Being a Trailblazer Ain’t Easy

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Everyone who is in any way related to the world of cryptocurrencies is a trailblazer by default. Just like the first people to own cars, the first people to use internet, and now cryptocurrency users, we are met with an (un)fair amount of suspicion, confusion, prosecution, slander, interest, and all sorts of things, which not many are positive. When ever I have mentioned that I even have a fraction of Bitcoin, the reaction hardly even is positive. But don't worry, I don't hang out with people like that much. They can go to trash and weep in ten years when they have missed the boat and owe their life to the bank (government).

Everyone knows that Finland has very high taxes, and while nobody of course wants to pay them, we have to so that we can have the "free" education, "free" healthcare and all around safe society to live in. I'm fine with that, though I'm not fine with funding someone who doesn't want to work themselves and other people pay high taxes to support their life. I'm very much a capitalist in that sense.

What pisses me off is that if I was a lazy leftist asshole, I would for one, make A LOT more money than I do with blogging, and I wouldn't have to do ANYTHING. I could lay on the sofa, drink beer, watch Netflix and get something like 1200€/month from the government. Fun times. Okay, I would occasionally have to try and get a job, fail on the interview and then return to the sofa, maybe every once in a while fill out a new form online so that the money keeps coming in without me having to work.

Instead, I try and make due in this new world of cryptocurrency, pay my bills and pay my taxes like the good girl I am, working every day of the year. And let me tell ya, it ain't easy, especially the tax paying part because nobody seems to have a fucking clue about it.

During the time that I have been in any way involved in cryptocurrency world, the taxation law about cryptocurrencies has changes twice, the resent (and most reasonable one) was just last week, so there are three different versions and I'm not sure which one to follow and for what time frame, and not only that, there is of course not only one way of making money with cryptos, so that is a challenge too.

There is information about how to file your taxes if you earn by blogging, with paid sponsorships, brand gifts, ads and paid trips, and how you can write off something like buying a camera or transportations costs. Then there are the guidelines for people who mine cryptos, and then a separate guide for those who invest and trade. What I do is basically a mix of all of those, so it's really fucking confusing. To my knowledge, the tax office isn't even aware that it's a possibility to earn cryptocurrencies by blogging, so there are no definite, straightforward guides for that that I could follow.

I seem to be the only one in Finland who is currently earning cryptocurrencies by blogging. There are of course other Finnish people in here, but to my knowledge, they haven't sold anything or traded, so I don't think they have had to deal with these issues related to taxation yet.

It also doesn't help that I earn two different currencies here, their value in fiat changes every second, I get a lot of tiny earnings during the course of 24 hours. I can't even buy anything with them, I have to trade it to Bitcoin first, which I can't use for anything either, and I gotta sell that shit for fiat before there is anything to show for it. What a fucking mess. I really wish for the day when I don't have to do any of the extra nonsense and I can pay for my groceries in Steem. One can dream.

I've been on the phone all morning to try and get a hold of someone in the Finnish tax office that is a professional on the taxation of cryptocurrencies. I'm pretty sure there is like one person who knows anything about it and he might be a bit busy. I've talked to three different people in the course of a month and they just keep reading to me from their website because they don't know anything more than I do. The jingle that plays when you wait to get through to someone on the tax office is really starting to get on my nerves, and so it the fact that I had to turn off the silent mode on my phone so I will have some change of answering the phone if they ever call me back.

I don't want to sound like I'm laying blame on anyone in the tax office or the law makers in Finland, because they can't be blamed for something they don't have enough knowledge of and with the rapidly advancing technology, it's a cat and mouse of both the users of cryptocurrencies and the law makers, one making a move and other one having to catch up. And to give a little credit to the people I have managed to get a call through in the tax office, everyone has been very very helpful, even though they have hardly even heard of Bitcoin.

Adulting sucks and I don't wanna do it anymore! It would be so much easier to be a normal slave labourer in the kitchen like I used to be.



I have a month to file my taxes for last year and I intend to make someone blush in the tax office before that by telling them I make cryptos by showing my boobs on the blockchain and I don't know how to file my taxes for that.


Disclaimer: I am not an expert in cryptocurrencies, law, or taxation, so nothing I say here should be used as the truth or as a guideline on how to report your crypto gains (or losses) to the tax officers. I am in the process of finding all that out, but I am sure the law will keep on changing in the years to come and it's going to be really hard for a long time before everything settles to something reasonable.

Ps. I also suck at math.

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My question is why you are trying so hard to pay taxes. Technically I should probably declare crypto to the government as it has value but there are no specific laws on it yet and I pay too much tax already from my regular job. Money that gets burned by the government on a daily basis.

