped from beautiful young girls driving Benzes and Beamers...with people engaging in sexual deviance as well...not to inspiring went you really want to get sober, I felt like I was in 5th grade detention so I participated in " chasing the dragon" just because I felt it was a joke at this fine establishment...I confided to the counsellors what had happened before I went into rehab because I truly deep down wanted to get better but ultimately couldn't even finish the program due to spiritual nonsense and a lack of respect from AA visitors who were to righteous for my open mindedness...I can get sober on my own and with support from my friends especially my best friend who happens to be my loving wife...but I still fall in the traps of alcohol, benzo and opiates all to occasionally...once again I've lost a lot of pride on who I am...lost friends...plenty of friends that have also died from these addictions...most folks believe it's a willfull decision to continue to use and there is a lot who say that's a disease as well ...I still can't really make up my mind on that issue but I know that it is a major health problem here in the land of milk and honey...my cravings have never gone away fully for opiates as they make me feel warm inside...hungry instead of nauseous and more motivated to get things accomplished...in the meantime I've been on a handful of different SSRI's and SNRI's for over at least 10 years now...also every other option including Buspar, gabapentin, clonodine, Lyrica(pregbalin), Naltrexone with acomprosate, propanolol( a beta blocker), Ambien etc. etc....so back to my SSRI and SNRI story....Zoloft(sertraline) which I actually remember suggesting to my one and only psych I've ever seen...I had read that drug helped better with social phobias and anxiety along with panic attacks...it seemed to work although I was taking more than the FDA recommended amount at one time which I thought was silly...eventually realizing myself I only probably needed 50 mg instead of 250 mg...your sex life starts to suffer as many who take these types can testify to so I decided to throw in some Wellbutrin due to it having some of the opposite effects like weight loss instead of weight gain , more energy instead of lethargy plus better sexual side effects...my Dr seemed to think that it was causing me mania although I didn't feel that way...then he recommended me switching to Paxil(paroxitine ) as he thought it would be better for my overall anxiety and social interactions...it seemed not much different than Zoloft but I started getting so somber, unmotivated and gaining weight like never before... I all of sudden realized I was 180 lbs after being around 155 almost all my life granted I'm getting older and my metabolism is slowing down but I generally have always ate well and get plenty of exercise...that was until several months ago when my psych suggested I switch to Cymbalta (duloxitine)...this where living hell starts setting in...it didn't feel right from the beginning and so what does my dr suggest...take more!... I go back as soon as I can and tell him that this medicine is definitely not working accordingly but blames me on taking a benzo here and there and having some drinks which I felt was making those habits way worse again due from this awful SNRI...so I go back ASAP and because I told him I'm going nuts starting to drink heavily again so he says to completely stop when I'm taking the highest recommended dosage...cold fucking turkey...this is where I start losing my mind more than ever experiencing every symptom possible...brain zaps that r like lightning in your head, cold sweats, severe nausea, chronic diarrhea that lasted for a month, severe dehydration , panic attacks, major anxiety and stress...can't eat...start puking several times a day which was bile and dry heaves more than anything as I was having difficulty keeping water down...my hair was turning grey overnight and my face started burning causing some sort of dermatitis which I've never had plus a white tongue and having trouble even swallowing my saliva...so I go to the ER more than 6 times in a few weeks which seemed like an eternity...because I live in a rural town that is noted for tourism and people generally break bones here from the ski