My though about ICO and token sales

in #cryptocurrency7 years ago

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In past weeks, china started to issue warning about legality of ICO and exchange, and price got affected by this, which for me is not really surprising, and i'm pretty sure if people who buy those coin knew that the projects were legit, and would have no problem to fit tax and financial regulation the price would not have moved that much, but most of the time people don't even know what they are buying in, and i've been working on many projects before involving internal tokens for real use case, and worked on many e commerce platform too, to see where blockchain can have huge interest, and why most ICO and token sales are very weird model.

Already we were already working on such model based on internal token for managing micro paiment on platform, but one of the condition for this to be really workable, is that token are seen as unit of value, not as speculative assets, and the two functions are totally different from each others.

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The model was more about consumer buy tokens at fixed price, and they can only buy it through the platform, and the platform will garantee that they can trade those token for goods or product of a fixed worth, and that merchant or content producer who get those token can always get the same price out of it. If the platform sell 1 token for 1 dollar, to have easily micro transaction on the platform, then the merchant who sell good for 1 token must always be able to get 1 dollar back from it. Making this token in the same time unit of value for commerce and speculative asset with high volatility always seems nut to me.

Beside this, to be really usefull for e commerce, it needs a bit more than just anonymous transaction, as paypal did with a specific interface for merchant and consumer, where merchant can register some items, within a particular category, registered with a company name, and transaction to merchant can only happen through the buying of such items. Which make the system easily compliant with basics of accountability, taxes filling, as all transaction are also marked with a specific case, either it's a consumer buying an item, or any other operation containing meta information of what the transaction is about.

It's completely necessary to me to have a system like this to mark sales item, and having minimum of system of bills, to know what transaction are about, to know which country the transaction comes from, in order to make accountability, fill taxes and all this regarding the status of each party and the nature of the transaction.

And still all this can mostly happen via token if there is a fixed controlled value for the token, and that all transaction involving the token are associated with registered entities with a clear purpose.

Even just before the ICO craze started up, a friend of mine was already thinking about doing token pre sales , but no serious investor or buisness person we knew of would buy the idea to sell token with nothing behind, which give no legal garantee of anything, without having any platform already running with a clear framework on what one can get against those token, like just buying token like this as pre sales, with no garantee of the value of it backed by anything, no platform to exchange those token against anything with a clear value, and no accounting, seemed quite crazy for all of them.

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Now it seem everyone find this normal to buy token and pour million in token sales, without any kind of legal backing, or any kind of garantee of the price, or without even a platform being built in order to have an idea of the use of those token, but really this has nothing normal at all, and it's completely predicticle that all legal entities will frown on the idea, because it clearly open the door to all kind of pure scam, and it's clearly what is happening all over the place, with millions being lost in those stuff.

Even considering those token as shares is really moot, because normally shares values are indexed to the company capital, with the idea that shares represent a fraction of he company capital value, and one always know what the share is worth because there is clear accountability on the income and expanse of the company, and even if it's normal that share value will decrease in a first time because the capital is used to pay the team, but those expanse are always clealy targeted to build something that will actually make income, and then rise the share value back, with clear study of cash flow, and supposed expanse / income plan, which is completely absent from most ico.

So even if those toekn are considered purely as share, and not as currency/utility tokens to be exchanged for a service or a good at fixed price to other entities who accept this paiment in token because it's always backed at a fixed price by the operators of the token, it's still very moot, because there is no accountability on how the invested money that is supposed to back the value of the those token as shares are managed, and so the value of token as shares is very moot.

To me it seem most ICO operators are not even very clear themselves on if the token is really a share into a capital, if it's utility/currency token to be exchanged for service or good at fixed price, and more play like schrodinger cat, being a bit both at the same time to win on all sides from speculative value, and utility value, without clarifying any of the use in any manner, just implying that it can both be rising up for investor, and both being useable as utility token for digitial economy, without laying out much of how this is all supposed to work, outside of people selling token at higher price to other speculator, which sound very much like a pyramid scheme or ponzi in my book, more than anything else.

With all this being said, i don't even get why people are surprised that regulation entity frown on the model, and why warning are issued from all competent regulation entities, because the models are very weird, and clearly open the door to many plain scam and ponzi, and it's hard to see how toke issued like this could be reglo either as share or actual token on a platform to be exchanged for services or good to service provider at fixed price.

Most people i see talking about ICO all seem to be in this whole craze of the token will go up, by vaguely mentioning utility value in very vague term, not having any kind of control on anything, and without they can exactly tell where the value will come from, or in which case of utility it can actually make income, and how that will impact the price of the token as a share, and all into this hyped out feeling they are part of some thing that can only go up, which for me look very similar to how people get caught in ponzi or scams, being all hyped out by some kind of campaign and babble about huge return, without having much backing or rationale to back up on how this price will evolve, why how and when.

I'm not saying ICO are entierely a bad model, but most operators i see are clearly lacking clarity on many things, and exploit all the vague and blur on the purpose of the token, and how the value is actually backed , which should be already warning sign for investor that it's quite fishy thing, and should really question where the actual value of the token rise will actually come from, and i really don't see lot of sound answer to this, and no wonder why the price can just crash easily if no one can really answer this sort of question in a sound manner.

