RE: The Start of the "Real-Anarchy" forum, and your favorite quote
Thank you for the reply.
Under socialism those trades can not exist if there is money involved, which in end effect is just as an voluntary trade as barter, (if we both consent)....If you do, and the tyrants/masters/a big group of people with another opinion, finds out you get punished. If you do not obey...and keep resisting you're dead, make no mistake.
Boss worker employee employer ....all labels to divide and conquer. There is only voluntary trade If something is not voluntary it's violence, theft, fraud rape..archating...etc.
If I have the property I worked for, or build, and I defend that against thief's I don't hold the monopoly on violence....no way. What I do hold is the right to defend, which has nothing to do with violence. I would define it as defensive force as a reaction to the initiation of violence.
"Boss worker employee employer ....all labels to divide and conquer. There is only voluntary trade If something is not voluntary it's violence, theft, fraud rape..archating...etc."
private ownership of the means of production is not voluntary.
The means of production are built by the workers, upkept by the workers, and labored on by the workers. This is true under every economic system. The difference between socialism and capitalism is that under socialism the workers also control it, while under capitalism it is an outside entity.
The basis of capitalism is that outside divide and conquer tactic.
Can a human be a "means of production" since you can dig a whole with a shovel, a spoon, but you can also use your hands? Being the means of production yourself.
Can someone or the community force you to dig with your hands if someone/group/computer algorithm deems that necessary for society? (Since one does not own oneself in that theory)
"Can someone or the community force you to dig with your hands if someone/group/computer algorithm deems that necessary for society? (Since one does not own oneself in that theory)"
anybody with more powerful violence can force you to do literally anything, that's a stupid argument on every level.
"Can a human be a "means of production" since you can dig a whole with a shovel, a spoon, but you can also use your hands? Being the means of production yourself."
definitions are subjective, the means of production are whatever the local union says they are.
Here is the wikipedia, which holds the most common definition, you might as well start there
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Means_of_production
It's not a stupid argument on every level.
Maybe I phrased it in the wrong way.
If you say
then that local union can use violence to make you do things, because the local union with all it's subjectiveness can say it's good to kill a person that does not what the union does.
There is no higher intelligence to be found in the thoughts of a group.
And so according to your philosophy, to make someone the means of production if "the union" says it's for the good of "the union" through violence is very well possible, and most likely the outcome.
Thank you for the link... but to be honest, why would I want to look at the subjective definition that seems to be, according to you, most commonly held, it is still subjective. If we can not know anything or can not define things because everything is subjective than we can not convey anything. It's all pointless.
Then saying that one knows something, is always a lie. And everything is invalid. Then and there the possibility for all communication stop and there can be no relating to anything or any one.
Thanks for the reply
P.S. I will look at the wikipedia link anyway. Have a nice day :)