resort there are great surgeons but no psychiatrists anymore in town...I see the one via telemedicine now...when I went to the ER and explained my situation in vivid detail they just treat me as addict and gave me Librium a few times that helped somewhat...the worst part is I've become angry for whatever reason and punched in a window then pulled knives on some people at our skatepark because they were BMXing in a park that I poured thousands of dollars in and spent a lot of time volunteering time building the park , raising $ for the park which is a memorial park from a mother who lost her son... So I'm super passionate about taking care of the place and I've been in several verbal altercations with people disrespecting the park by destroying it with bicycles that have pegs that ruin the concrete but have never hurt anyone and I didn't hurt anybody when I pulled a knife out on a few guys...but that is not my normal behavior ...basically since coming off Cymbalta I've been going just insane...I feel like my Dr has treated me like a Guinea pig lately and don't exactly know who I a anymore...am I bipolar?... am I ADHD?...am I this or that?...and I've been looking deeper into myself more than ever but reading about all of these mental illnesses doesn't exactly help because I start thinking like every drug commercial out there...are u tired?...are you exhausted?...do you have pain?...nerve pain?...fibromyalgia?...the list goes on an on and you tend to feel like I have a little bit of everything...so now I'm a true hypochondriac that has hypomania and severe insomnia...the only things that keep me going lately are the support of my amazing wife, my brother who has similar problems and friends that are willing to listen to my shit...your best friends and loved ones should call you out on your shit but sometimes people just can't understand and digest what your truly going through... I know what's good for me like eating right, exercising, skateboarding, music and the arts but I've been having so much trouble with motivation and determination to participate in the activitities that I love and to even eat right...I feel hopeless, selfless, and like I'm letting everybody down...I've lost my job again and have possibly lost the love of my life my wife although she continues to sincerely care for me as a friend I'm not sure I'll ever have her true love for me anymore and I understand because she has taken great lengths of time trying to understand and yet works her ass off in her occupation and every other aspect of life... It's been difficult on everyone I know and that just makes things worse on myself...I'm hopefully going to go to a hospital soon that has several psychiatrists and addiction specialists and maybe get a chance on being properly diagnosed for the first time... I meant for this post to be rather brief but since I can't sleep I continued to write for a few hours ... I apologize for randomingly jumping from different topic to topic tosomething that isn't making any sense but my mind is not running properly and confusion, distraction, and not being able to focus have become norm lately....... I'd like to send my love to anybody going through any type of pain in the world...like Bob Marley said " Emancipate yourself from mental slavery none but ourselves can free our minds" ... I wish it was that easy๐๐ค๐ท๐ค๐ค๐ณ...now I'm gonna get Emojitionalโค๏ธ๐๐๐๐๐๐๐ถ๐๐๐๐ธ๐พ๐ต๐ฟ๐๐บ๐ป๐๐ธ๐ผ๐ท๐น๐๐๐๐๐๐โ๏ธ๐จ๐งโ๏ธ๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐ ๐๐ถ๐ฝ๐ ๐ฏ๐๐ง๐ฃ๐๐ตโ๏ธ๐ธ๐น๐ฝ๐๐โพ๏ธ๐๐๐๐๐๐๐จ๐น๐ท๐บ๐ค๐ธ๐ป๐ผ๐โฐ๐๐ป๐๐โบ๏ธ๐๐๐๐๐๐ ๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐ธ๐ฑ๐ฅ๐ฟโ ๐๐๐ช๐ซโฐ๐ฟโค๏ธ๐โฎ๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐โโโ๐ผโ๐ผโ๐พโ๐ฟ๐ด๐ด๐ค๐ค๐๐ณ๐ณ๐๐๐๐and finally cause there is no SK8er emoji.... O(-<]: Peace and love
Sounds like you have had a difficult, but also interesting journey. I was curious why you were so down, even aggressive, on me and my post yesterday, regarding niacin. With all you have taken I am surprised you don't think there might be a nutrient issue. I'm not sure why you concluded that because I'm an advocate of niacin I am also religious. Seemed like a strange jump. I hope the medication road you seem to be choosing works for you and the best of luck.