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ICOs are not backed by anything apart from a promise from the issuer. That's why they are so easy to make money from. Any company simply creates a token, has an ICO and rakes in millions. Buyers need to be really careful in this space

Especially if this token is to be used as currency, or for paiment, it seems very hard to make it works for merchant with such kind of premise on the value of the token.

As long as there is money invested, this money should be used to back the value a minimum no ?

Or at least have accountability to track how much money actually back the token.

The Monet is used to develop the product (in theory). If the product fails, the money is gone!

Yes its what is supposed to be, but then the token price should be indexed on the investment capital, and decrease with the expanse, but still being backed as much as possible with the capital value.

And still its never very clear if the token is currency to pay for service, or speculative asset backed by capital, and how the value is indexed. And even how share-token holder are supposed to get profits if the product is successfull, and how the token based paiment platform being used is connected to value of the coin.

All seems very shady to me lol

It all looks more ponzi like that share holder expect other investor to buy the share-token at higher price, without having clear backing of the price neither for merchant that accept the token as paiment or for investors to monitor the value of the token related to supposed project success.

I agree many ICO's are shady and a lot will end with people losing their money. Its not a Ponzi, but people are definitely using the greater fool theory, expecting a greater fool will pay more than they did for the asset.

Yes greater fool theory seem more accurate than ponzi, but its even borderline pyramid scheme, where first level issuers sell the token at a certain price to intermediary who will sell it at higher price, and lot of the value seem to be based on such scheme.

There is no principle worth the name if it is not wholly good.

- Mahatma Gandhi

This is quite interesting, how are values of some of these ICO's backed? Real Due diligence must be made by all potential investors prior to investing. In part this is the beauty of ICO's. As the saying goes Do Your Own Research. Therein lies all the fun in crypto's.

I would say even with due dilligence, if there is no clear guideline and accountability , it still calls for things going south, no matter who is behind the project.

This lack of clarity and accountability behind those scheme is still disturbing to me lol

And how much people are confident in the future value of tokens with nothing to back them up.

Its the beauty as long as everything keep going up, and the nightmare when things start to go south ..

And it seems very hard to know where the project/company is between beauty of magically going up, and crashing down as brutally.

When merchant are to be paid with a token, they dont want to be paid with a speculative asset as a pseudo share in a shady company, because they have true accountability to hold.

If there is no backing of the value, it worth close to nothing as a currency for merchants.

Normally the backing should not be too hard to provide with clear accountability on the buying and selling of tokens, as all the dollars in to buy the token should be used to back the value, but i dont see much ico providing even this.

you have just described the beauty...lol...nothing in life is certain but death...what you are looking for sir is certainty and guarantee...i suppose it will be a matter of time before these crypto's offer it but until then...be safe, peace and experience history in the making..

Not certainty and garantee, but at least some amount of clarity in accountability, and minimum of perspective and planning ..

Otherwise i dont see any use of blockchain if the price cannot be garanteed a minimum, neither for merchants or users who are not pseudo trader in greater fool game.

Well we prepared an ico last year, but since the beginning i was not fond of the idea, especially with the guy i was doing it with, it could only go south.

Even escrow and all they are far from being really serious lol

Ive been into startup before, with true share holding agreements, investors etc, even with things being well defined with good perspective, its already hard to really balance cash flow, with ico i really have hard time to see how token could gain in value that much with honnest methods of real economy.

I could maybe do an ico soon, im still preparing my system of distributed app, i will soon have good project running i guess, but we thought about all this in depth last year with lawyer and people used to investment, boss of software company etc, i really dont see how ico can turn to something really serious and sound lol

Even if the project take off, i dont see how coin value can be connected in any sound way with company success, even steem is good example of this, its rather successfull project, we dont see the coin pruce skyrocketting either, and i dont see any reason why it would actually ..

I really have hard time to see how to make this work in a way that investor can get fair benefits from success, and keeping things as clear and legal as possible, and i dont see how ico can get there.

Its not like stock options or share where there is a real legal pegging of the value to something tangibly related to project success and accountability, neither like currency or actual tokens where the value is backed to a minimum safe value.

Its not about certainty but at least legality, honnesty and good fundation for a project, where progress expanse and income can be controlled a minimum with a set direction, even if result are never certain.

And if there is already no order and garantee set at the early stage, it will rarely improve latter ..

Even with the case where a fraction of the total supply is issued in the ICO to pay the team, then this part of the coins that are used as investment in share holding should be set appart from the rest of token used for then functioning of the platform that use the token as a currency, and the token sold as share in the ico backed with the investment money with accountability, even if the rest of the coin are to be exchanged to users to make transaction on the platform.

Otherwise its very blurred what the people being paid with the token seen as a currency are actualky paid with ..

Is it a unit of value for micro transaction, a share backed by capital, or just whatever price will be available on exchange at the time they get the actual paiment.

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