You've tried. Well done, but why so much effort. You have covered yourself going forward with the paperwork and phone calls if you document it. If they can't tell you then how are you suppose to know what to do.

From my side I will be avoiding this for as long as possible. Once it's not going into my bank account they don't know anything about it for now. By the time I want to sell any it will be going to bitcoin and used on a card so it will never hit my irish accounts.

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ööööö because they can put me in jail if I don't pay my taxes. In Finland they can check bank accounts and everything if they suspect someone isn't paying their taxes. And I want to make sure they don't just start sending me some insane 20 000 euro bills because they don't know the actual numbers nor how this should be taxed in a fair manner. Do I wanna give the government money, ahh, hell no, do I have to, yes.

If I just have to tell what I have sold into fiat, then it's super easy, that was the law earlier, but they have changed the rules so now I have no idea how to report this shit.

Finland is tough. I think they were the country that jailed half the bankers back in the day as well weren't they. The ones during the market crash? Our country isn't half as good when it comes to that.
I would actually be surprised if we Brough in crypto regulations in the next 5 years and tax evasion would be a slap on the wrist.

Our bankers almost collapsed the whole country with the things they did and I think one person got jail.

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Okay, I would occasionally have to try and get a job, fail on the interview and then return to the sofa,

Hahahaha. hahahahaha. That's hard work that. 😂 . The hobos have it hard over there. Here, they don't need to get out of the sofa at all. The interviewer can come to your sofa.


Luckily I don't have to worry about tax yet. I've made a net loss in crypto so far 😂😂

I’ve made a net loss too but now that I don’t know what is taxable and what is not then I might be drowning in some insane taxes soon

It's pretty much the same everywhere at the moment I think! Technically I'm not even sure you HAVE to pay income tax on Crypto earnings here in the UK, we declared it just to be safe but I'm sure plenty of people don't and I can't blame them at all!

I seem to be the only one in Finland who is currently earning cryptocurrencies by blogging. There are of course other Finnish people in here, but to my knowledge, they haven't sold anything or traded, so I don't think they have had to deal with these issues related to taxation yet.

Cashing out has nothing to do with it. If you work for your STEEM, SBD and SP, then they are earned income ("muu ansiotulo") and they are become taxable income at the moment you gain possession of them. Theoretically, they are valued at the moment you gain possession of them but because there are so many events, it's unreasonable to expect anyone to check the price of each of the coin on Coinmarketcap (for instance) to determine what precisely they are worth in euros at the precise moment of gaining possession of them.

There is a handy tool to group your STEEM, SBD and SP income inluding both curation and author rewards on a monthly basis at: https://steemit.accusta.tk/

It says on the front page that you get them on a weekly basis, too, but I didn't find that functionality on it any longer. If you go to coinmarketcap.com, you can easily calculate the monthly average prices of STEEM and SBD. It is reasonably accurate to treat SP as equal to STEEM.

These are the best tools available that I know of for calculating the fiat value of your Steem income. The result will be close enough and the tax administration will not be able to calculate them any more precisely than that. You can always say that the day-to-day fluctuations in the price of STEEM and SBD are so large and random that a solution using averages like this is as good as it gets.

Oh, and if you have bought any votes (I know you have as you have used @ocdb), my personal opinion is that you can deduct what you have paid for the votes from your income because the quantitative relationship between a payment for a vote and the vote is quite straightforward and completely algorithmic. Theoretically, if you treat payments for votes as expenses deductible from your earned income, you might run into the problem of €750 deduced (tulonhankkimisvähennys) by default. But, IMO, this is nothing like buying a camera for a professional photographer, for instance. You pay @ocdb x and you get a certain predetermined percentage of the maximum upvote usually after less than 24 hours. Different thing.

There are some high-earning Steemians who have powered up everything despite the extremely high price of STEEM last spring and the prices cratering since. Those people have managed to rack up such a high tax bill that they will now face not reporting their Steem income at all or paying tens of thousands of $$$ or €€€ in taxes. It's actually a pretty horrible situation. I have no trouble paying what I have calculated I owe but I'm actually a bit worried about some other people.

It is not reasonable or fair to pay taxes for let’s say steem at 4€, if you sell it a year later at 0,4€. And according to one of the phone calls, it isn’t so, it is then counted as a loss at point, according to the new law. The tax pages say that it’s only when you trade or sell when the amount is counted into either as a gain or a loss, counting the difference for when you gained said coin, no matter how you got it to your possession. But further info is still needed. Thanks for the link, I’ll be definitely using it to keep track.