Sicerely appreciate it...I'm not a total skeptic of niacin...I take a lot of high quality vitamins...eat mostly organic food and free range meats along with a lot of salmon that I have shipped from Alaska...I believe B12 is extremely important as well and taking the dissolved type I believe is more effective ...in Mexico it's pretty common to have B12 shots...sometimes there will be 33,000% of B12 in certain multi vitamins so I think the bioavailability isn't that great... I just don't think that there is a definitive answer for most mental illnesses and everybody's different so what works for some sometimes doesn't have much of an effect...I totally believe that pharmaceuticals are totally overprescribed but I do also that saved lives for many folks as well...and I'm not totally against alternative medicines as well...although when my mothers breaststroke cancer cam e back years later and had metastacised... We took traditional routes but then decided to do cell injections in other countries, clinical trails,etc... we sold our house and had an auction of all of our valuables to get $ to these types of things ...she ended up spending a 100 grand on a Deepak Chopra type doctor in Toronto that was basically running scam treatments...he had aid dice in La Jolla as well...sure enough a few years after she passed he was charged with distributing massive amounts of oxy and fraud for fake cell injections and was sent to prison...I'm not for Capitol punishment but I wish I could of sued the crook...holistic medicine is is complete skeptical as nothing ever passes double blind procedures...to this day getting outside for some exercise and eating well are the 2 best medicines along with being able to talk about it to friend and family plus Dr's...I feel like mental illnesses are absolutely difficult to properly diagnos...I've tried so many different avenues such as biofeedback but like I said in my story I haven't had opportunities yet to go to other facilities and get different opinions from psychiatrists and addiction specialists...AA or NA can be an excellent programs that have incredible results...my dad has been in for almost 30 years but I'm not a fan of th 12 step program...not just for religious reasons but more the righteous attitudes that a lot of the have and the countless dry drunks who definitely benefit from medicine or CBT and alternative treatments as well ...I've read the big book at least 5+ times and there's an Agonostic section but my favorite part is the Navajo ladies that ends up helping folks out on the reservations...I apologize for being combative and maybe aggressive...but argument is basically constructive criticism ...I'm not saying niacin can't benefit some people but it's obviously not a cure for everything...I've read about the benefits somewhat and I'm sure you know a lot more about it than I do...it just seemed like you had more faith in alternative treatments than proven traditional medicine...I grew up around a lot of spiritual nonsense and have a lot of friends that prefer the natural healing routes...but when people generally get really sick they go to the doctor...take antibiotics...the being nut jobs out there these days are the anti vaccine advocates...apparently they forgot about he Spanish flu pandemic that killed between 50 million and 100 million probably more because 3rd world countries can never get proper statistics ...this event was less than a hundred years ago...we've practically eradicated polio but then you have these crazy Jihadists that won't get the vaccines for wacko beliefs or distrust in the government which I can understand as we've robbed the majority off the world for natural resources,etc...although the Extreme Muslim jihadists jus want everyone dead as their particular religion is the right one...now we have these right wing conspiracy theory folks in Southern California especially in Orange County that don't want their kids to have them for "liberty" reasons...we should send them all to an island and let them figure it out naturally because your putting other people in danger and setting an extremely dangerous precedent...anyways thank you for the time to read my story and wishing me the best... I don't know your relgious beliefs but I prefer not be prayed for and I get very offended when people try and push their beliefs on me...organized religion is nonsense and I will never change my views even on my death bed... in fact I don't even have a true view... I just think that science and voices of reason is where are morals come from along with literature, music and the arts...until one miracle is proven or ghosts are really seen and people realizing that supposed humanitarians like Mother Teresa actually notice that she was a fraud, a fanatic, took money from a Haitain dictator that committed mass genocide and taking money from Charles Keating flying around the world in a private jet but yet not believing in birth control, barely giving any basic medical needs to the dying children in her orphanage...it was absolutely disgusting and she herself doubted her faith her entire life and was pretty much Agonostic...and then gets a Nobel peace prize ...she was a hypocrital person that said suffering was a gift from God meanwhile she's living an indulgent rich lifestyle...similar to Donald Trump...take care and I hope the best for your health as well๐ค๐๐บ๐๐๐๐โฎ
I totally agree with a lot of the points you make (seems we're not so dissimilar) and am sorry there are fraudsters in the alternative area, and your mother was personally affected. I agree, most alternatives are a waste of time as I've tried many myself.
However, I would think there must be a correlation between modern toxic exposure and mental, as well as physical, health.
Niacin is only one of many alternative protocols but the best I've personnally experienced.
I agree with you about modern medicine, oftentimes it can be excellent.
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