Let's say you have earned 10 STEEM on May 1 2018 and the price of STEEM is €4 on that day. Your earnings will be €40 that day. That is the sum you should pay earned income tax on.

Capital gains tax is something different altogether. If the value of that 10 STEEM drops to a tenth and you sell it, then you will not have to pay any capital gains tax on any gains because there are none. Instead, you can declare a loss. But if the price of STEEM were €5 when you sold your STEEM, you would have made (€5-€4)*10 = €10 in capital gains, which are taxed at 30% (if less than €30,000 in a tax year) or at 34% (otherwise).

So, if you were so lucky as to have your earned STEEM, SBD, SP appreciate after having gained in value during your possession of them, then you'd owe BOTH earned income tax on their value at gaining possession of them AND capital gains tax on the appreciation between gaining possession of them and selling them for fiat, exchanging them for other cryptos or goods or services.

Now, it could be that some official you've talked to does not understand how cryptos are supposed to be taxed in according to the guidelines published by the Tax Administration itself. In that case, you may count your blessings and hope that they will not get back to your case later, which I think they won't because they're busy with other stuff. :)

If you earn stocks as part of your salary, they are taxed similarly. Their value at the point you gain possession of them is considered taxable earned income and any realized appreciation is considered capital gains or any realized depreciation is considered a loss deductible from your capital gains. What corporations that pay a part of their employee's salaries in stocks or options or something like that do, is automatically liquidate a portion of the assets and withhold the money in order to pay the Tax Administration on the employer's behalf. Steem is nobody's employer. It's not even a legal person and has no such duties even if it were under our jurisdiction. Therefore, it is the responsibility of each Steemian themselves to see to it that they have the cash available to pay their taxes at the end of the tax year.

I do not believe and will refuse to pay taxes on money that is not even real and I can't buy anything with it. The moment they start accepting my steems at the supermarket, then I can pay taxes according to the price steem is at the moment I earn it. Otherwise it really is super unfair, especially so when they keep changing the laws all the time. It is written in our law, that we can trust the system to not change rules every which way when ever they want to, but everyone needs to be let know well in advance if something like that is happening. When I started, all I knew was that what ever is changes into euros, you pay taxes for that, which made sense, other than the fact that you couldn't count out the money you invested in originally.

Edit: Esim tossa aika hyvä blogipostaus aiheesta: https://www.konsensusry.fi/fi/blog/muista-tama-verohallinnon-2018-ohje-virtuaalivaluuttojen-verotukseen-ei-koske-verovuotta-2018-tai-sita-aikaisempia-verovuosia

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awee hell thats not confusing at all...

It's not so difficult. Especially if you cash out as you earn, you'll just have to put enough aside to cover your tax obligations. The tool I gave a link to outputs a record of your earned STEEM, SBD and SP on a monthly (or weekly) basis, which makes it possible to track them accurately enough for tax purposes.

I can imagine this is really stressful and a pain in the ass. But look at it from the bright side, they might make a special law based on you as you are the first one in Finland who manages to make a living on steemit! Quite an achievement, don't you think? :)

In Canada, the accounting is equally difficult.

Using steem as an example, you need to convert steem to BTC or ETH then to $USD then to $CDN from the moment you receive curation/author rewards. (Since it's a blockchain, that's easy to determine). And, then treat that as an income.

If you invested any $CDN, and cashed out ... You have to keep track of what $CDN you put in and how many steem it was worth, if you are willing to do the math, keep track of all the exchange rates going in AND out. CDN --> USD --> ETH/BTC -->steem --> ETH/BTC -->USD -->CDN. For every transaction. Each transactions are all considered Capital Gains/Losses.

The CRA and IRS both have BlockChain crawlers. So, once they know your address, since it's a blockchain, there's no way to hide whether you have earned/lost money. They'll get you for all they are owed.

The person who writes a crypto income calculator that tracks every block of every crypto so that you can input the steem Block that your Curation/Author reward occurred on and it estimate the income based on crypto/fiat rates at that moment in time would be a lifesaver.

Nothing is wrong with netflix and booze 🤣

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Of course not, but if someone else has to pay for your netflix and booze, then it’s not right.

Fine, I’ll let all my lady friends to stop next month lol

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I don't trust any banks, and that's why I want to get it in coin market... and also steemit.
The most sad thing is this lot not want know USA is bankrupt. And they do it deliberately that they are not let it come out fast.... because they want everyone to be as much involved as possible. And when they all go bankrupt, they can come back again and say how they save everything.

I hope you enjoy a warm day's, here is very warm.

I opted out of the system. And taxes... Well as much as you can...

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